This is a record of an interview with Wu Tiansong, a spirit who sought at the Hsiang Kuang Buddhist Centre in Australia. Wu Tiansong and the spirits of his village were caught in a devastating landslide in Sichuan, China, many years ago. He now resides in the Borderland of Doubt and seeks guidance on his path to the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss. This interview was recorded by Practitioner Su on January 2, 2015.
Practitioner Su speaks:
". May I ask your name?"
Wu Tiansong speaks:
"I am Wu Tiansong. It is the same name as your father."
Practitioner Su:
"My father's name is Su Tiansheng!"
Wu Tiansong:
"Can you feel it? The sound is the same."
A Village Buried in Earth
Practitioner Su:
"Where are you from?"
Wu Tiansong:
"I am also from Sichuan, China!"
Practitioner Su:
"And how did you pass away?"
Wu Tiansong:
"I... there was a massive landslide, a mountain collapse. We were all crushed underneath. My entire family, the whole village—it was all gone."
Practitioner Su:
"The entire village was buried? You were all covered by the landslide?"
Wu Tiansong:
"Our whole village met such a miserable end!"
Practitioner Su:
"Wu, what was the name of your village? My Buddha is of great ; the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre can provide you with Chao Du."
Wu Tiansong:
"It was Wu Family Village."
Practitioner Su:
"To those of Wu Family Village buried by the landslide, my Buddha is of great compassion. The Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre will provide you with Chao Du."
(Practitioner Su instructs a fellow practitioner: "Write a memorial tablet for him. Include his from beginningless time and invite him to listen to the teachings.")
Wu Tiansong:
"There were one hundred and thirty-six of us in Wu Family Village. I am so grateful. Your compassion is boundless!"
The Weight of Past Lives
Practitioner Su:
"You are the representative. What is your name? We must record this for your karmic history."
Wu Tiansong:
"My name is Wu Mingguang. I am so grateful to you! Can I still be delivered from my karmic debts while residing in the Borderland of Doubt?"
Practitioner Su:
"We will help you ascend as much as possible. I invite you to look into your past lives. You must look back at least ten or more lifetimes to truly feel the weight of repenting."
Wu Tiansong:
"I can only see back to my sixth life."
Practitioner Su:
"How did you fall into the hells in your sixth life?"
Wu Tiansong:
"My heart was wicked. Oh, I am so ashamed! I was incredibly selfish. I poisoned the water source against others. I am truly filled with remorse!"
Practitioner Su:
"It seems many people have resorted to poisoning others. The human heart is so treacherous; people do not realise how terrifying the laws of and cause and effect are!"
Wu Tiansong:
"In those days, the land was vast and sparsely populated. Sometimes, during natural disasters when water was scarce, everyone was selfish. To protect our own village, we would cut off the water supply to others. We never thought to share even half with them. Sometimes, we would even fight and kill over it."
Practitioner Su:
"Poisoning the water and causing others to die—the for that is endless! Oh, you did not understand the laws of karma!"
Wu Tiansong:
"That is why I am so ashamed! I was so selfish."
The Cycle of Suffering
Practitioner Su:
"After you died, which hell did you fall into?"
Wu Tiansong:
"I fell straight into the Intestinal-Irrigation Hell."
Practitioner Su:
"How many hells did you go through?"
Wu Tiansong:
"Only one."
Practitioner Su:
"How did you manage to get out?"
Wu Tiansong:
"Repenting. The pain was unbearable, so I repented."
Practitioner Su:
"Repenting alone allowed you to leave? Could you just call out to King Yama and be released?"
Wu Tiansong:
"Oh! I do not know how I managed to chant it once: 'Buddha! I was wrong!' I did not even know what a Buddha was, but that was enough to get me out. Then, I entered the animal realm."
Practitioner Su:
"What did you become in the animal realm?"
Wu Tiansong:
"I became a chicken. I was in the neighbouring village, paying off my debts, being slaughtered and butchered by others!"
Practitioner Su:
"How many lifetimes were you a chicken?"
Wu Tiansong:
"I was a chicken for three or four lifetimes before I could ascend."
Practitioner Su:
"How did you ascend? Did someone help you take refuge?"
Wu Tiansong:
"It seems a monk passed through the village. He taught me: 'Take refuge in the Buddha, and do not fall into the hells; take refuge in the , and do not fall into the hungry ghost realm; take refuge in the Sangha, and do not fall into the animal realm; take refuge in Namo Amituofo, the most honoured of all.' Oh, when I died as a chicken and was slaughtered, in that very instant, I was reincarnated as a human!"
The Urgency of Rebirth
Practitioner Su:
"But did you continue to reincarnate in many bodies after that?"
Wu Tiansong:
"Yes, many lifetimes of reincarnation!"
Practitioner Su:
"My Buddha is of great compassion. The Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre can deliver you from your karmic history, and your family members can also be saved."
Wu Tiansong:
"It is terrifying! I have failed them. Now that I have ascended, I feel so filthy. It is horrifying! How could I have had such a wicked heart?"
Practitioner Su:
"People today are selfish because they lack Buddhist education. They do not know what they should do."
Wu Tiansong:
"I am not speaking for myself, but selfishness is wrong. Yet, seeing my village suffer so much—as the village head, I committed these atrocities for the sake of my villagers, and now I have become like this."
Practitioner Su:
"Look at the seven billion people in the world today. This problem cannot be solved easily, as you know!"
Wu Tiansong:
"It is true. We are all suffering the consequences of our own actions."
Practitioner Su:
"Why is the human heart so wicked? It is because there is no education in Confucianism, Buddhism, or Taoism. We must have traditional Chinese cultural education."
Wu Tiansong:
"People today have strong personalities; they care about their reputation and their pride, and they hold onto these things so tightly. Practitioner Su, you must also teach those who are practising! Learning Buddhism is not just about curing your own illnesses. Your beings are suffering greatly. If you want to enter the Hsiang Kuang Buddha-land to be healed, you must change your personality. Some have not truly repented."
Practitioner Su:
"Wu, you have given excellent guidance. You see, in the Borderland of Doubt, you have everything you desire, but you cannot see the Buddha for five hundred years. Now, with a single Buddha-name—Namo Amituofo—you can save your family. Do you want to go to the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss to learn? You must change your ways and say, 'Buddha, please save me! I must go to the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss to learn, so I have the ability to save my karmic creditors!'"
Wu Tiansong:
"Some ask, 'Is it really true? Can this Buddha-name alone get us there?' It is because it opens up our space, and the Buddha is of great compassion."
Practitioner Su:
"Those who still doubt are truly lacking in . I tell you, it is true! Once you reach the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss, you will be free, and you will be able to save your family!"
Wu Tiansong:
"Some say, 'Isn't it good here? Why do we have to wait five hundred years to see the Buddha?' It is so beautiful! I am speaking for myself."
Practitioner Su:
"It is beautiful, and you are enjoying blessings, but your family members are still in the cycle of rebirth, and you cannot save them. If you go to the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss, you will be able to save them—your children, your father, your mother, all can be saved."
Wu Tiansong:
"But Practitioner Su, they ask again, 'We heard you tell Practitioner Xiuli that those in the Pure Land should not come back down! If your emotional entanglements are too heavy, you will get stuck and cannot return.' If we go to the Pure Land, how can we come back down?"
Practitioner Su:
"The situation is this: I was telling Practitioner Xiuli that the human body is precious. By enduring a little suffering to help beings leave suffering and gain happiness, one can be reborn in the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss. Once you reach the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss, you must practise diligently. Once you reach the level of the Real Reward Realm, you can come back down!"
Wu Tiansong:
"Oh! So one must reach the Real Reward Realm to come back down. Otherwise, as you always say, without true attainment, one cannot come back down, or one will end up just like them! We have heard this! What should we do?"
Practitioner Su:
"The point is that you must first go to the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss to save your family. This is a chance difficult to encounter in millions of years. There are over one hundred and twenty-three thousand of you! You can all be reborn in the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss!"
Wu Tiansong:
"You must teach them, otherwise some are still confused!"
Practitioner Su:
"I ask you to look back at your past lives for at least ten or more lifetimes. Only then will you know how terrifying the cycle of rebirth is, and you will think, 'How could I have committed such atrocities to harm others!' Has everyone seen it? If you have seen it, then come in. If you have not seen it, do not enter the Hsiang Kuang Buddha-land. Only enter when you know the suffering."
Wu Tiansong:
"I know the suffering. I want to go to the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss. I believe."
Practitioner Su:
"When they were in the world, they did not suffer enough! They do not know what suffering is!"
Wu Tiansong:
"Some do not know, but they follow along, thinking they want to ascend too."
Practitioner Su:
"If you do not ascend, you are finished! You twelve thousand three hundred and seventy beings—do you want to be reincarnated into a country where you cannot be the master, where you have to go to war and continue the cycle of birth and death? Or do you want to go to the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss?"
Wu Tiansong:
"It is suffering! I do not want to suffer anymore. Many are repenting; we want to go to the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss."
Practitioner Su:
"If you go to be reborn again, you cannot be the master. Will you be denounced? Will you be in war?"
Wu Tiansong:
"No, no, it is too painful! (Crying) I want to go to the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss."
Practitioner Su:
"It is painful. You must hold onto the Buddha-name. A single 'Namo Amituofo' can lead to rebirth. Very well, Namo Amituofo. Please step onto the lotus seat."
