Interview with Dame Marie Bashir (37th Governor of New South Wales & Australian psychiatrist）

Dame Marie Bashir, the first female Governor of New South Wales and a distinguished psychiatrist, reflects on her life, her transition into the spiritual realm, and the profound lessons learned about the nature of the soul and karmic retribution.

Dame Marie Bashir:

"My dear people, dear friends, dear family, and all those who have known me: thank you for your deep affection and for the concern you have shown me. I have now officially departed from the stage of this life, and I hope you will not hold onto too much longing or grief for me.

Throughout my life, I did my absolute best to serve those within my reach, and I do not have many regrets in my heart. If I must mention one thing, the only surprise was that it was only after I passed away that I truly realised the existence of the spiritual world. In this life, although I studied extensively in psychiatry, child care, and the knowledge of various ethnic groups, there was still a piece missing — the most important truth I only understood after death: the knowledge of 'spiritual life'.

Although the topic of spirituality has always been controversial, now that I no longer have a physical body and am speaking to you as a soul, I have come to understand that knowledge regarding the spiritual world is actually of vital importance. I say this because if one cannot understand the spiritual world, one cannot truly understand how to plan one's life.

Before I passed away, I believed my life was quite complete. I felt satisfied and grateful for the circumstances I had been given; there was nothing I felt lacking. I could say that I walked through my ninety-five years of life with significant achievements, yet I had never considered the planning for what comes after death. My faith in the Lord led me to believe I would return to His embrace, but beyond that, I had never studied spiritual matters. All I knew were the ideals of this life: to dedicate my abilities to helping others as much as possible, which, in turn, brought me no small amount of honour.

However, here I must also reveal a truth to you all. I hope you will not be too agitated or reject it: in reality, after I passed away, I did not go to heaven, nor did I meet the Lord. Instead, I went to hell to undergo punishment. I must be honest with you about this. This is not to negate the good I did in helping others, but rather to acknowledge that there were still many deviations and selfish motives in the process.

The deviation lies in the fact that whenever I took action based on my own considerations, the karmic retribution for that led me to hell for punishment. This may be difficult for you to understand, but the truth is that among the many deeds I performed during my life that earned your praise, many were mixed with my own personal considerations. I did not give as selflessly as a Sage. Although I tried my best to use my expertise and sincerely wanted to help people, I had not yet managed to completely let go of the self, nor could I avoid considering myself or my family. These selfish thoughts were still mixed in.

The greater my influence became, the greater the results and responsibilities I had to bear for the example I set. This is why, after I passed away, I entered the brain-gouging hell to undergo punishment. Fortunately, I did not suffer there for very long. Just a few months later, only a few days ago, a golden light shone down, and I heard someone calling my name. I was brought out of hell. The process was extremely rapid, happening in an instant, and I quickly entered a bright world.

This world looks very much like heaven—in fact, you may as well consider it a type of heaven, only this heaven belongs to Buddhism. This spiritual space is called the 'Western Land of Dharma Nature', and it is located at a Buddhist temple in Australia called the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre. Within it, there is a spiritual deity of the highest order in Buddhism, the guiding deity here, who is called 'Namo Amituofo'. Such a supreme deity is known in Buddhism as a 'Buddha'.

This 'Buddha' may be a bit unfamiliar to many, but you can think of Him as a selfless, devoted divine being whose sole purpose for existing is to help all sentient beings. It was for this reason that I was saved from hell by Namo Amituofo and brought to the Western Land of Dharma Nature.

Looking back at the past, trying to understand why I had to enter hell for punishment, I have slowly begun to see clearly. Although I lived for ninety-five years, as early as after the age of fifty, I was no longer able to freely control my own body. From a spiritual perspective, my body was filled with many, many spirits—spirits that had deep connections and interactions with me throughout my many lives. When these spirits awakened within my body and began to control me, influencing my behaviour, I could no longer control myself with such freedom. My own selfishness, combined with the control of these sentient beings, is why, later on, many of the things I did became increasingly mixed with selfish motives, leading me to enter the brain-gouging hell after my life ended.

It is truly shameful to admit this, but without spiritual education, without Buddhist education, it is very difficult to perceive these subtle deviations. I did not know that such mental notes could attract the retribution of hell. Now, here in the Land of Dharma Nature, learning Buddhist education alongside Namo Amituofo and the great practitioner, Practitioner Su, I have come to realise how important this education is for a person. If you don’t have a clear direction in life, you can't truly put others first when serving the vulnerable, helping children, or supporting your community. If you can’t fully let go of your own ego and your intentions drift, the negative impact will be massive, affecting so many people. Although people still bestowed upon me many praises and titles during my life, from a spiritual perspective—from the perspective of the Truth of how the universe operates—the good and the bad do not cancel each other out.

The good deeds done—the sincere service to others and the selfless giving—can indeed bring about good results. However, the negative deviations I caused, and the final thought I had at the moment of my passing—where I felt a lingering attachment to my life—attracted negative, vengeful beings who led me all the way to hell. Therefore, I had to undergo punishment in hell for a short time before I had the opportunity to leave and arrive at the Land of Dharma Nature at Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre.

The ups and downs of this life were truly quite spectacular. However, once the body is gone, everything returns to nothingness. No matter how spectacular or glorious one's achievements were, from the perspective of a spirit, they cannot be enjoyed. After passing away, I could no longer communicate with my family or appear before the public. Without this body, people cannot see this spirit.

Now, here in the Land of Dharma Nature, because this temple has long served us spirits who are drifting and powerless in our suffering, they not only saved us but also gave us the opportunity to speak to everyone and tell our stories. That is why I now have the chance to transmit messages through spiritual means, which are then converted into text, allowing you to hear and see what I have to say once again. If you have any interest in spiritual life, or if you wish to understand more deeply what happened after the curtain fell on my legendary life, you might as well pay a visit to Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre. We can have a more in-depth conversation and explain the finer details properly. After all, there are still many details in this process that I have not yet fully grasped.

In fact, I am still learning; one is never too old to learn. This Buddhist education is a very new subject for me, one I had never truly encountered before. I was skilled in the fields of psychiatry and psychology, but I had never touched upon this level that points so directly to the depths of the human heart. Here in the Land of Dharma Nature, looking at everything before me, I feel quite moved. I lived for such a long time—ninety-five years—thinking I had successfully helped many people, but now I know that what I was able to help them with was merely limited improvements in their living conditions, limited improvements in education, and the alleviation of some of their limited psychological problems.

However, if we get to the bottom of it, these illnesses and psychological problems were never merely physical ailments from start to finish; they originated from the interference of the spiritual world. Many children who have psychiatric issues, or people who suffer from psychological diseases or symptoms, do not actually have anything wrong with them. The real problem is that they have been found by the spirits they have harmed throughout their many lives. These spirits have already begun to cause serious interference with their cognition and perception. These spirits are not just one or two; there is at least one spirit for every cell, and the true number of spirits within a body is countless—just as there are countless cells and bacteria in the body. The magnitude of that number is not something ordinary people can imagine. Just because the physical eyes cannot see them does not mean they do not exist.

After I passed away and arrived at the Land of Dharma Nature, every time the temple chanted my name to help me, it would attract many spirits who have karmic affinities with me and who know me to gather at the temple, preparing to seek revenge. Honestly, I did not understand it myself. I served so many people in my life; how could there be so many who wanted to seek revenge on me? But later, I understood that these spirits are not just those who accumulated resentment from this one life, but rather all the people I have offended and all the beings I have harmed throughout my many lives. If they have not yet let go of their hatred, they will continue to come knocking as spirits, time and time again. As long as one has a body capable of feeling pain, they will gather within that body to attack it and affect its functions.

Regarding the individuals I mentioned earlier who suffer from psychiatric conditions—whether they are children or adults—the truth is that they have been tracked down by their own karmic creditors, who have already begun their assault. Those targeted at a young age often show signs of childhood psychiatric disorders. For those who are targeted and experience the onset of symptoms only in adulthood, it is simply because those spirits took a little longer to invade the body. However, the underlying principles are identical. If these spiritual issues are not resolved at the root, no amount of medication, psychological counselling, or therapy can truly solve the problem.

Sometimes, after long-term treatment, a patient may appear to improve. In reality, this is only because their true self has been completely locked away within the body, rendered unable to act autonomously, and has been replaced by their karmic creditors—the very spirits who hold a grudge against them. Once these vengeful spirits have taken over, they naturally cease the self-destructive or erratic behaviours, instead using the body to carry out their own acts of vengeance. Therefore, there are many variables in this process that are far more complex than people imagine. Only those who truly understand the workings of the spiritual world can fundamentally and thoroughly resolve such issues.

This is precisely why Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre in Australia is so dedicated to promoting Buddhist education. What I am learning here in the Dharma-Nature Land is exactly that—Buddhist education. This education is incredibly thorough. It not only explains the truths and details of the spiritual world with great clarity but also teaches us that, whether we are human or spirit, everything we do and every thought we cultivate must align with the true path of the spirit, in harmony with the laws of the universe and the way heaven and earth operate. If we violate the Truth and stray from pure, virtuous conduct, we will only invite more sentient beings with whom we have karmic debts to attack us. Once attacked, physical illness, ageing, and death become unavoidable. This is a truth I only truly understood after arriving in the Dharma-Nature Land.

Looking back at everything I did in the human world, although I helped many vulnerable groups and assisted many children struggling with addiction or other issues, my help was merely superficial. I did not truly resolve the issues caused by the spirits residing within them. Once the conditions were ripe, their problems would inevitably recur. This is why the relapse rate for such conditions is so high, and why long-term medication and therapy seem to become an indispensable part of their lives. When the body is no longer under the control of the original owner and is instead used by other spirits, the person undergoes a complete change in personality. While it may appear as though they have improved, in reality, it is a completely different spirit, a different personality. The original person is locked deep within, completely unable to express their true self.

Having said this, you should all understand that for humanity, the absence of Buddhist education is a catastrophe of immense proportions. If you delve deeply into this and explore it, you will find that what I am saying is grounded in evidence. Scholars who have conducted in-depth research in this field should immediately recognise that what I am describing is the factual truth. The longer you work in this field, the more you will notice certain inconsistencies—conditions that human science cannot reach, and illnesses that truly cannot be treated by medicine or counselling alone. Yes, I have now revealed the answer to you: these are problems that can only be thoroughly cured at the level of the spiritual world.

I am deeply grateful to this temple for rescuing me from the hells. If not for the temple, I would surely still be suffering there. But what truly caused me the most anguish was not even the suffering itself; it was the fact that I could never understand why I had fallen into hell, nor could I comprehend where I had gone wrong in my life's actions. To have worked so hard for an entire lifetime, only to be graded as a failure—for a scholar, for someone who holds themselves to high standards, there is no greater pain than that.

But now, everything is becoming clear. I understand that this life was not as simple as I once thought. In every person's life, it is inevitable that good and evil are mixed, and merits and demerits are intertwined. At the moment of death, whether the rewards for the good deeds or the retribution for the bad deeds manifest first is unknown, and it is not something one can decide for oneself. Therefore, the most secure approach is to study Buddhist education, ensuring that every word, every action, and every deed remains constantly on the correct path. Only then will you not be filled with uncertainty and doubt about your destination at the end of your life.

I also wish to send a message of peace to my beloved family, to all the friends who care about me, to my colleagues and juniors in the academic world, and to everyone who knew me in various fields: I am doing very well. I am now in the Dharma-Nature Land, so please do not worry too much. This is a beautiful, peaceful, and luminous spiritual world. Throughout this process, I have felt no pain and no distress. I have truly been rescued by the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre in Australia.

If you wish to find me, you can search for Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre in Australia online. It is located in Goombungee, Toowoomba, Queensland, and is very easy to find. If you wish to come and see me, you can simply drive here. If you want to learn more, you can search online first. The temple has made a great deal of vital information publicly available on the internet, including explanations and details regarding the spiritual world. The temple spares no effort in compiling these materials and resources, all in the hope of helping everyone understand.

The reason I was brought here is the hope that I might use my influence to give those who know me an opportunity to learn about Namo Amituofo and to study Buddhist education. This is not about promoting Buddhism specifically; any religion is the same. As long as it can truly help people, prevent them from doing wrong, and save them from future suffering, it is an excellent form of education. We learn various forms of education and knowledge throughout our lives in the hope that they will benefit us. Buddhist education is the same, only it is a more advanced and profound form of learning. Its influence extends not only to the time we are alive but also to where our spirits go after life ends. This is a profound truth and a field of study that is truly worth investing in.

This temple is world-renowned and promotes Buddhist education in many different countries. Here in Australia, they have also erected large billboards to give more people the chance to encounter the Buddhist education of Namo Amituofo. If you have the chance to look up while driving on the highway from Brisbane to Toowoomba in Queensland, you might see a billboard with the words "Namo Amituofo" written in large characters. This is the temple that rescued me, and I am currently residing right here within this temple. You are all welcome to visit at any time.

I will stop here for today. I hope you will all cherish your limited time in this life, and I wish for you all to learn Namo Amituofo’s teachings soon."

Dame Marie Bashir

Namo Amituofo.