Interview with Hu Dehua (Third Son of Former General Secretary of the CCP, Hu Yaobang)

Interview. Chief Writer: Venerable Shi Fa Ru

11 July 2026

Hu Dehua:

Namo Amituofo, I am Hu Dehua. I am grateful to Practitioner Su for giving me the opportunity to share my story with the world.

When I first arrived in this place, known as the Western Dharma-Nature Land, it was something I had never imagined. Buddhism itself was a religion I found difficult to approach in my lifetime. For us, the good thing about this religion is its ability to provide soothing to the human heart, provided it does not override the political power. If it cooperates with the political power and those in authority, it is a tool for stabilising the human heart and is considered good; however, if its influence and popularity exceed those of the ruling authorities, possessing a power of appeal greater than that of the rulers, then for us, it becomes a hostile force of resistance.

Under the operational principles of the Communist Party of China, it is not permitted for any religion to exist above the Party. This power to unite people and bring peace to the human heart is, in fact, something the Communist Party has always lacked and found relatively insufficient; therefore, religious censorship of this type has always been quite strict. I grew up influenced by the education of the Communist Party of China, and my attitude towards this religion was the same as what the Party taught me.

However, today, having arrived at the Western Dharma-Nature Land and seeing the incomparably great Namo Amituofo, as well as seeing so many immeasurable and boundless spirits being rescued by Namo Amituofo and brought to the Western Dharma-Nature Land—some even having been sent to the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss—I cannot help but reverse my long-held stance. I feel genuine admiration and gratitude towards Namo Amituofo and Practitioner Su, the founder of the temple.

In truth, without the help of Namo Amituofo and Practitioner Su, I would have had no way to escape the hells. It is quite shameful to say this; I never expected that the end of my life would conclude with me entering the hells.

Of course, for someone like me who had never studied the Buddha’s teachings, entering the hells was a very unfamiliar concept; that is to say, I actually had no ability to judge whether everything I had done was good or bad. I always thought that by operating and acting according to the philosophy of my life, I was doing the right thing, but now it seems that I was indeed wrong to an outrageous degree.

The reason I can state this so definitively now is that it was only after I arrived at the Western Dharma-Nature Land that I began to learn the true Buddhist education, knowing what things in a person's life can be done and what things should not be done. This is an education I had never received in my life.

After all, the goals of this life emphasised by the Buddha’s teachings are vastly different from the educational goals I received while I was in the world.

When I was in the world, basically, as long as one attained a certain level of wealth, status, and power, it was considered a very successful approach by the people of the world. However, for the Buddha’s teachings, this is not the case.

For the Buddha’s teachings, wealth, status, fame, and power—indicators that worldly people consider successful—are all transient and not ultimate; they are even harmful indicators that cause one's spirits to regress rather than progress. The harm they cause to the spirits comes from the fact that they make it impossible for one to see the truth of the spiritual world, leading one to commit acts that harm their own spirits for the sake of transient illusions that the soul cannot use.

For a spirit that should have been selfless and considerate of others, the pursuit and misunderstanding of these worldly things eventually distorted its own spirit and character. This is a great pollution to the spirit. In the process of seeking wealth, status, fame, and power, every thought and intention is not for oneself, and what is done is not beneficial to oneself, but rather consists of many acts that harm others; these are the karma that must be repaid according to the laws of karma and cause and effect. Once these acts are committed, one must naturally pay the price in the future, and the most direct impact is that after withering and death, one will enter the hells to undergo punishment. According to the scale and degree of everything one has done and the harm caused to others, one goes to different hells of varying sizes to undergo punishment.

In fact, long before I passed away, many of the spirits within me were already undergoing punishment in the hells, which is why I experienced severe physical decline and difficulty in self-control in my later years. For the average person, this is normal physical ageing, but you may not know that the ageing body at that time reflected the disconnection between the spirit and the body. I was unable to fully control this body; the immeasurable and boundless spirits and karmic creditors awakened within me could wantonly control my behaviour, emotions, and thoughts.

At that time, the words I spoke and the things I did were entirely controlled by them. For me, my spirit was just huddled in a corner within the body; wanting to express myself, wanting to connect with the outside world, or wanting to say a single word was impossible. You can now understand that this is the truth of the spiritual world. For those who do not understand the universal principle or the Buddhist education, the spirit can be said to have been locked deep in the space within the body early on, and it has no ability to escape on its own. As mentioned earlier, when behaviour deviates and must be repaid, this process is the repayment of the sins one has created.

While undergoing punishment, I went to both large and small hells; I went to the heart-gouging, brain-gouging, and intestine-gouging hells. These hells were rotated through for punishment until after I stopped breathing and my true self was released from the body. But because I continued to create karma—karma that required me to go to the hells for punishment—my true self did not have much time to catch its breath. I was quickly taken before the King of Hell for trial, and the result was being sent to the heart-gouging hell to continue undergoing punishment.

This true self continued to undergo punishment in the hells for a considerable amount of time, until one year and six months had passed, when suddenly a golden light shone into the hell space where I belonged. As this golden light shone down, I looked up at this light I had never seen before, feeling very surprised. In this pitch-black, deep hell, why would there be such a bright and warm golden light?

Looking up, before I could think too much, in the next instant I had arrived in a completely different world. Suddenly, the suffering of punishment ceased. Looking around, there were no more of those terrifying ghost messengers or jailers; what met my eyes was a bright, clean, and clear world. In this world, there were no frightening or horrific things, only peace and harmony. What I heard in my ears was no longer the screaming and wailing of spirits undergoing punishment in the hells, but bursts of steady and dignified Buddha's name chanting.

The reason I call it Buddha's name chanting is that, although I did not know what kind of sound it was at the time, my intuition told me that this was the key to saving me from the hells. I listened very carefully to this Buddha-name, and although I could not immediately understand it and chant it, I listened very earnestly, and my heart began to chant along silently. This Buddha-name is the noble and sacred six-character name, "Namo Amituofo".

After listening for a while, I quietly woke up. It turned out that the painful, dark space I was originally in was hell, and the place I am in now is a peaceful and harmonious Buddha-land. Later, I learned that this is a temple located in Australia, called the "Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre in Australia". The space I am currently in is a spiritual space within the temple, called the "Western Dharma-Nature Land"; I never expected that I would come to a Buddhist spiritual space, which surprised me greatly. Of course, at this time, I no longer had the arrogance I had when I was in the world, and any rejection of religion had completely disappeared. After all, having suffered such painful punishment in the hells, as long as I could escape, I would be immensely grateful regardless of the religious belief.

It was only then that I slowly woke up and gained some understanding, and I became very interested—one could even say very curious—to understand what kind of religion this was and why it had such supernatural power to save my spirit from the hells. After listening to the sutras on the Dharma-Nature Land for several days, and seeing the astonishing and shocking scene during the Thrice Yearning Ceremonies, I slowly came to my senses and realised that my spirit had truly been saved by Namo Amituofo and Practitioner Su. The method of salvation was exactly the same as the situation I felt when I was in the hells: Namo Amituofo emitted immense golden light in various spaces, and in an instant, all the spirits were moved as if by teleportation, quickly sent to the Western Dharma-Nature Land. It was only then that I had an "Aha!" moment, realising that this was how I was saved at that time.

This situation and act of saving spirits is called "Chao Du" in the temple. This is a term that sounds somewhat familiar yet strange. In various traditional religious beliefs in China, perhaps I had heard this term in the depths of my memory, but I had never seriously paid attention to its meaning. Because to me, it was a very ridiculous thing; I had never acknowledged the existence of spirits.

I have always sought truth from facts; whether in business or politics, there are certain verifiable laws and processes for discerning the truth. I had a certain degree of understanding of these verification methods, academic studies, and the principles constructed by various schools of thought. The description of Chao Du and the spiritual world, whether approached from the perspective of science, literature, or culture, has always been difficult to explain or prove. But now, I am indeed a spirit, which in itself has largely proven the existence of the spiritual world; if there really is a spiritual world, how could my spirit exist within it?

Because I am a spirit, I can clearly see the operation of the entire spiritual world. On the Dharma-Nature Land, during the Thrice Yearning Ceremonies, the spirits coming from the entire universe and even more distant spaces and worlds are truly immeasurable and boundless. The density of spirits can be said to be denser and finer than air molecules, even more subtle than the distribution of atoms. You can imagine how many spirits are in every breath? They are truly countless.

It is with this density and distribution that so many spirits fill the spaces of the entire universe and the world. They are all unable to escape the spaces in which they are trapped, and they are all spirits waiting to be saved. My situation in the hells at that time was also like this; every spirit in its own space, influenced by attachments and beliefs, suffered different pains and punishments and could not escape. The number was so large that it shocked me; I had never seen such a vast amount of life in my life! Even taking the Earth as an example, the population is only seven or eight billion, but the number and density of spirits can be said to be countless billions upon billions, existing everywhere you reach.

Thinking of so many spiritual lives waiting for rescue in densely packed spaces made me truly realise the truth. The Communist Party of China and the government leaders have worked very hard and very actively to manage China, hoping to let the people enjoy a prosperous and peaceful life; but everyone must understand that even if China's leaders and sages have made great efforts, they can only settle the fourteen billion people of China. Then, how are these vast spiritual lives in countless spaces to be settled? This is a question I had never imagined.

If one truly knows this fact, then in formulating policies and overall planning, these lonely and helpless spirits should become the most important point of national governance. If such a huge number cannot be properly handled and settled, it will inevitably affect the stability of the country.

However, you may think that these are just spirits and there is no urgent need to deal with them. But in fact, the public does not know that most of everyone's behaviour and thoughts are influenced by the spirits within them. These immeasurable and boundless spirits on a person often affect a person's logic of thinking, behaviour, interests, hobbies, and even relationships between people. It can be said that everything is influenced by these spirits.

Therefore, if these spirits cannot be properly settled, and if they cannot be made to have positive, upright, friendly, and selfless thoughts, then the people influenced by these spirits will naturally be unable to achieve selfless behaviour that puts the country first. Everyone will become only concerned with pursuing their own interests, and although these behaviours may seem helpful to oneself, from a macro and long-term perspective, they are a harm to oneself and the country. This is also why many problems and phenomena have emerged in China throughout its long history; it is precisely because immeasurable and boundless spirits have not been properly settled.

Many spirits are still suffering in space, carrying distorted characters, intense selfishness, and even strong hostility towards different forces. The personalities, thoughts, and emotions of these spirits interact within people, naturally causing opposition between people, leading everyone to have different views, highly protecting themselves, and committing many acts that benefit themselves at the expense of others. These are important reasons that affect national development and destroy harmony.

After understanding the operations of the spiritual realms, I truly discovered that everything is related to the spiritual world, and it is a significantly important existence. If one cannot fully study Buddhist education and understand the truth of the spiritual realms, then for those in governance and leadership, many policies are merely treating the symptoms rather than the root cause, failing to resolve the problems arising in various aspects from the source. However, this cannot be blamed on anyone; after all, before entering the spiritual realms, it is indeed difficult to perceive the spiritual world using only the observational capabilities of the physical body.

Even if some people can slightly perceive the existence of the spiritual realms, most of the time they lack comprehensive education to help them effectively learn the true situation of these realms. It was only after I began re-learning everything in the Western Land of Dharma Nature that I truly realised the severity of the problem. Such vast education regarding the spiritual realms, as well as Buddhist education that helps people learn the Universal Principle, the Truth, and the Right Way, cannot be promoted in China. Everyone is unaware of the importance of this education, mistakenly believing it to be a religion—an external force that must be excluded. This is a grave mistake and a great pity.

With the continuous development of technology, China has long become a world power, second to none in scientific and cultural development compared to other nations. However, looking at the world's top scientific and cultural powers, one must ask: have their problems decreased during the process of national operation? They possess advanced scientific technology and profound cultural foundations, yet they have never been able to truly resolve various social and national issues. The fundamental reason is that problems caused by the spiritual realms can never be solved by scientific technology or culture. Without truly understanding the root of the problem, there is no way to address it; even if more sophisticated and advanced technology is developed, it can only touch upon superficial material influences. It has not even touched the surface of the spiritual level, let alone changed any outcomes.

As the birthplace of Buddhism, China has inherited and passed down the Buddha’s teachings for a long time; this is China's true and greatest advantage. Looking at Western countries where scientific technology is advanced, China has also worked hard to catch up and even surpass them, but have there been any significant results? The effect has only been to solve the problems that existed before these technologies, while adding many new problems that arose after possessing them. This is the same as in Western countries: they possess more technology, but they discover even more problems derived from technology and science. These endless, unsolvable problems and social chaos are things China has always had the greatest advantage to resolve, and that is the Buddha’s teachings. However, China has stopped propagating the Buddha’s teachings and researching the spiritual realms for quite some time. Now, it requires reminders from other countries and external sources to reignite the lamp of the Buddha’s teachings that has been extinguished for so long on this land. Yet, China has never truly lost the wisdom and foundation of the Buddha’s teachings; it just needs someone to reawaken the importance of Buddhist education.

This is also true for me. For a long time, no one ever helped me understand the importance of Buddhist education, but once I arrived in the Western Land of Dharma Nature and learned the relevant content, seeing everything in the spiritual realms, I understood instantly. I can also responsibly say: Buddhist education is the education and technology that China needs the most.

In the Land of Dharma Nature, I can clearly see the operation of the human world and the spiritual realms in China. Recent developments in China have gradually improved because Namo Amituofo and Practitioner Su are continuously helping the spirits in the Chinese region, constantly performing Chao Du for them. It is because of this opportunity that I was fortunate enough to receive help from the temple, which led me from hell to the Western Land of Dharma Nature.

The temple is helping China through many methods. In addition to the Chao Du of the spiritual realms, they are also simultaneously setting up many Namo Amituofo billboards within China. These billboards may look like ordinary promotional materials, but in reality, they have a tremendous impact on the spiritual realms. Each billboard is like an emanation of Namo Amituofo, opening a window connected to Namo Amituofo in every corner of the world. These small, square billboards represent a bright channel that connects to Namo Amituofo and the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss.

After seeing the light emitted by the billboards, many wandering souls and helpless spirits in China have the opportunity to come to the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre in Australia to seek Spiritual Deliverance. During my days in the Land of Dharma Nature, I have seen that the number of spirits coming from China is immeasurable and boundless. Even without formal, large-scale promotion, these billboards have already attracted such a massive number of spirits—a quantity hundreds, thousands, or even billions of times greater than China's current population. You can imagine that if the number of spirits is this vast, if these billboards were truly made public and widely distributed, the number of spirits that could benefit would be even more inconceivable. Therefore, in China, if there are many fellow practitioners who are willing to dedicate themselves, as well as lay practitioners, elders, and great Dharma protectors who understand the benefits of the Buddha’s teachings, if you are interested, why not use your ingenuity to see how these billboards can be hung in China? The larger and more numerous the billboards, the more immeasurably vast the number of beings that can be helped.

In fact, as a Chinese person, I feel very proud that China has been able to promote these billboards to such an extent in a short period. As I mentioned earlier, the foundation of the Buddha’s teachings in China is very deep, and everyone's good roots and blessings are very sufficient. Now, all that is missing is a formal source of Dharma to lead the way, and everyone can start quickly. This is the best time to promote these billboards throughout China, which can bring about a different transformation for the world and within China.

If spirits have an outlet and can be saved, they will naturally not remain in their original space suffering, thereby reducing their influence and harm to humans. Such benefits can be said to be for the benefit of both the living and the deceased, and for both the spiritual realms and the human world, it is a most magnificent existence.

Everyone already understands that setting up these billboards is not a worldly advertising act. Although there are countless billboards in the wilderness of China, if one considers it from the perspective of human economic benefits, one might not understand the purpose of hanging them in the wilderness; but this just proves that the operation of the billboards cannot be understood simply from a human or economic perspective, but rather that they truly have the practical effect of performing Chao Du for spirits.

Many Chinese people with sensitive physical constitutions who can feel changes in the magnetic field of space have reported that after the billboards were hung, they could truly feel subtle changes in the local environment. For those who are less sensitive, there is also a feeling of instant release and relief, suddenly feeling the pressure on their bodies lighten. These all reflect that the billboards are effectively and continuously performing Chao Du for the immeasurable, boundless, and densely packed spirits in the area. Those with even more sensitive constitutions can even see the situation of a large number of spirits being saved and the billboards emitting light.

This is not to encourage everyone to pursue signs, but the true benefits and effects of the billboards are indeed very good. At the temple, I see immeasurable and boundless lonely wandering spirits pouring in every day from the wilderness of various provinces in China, too many to count. Therefore, if you have the intention to set up billboards and do your part to help the spiritual beings in your area, this is a very good practice.

I highly encourage and praise the lay practitioners and virtuous ones who are currently promoting Namo Amituofo billboards in China. Because of you, many suffering spirits in China have the opportunity to be saved. These spirits were also once human, once the people of China, and are your flesh-and-blood compatriots. They are just from a different era, having once possessed a body but now having lost it. Although it is a pity, they cannot escape from space and are very helpless. If you can resolve to hang these billboards, you are undoubtedly helping our vast number of compatriots, which is of great help to China's overall development and the promotion of Buddhist education.

In the future, Buddhist education will not only be helpful to the spiritual realms but will also be of supreme benefit to human beings. Chinese people who have come into contact with Buddhist education will understand that the Buddha’s teachings are very important to people. It not only teaches people to spend this meaningful life with the correct character and behaviour but also lets everyone understand the Universal Principle and Ethics and Morality, knowing how to help more people and spirits be reborn in the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss during this precious life.

This is the deep Dharma affinity that Namo Amituofo and Practitioner Su have forged with the vast number of people in China. I believe no one would want to miss such a magnificent opportunity. You can proactively search for "Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre" to understand the true philosophy of Buddhist education. The most important thing for the future is to promote Buddhist education to the next generation.

I was once a magazine editor and worked in various media industries, and I was quite influential. But once a person loses their body, it is very difficult for the spirit to continue to exert power. Therefore, for my friends and family who still have bodies and have the opportunity to see this article, I hope you will not miss this precious life. Although my body is dead now, my spirit has not disappeared, which is why I can tell you everything I have experienced after death in the Land of Dharma Nature.

I hope you can take these words to heart. This is not baseless talk, but my most sincere and earnest words from the bottom of my heart. I believe that if everyone has the opportunity to come into contact with Buddhist education, you would not want to miss or lose such a precious opportunity.

I am grateful to Namo Amituofo and Practitioner Su for giving me the opportunity to be interviewed. Thank you all.