This is a record of an interview with Fan Ling, a scholar from the Ming Dynasty who lived approximately six hundred years ago. He sought at the Hsiang Kuang Buddhist Centre in Australia and now resides in the Western Land of Nature. This account reflects upon his life, his deep admiration for his mentor, and his long spiritual journey that culminated in his deliverance. Recorded by the chief writer, Shi Faru, on March 7, 2026.
Fan Ling speaks:
". I am Fan Ling. Six hundred years ago, I was a scholar living in the Yunnan region. From my earliest childhood, my parents instilled in me the importance of mastering the classics and travelling to the capital to sit for the imperial examinations. Their hope, and indeed my own, was that I might one day return to my hometown to serve as a virtuous local official, bringing prosperity and justice to our people. There is a passage from the works of Mencius that has remained etched in my heart throughout these many centuries: 'When Heaven is about to place a great responsibility on a person, it first exhausts their heart and mind, and strains their muscles and bones.' During my long years of study, I clung to these words as my guiding light. It was a difficult path, especially considering that I lived in a remote area where ethnic minorities were the majority. As a member of such a community, living under the governance of the Han people, I often felt a profound sense of insecurity regarding my prospects of being accepted by the imperial court. I yearned to succeed through my own merit, to become a bridge between the central government and the people of my home. I believed that having an official who truly understood the language, customs, and genuine needs of the local people was the only way to ensure their well-being."
A Scholar's Ambition in Yunnan
"The officials sent from the central government were often Han people who felt a deep sense of alienation from our culture and traditions. They could not truly grasp the heart of our people or the issues that mattered most to us. Because they were not born and raised in our soil, they lacked the intuitive understanding required to govern effectively. Furthermore, most of these officials viewed their posting in our region merely as a stepping stone—a temporary hardship to be endured before they could be promoted to more prestigious positions in the heart of the empire. As long as the local population remained quiet and did not revolt, these officials considered their duty fulfilled. The policies imposed by the central government were designed primarily for pacification and control, rather than genuine development. Although we had local 'native officials' who were required to swear loyalty to the Ming Dynasty, their voices were rarely heard. Their petitions and suggestions were often ignored or buried in the bureaucracy. It was a system built on misunderstanding. I felt that true autonomy required effective communication and collaboration with the central government. This was the role I aspired to fill: a connector, a mediator who could ensure that the central government understood the reality of our lives, and that our people felt the stability of a government that actually cared for them. With this vision in my heart, I studied with an intensity that few could comprehend."
The Challenges of the Imperial Examination
"The path to education in our region was fraught with obstacles. We lacked the resources, the teachers, and the academic infrastructure that were so abundant in the capital. The language barrier alone was a mountain to climb. Many of my friends and family members questioned my resolve: 'Why must you seek the approval of the central government? Why not simply live your life here?' They did not understand that without that connection, our people would remain forever unheard. Despite the doubts of those around me, I persisted. I knew that to change the system, I had to enter the system. I had to walk the halls of the Guozijian, the Imperial Academy.
The Ming Dynasty was an era that prized literary achievement above all else. To stand out among the thousands of scholars was a task of Herculean proportions. Yet, I was fortunate in one respect: because I came from the remote Yunnan region, the competition was not as fierce as it was in the more densely populated provinces. I passed the three stages of the local examinations and earned the title of Xiucai. I had intended to continue to the provincial examinations, but the government, in a rare moment of foresight, encouraged minority scholars to enter the Guozijian to familiarise themselves with imperial policy. This was a gift from Heaven. I had never imagined that such a door would open for me. It was my ticket to the heart of the empire, and I seized it with everything I had."
A Rare Mentor in the Capital
"Entering the Guozijian was an experience that truly broadened my horizons. The capital was a world of unimaginable splendour, so different from the humble, rustic life I had known in Yunnan. The students there were driven, their goals clearly defined, and their futures often secured by the influence of their families. Many were the sons of wealthy, powerful clans, with fathers and grandfathers already holding high office. For them, government service was not a calling; it was a birthright. I, however, was an outsider, a student from the 'barbarian' lands. I learned much that was not taught in our local schools—history, administrative theory, and the complex machinery of the state. Yet, the more I learned, the more I realised the depth of the prejudice that existed within the capital. The government spoke of 'stabilising' the border regions, but in their hearts, they viewed us as people beyond the pale of civilisation, to be managed and contained rather than nurtured.
However, amidst the sea of scholars and officials who looked down upon us, there was one man whose vision transcended the narrow prejudices of the time: you, the Sub-Chancellor, Chen Jingzong. It was because of your advocacy, your insistence on equality, and your recommendations to the court that students like me were given a fair chance. I could feel the difference in your presence. While other professors and doctors treated me with subtle condescension, you saw only a student. You did not care about my background, my family's wealth, or my status. You treated the son of a powerful official and the son of a remote minority village with the exact same level of respect and rigour. In your lectures and your writings, I saw a man who truly cared for the comprehensive development of education in the Ming Dynasty. I studied your philosophy of governance with the utmost care, hoping to learn how to treat all people, regardless of their origin, with the same profound equality that you demonstrated every single day."
Therefore, strictly adhering to the law is a matter that local officials must prioritise. Beyond this strict adherence lies a deeper meaning: all people are equal before the law. There should be no favouritism, no special privileges, and no groups that are ignored or marginalised. Only with such an egalitarian mindset toward the people can a region truly achieve long-term stability and peace. This was the most important lesson I learned from Master Chen. Soon after my studies at the Imperial Academy concluded and I passed the final examinations, I was appointed to serve as a local official.
The Path of Service and Cultural Integration
However, according to national policy, I could not return directly to Yunnan Province; I had to be posted to other regions. This was a policy designed to prevent the consolidation of local power, and I could understand the reasoning behind it. For me, this was actually a positive development. My original aspiration was to assist ethnic minorities in the regions and help them connect with the central government. With this premise, I believed that no matter where I was posted, I would be more empathetic toward the local people than officials who were merely children of the central aristocracy, and I would be better able to encourage their cooperation with central policies.
I complied with the government's assignment and arrived in the Fujian and Guangdong regions to serve as an instructor. Although I was not a famous high-ranking official, I worked very actively during my tenure to assist the residents of Fujian and Guangdong, enabling them to receive an education and live in peace and prosperity. I also gained a deep understanding of their culture. Yunnan is relatively close to Fujian and Guangdong, so their minority languages and related cultures were not entirely unfamiliar to me. The main difference was that Fujian and Guangdong are coastal, with economies primarily based on maritime transport, fisheries, and flourishing trade.
Navigating the Complexity of Coastal Trade
This aspect was relatively new to me and required familiarisation. I put in a great deal of effort to understand what kind of assistance the people engaged in these industries needed. Because coastal trade was so vibrant, the movement of people was extremely complex. Whether they were ethnic minorities, government officials, Han Chinese of the Ming Dynasty, or foreign merchants from other countries engaged in maritime trade, they all converged here. Many matters required my handling. In communicating these issues and in promoting and explaining local regulations, I had to be extremely cautious and consider these diverse situations. I was acutely aware of the communication barriers that cultural differences could bring.
Therefore, whenever I translated or sought to understand different cultures, I would carefully verify my findings and try my best to understand the other party's cultural background. I attempted to explain policies based on the differences in their cognitive frameworks and their varying levels of understanding of the Ming Dynasty government. Regarding the observance of the Great Ming Code, I always upheld what I had learned at the Imperial Academy: that the law is equal for everyone. Especially in such remote areas, which were also important hubs for port trade, any culture or force could potentially undergo mutations or become incompatible with the Ming government. If such a situation arose, I had to submit a memorial to the prefectural school authorities as quickly as possible, hoping to adjust local regulations promptly.
Education as the Foundation of Stability
I had to ensure that the laws could be effectively observed by all ethnic groups, rather than being abandoned or met with resistance because they were impractical or out of touch with reality. I believe that when various laws are resisted by the people, there is always a reason for it. If one can identify these root causes, make adjustments, communicate effectively, and provide proper instruction, then the people and all ethnic groups will find ways to cooperate. They may even become willing to cooperate actively, understanding that following the law helps their various trades and businesses run smoothly, and has a positive impact on local security and development.
Based on this understanding, educating everyone in the Great Ming Code was, I believe, the correct direction. Regarding ethnic equality, I upheld the style and attitude Master Chen had always demonstrated, giving equal opportunities to all ethnic groups and communities as much as possible. Whether it was different ethnic groups or various industries, I tried my best to provide assistance.
I placed particular importance on cultural education. Because of the language barriers, it was much more difficult for ethnic minorities or foreigners to learn effectively compared to the general Han population. Therefore, I placed great emphasis on local schools and the training provided for them to pass the local scholar examinations. I worked diligently in the Guangzhou and Fujian regions, and after my three-year term ended and I passed the assessment, the government decided to retain me.
A New Posting in Shanghai
However, in the fourth year, because Shanghai needed personnel, I was appointed there. Because it was also a major seaport and transportation hub, and because they valued my experience and my high level of cooperation with the government regarding economic matters, I was transferred to Shanghai to serve as an instructor. It was, in a sense, a promotion. No matter where I was sent, I upheld the same principle: to respect all ethnic minorities and to respect equality.
The composition of people in Shanghai was complex, with individuals coming from all over, especially from the south. Some were passing through on their way to the capital for the imperial examinations and would station themselves there. I provided them with a place to live and helped them continue their studies. For those who did not intend to seek government positions, I also provided a place where they could receive an education. Regardless of their background, origin, or position, and no matter what work they did, I provided an institution where they could settle down and learn.
As a hub for domestic transportation, I believed that good education played a crucial role in the stability of local security. Therefore, I did my best to run schools there, fully exercising my role as an instructor and actively developing education so that the people of the Shanghai region could have a basic level of literacy, even if they did not necessarily intend to take the imperial examinations.
Reflections on a Life of Service
However, good times do not last forever. After serving as an instructor for a second three-year term, nearing six years in total, perhaps due to the heavy workload, my health began to decline. The imperial court, not wanting to leave the position vacant, replaced me. I petitioned the court, hoping to return to my hometown in Yunnan to spend my later years. After the memorial was approved, I began my journey back to Yunnan. On the way back, my physical condition deteriorated further and further. Yet, I hoped that I could successfully return to Yunnan and bring some positive changes to the region.
I hoped that I could apply the experience I had gained from managing affairs in Guangdong, Fujian, and Shanghai, and pass it on to give the people of Yunnan a different perspective. After successfully returning to Yunnan, I shared my management experiences from Fujian, Guangdong, and Shanghai with my close friends in the prefectural school. I also conveyed to them the importance of valuing the education of different people and different ethnic groups, rather than letting education merely become a tool for scholars and elites to pursue fame and official positions.
All people should possess basic cultivation, and be familiar with and comply with the Great Ming Code, so that the region can enjoy long-term stability and peace, and so that there can be a clear coordination between the central government and the local regions. Throughout this journey, I have always upheld this philosophy. I am very grateful for the way Master Chen acted, which was different from others; he did not look down upon farmers, workers, or merchants in the way that many scholars did.
Regarding other professions, he maintained an attitude of equal teaching and treatment. He also valued the importance of local private education. Although he held a high position in the central government, he was not seeking greater power. His goal was to make good use of his position to have a significant impact on the education of those who might serve in various official capacities throughout the Ming Dynasty. He wanted them to recognise these key points from the root, so they would not become corrupt or incompetent local officials. For the descendants of noble families who were to serve in central government positions, he also provided very strict guidance, ensuring they would not rely on their power and influence to ignore local education and local cooperation.
Because the chaos in the country, apart from the infighting within the core of power, also stemmed from local rebellions and uprisings. These rebellions and uprisings were often not initiated by the people voluntarily. The main reason was that central policies were disconnected from local realities, causing the people to suffer hardships and difficulties without any channel to reflect these issues to the central government, lacking laws to follow, and lacking proper education. This was a vicious cycle created by the central government's failure to communicate policies effectively, and the local regions' inability to understand or comply with them. After understanding this situation, I am sure that the officials in the central government would design local policies, stabilise local economies, and set national development goals with a more inclusive approach toward local cultures. I am deeply grateful that in my lifetime, I was able to meet an educator like Master Chen.
I started my career relatively late, and combined with my travels between different regions, my political career was not long. However, I believe that I made full use of my life. I enjoyed my later years in Yunnan, and after my life ended, my spirit left my body. I was curious about the development of the Guangzhou and Fujian regions, so I went to Guangzhou and Fujian first to see. The situation there was as it had always been, which gave me great peace of mind. I then went to the Shanghai region; because I had only just left, there was not much difference. Later, I thought of Master Chen. At that time, although Master Chen was advanced in years, he was still very robust, and he continued to write about many educational philosophies.
Seeing him at such an advanced age, yet still actively striving for the education of the Ming Dynasty, I was deeply moved. I subsequently entered the space within his cheekbones. I believe I entered that space—which symbolised his fearlessness toward the powerful and his unique, upright character—because I truly admired his integrity. At that time, he was already serving as the Libationer. Although he did not have to handle the minutiae of teaching affairs directly, he remained dedicated to establishing educational philosophies and ensuring the stable operation of the Imperial Academy, all while continuing to write and publish his works. He actively held meetings with the management of the Imperial Academy and took the initiative to have them report on various situations. This truly filled me with admiration. I remained in the space of his cheekbones, observing the developments that followed.
A New Life and a Different Path
Later, following Master Chen's passing, he appeared in the world several more times. In his most recent life, he was born as a woman in Taiwan. This time, she did not found an educational institution; instead, she took on the role of a businessperson.
Although this was different from what I had imagined, I believed that given her broad perspective and foresight, she would be successful in any business she undertook. As expected, she became exceptionally wealthy in the jewellery trade. However, in her forty-seventh year, her life underwent a sudden and profound transformation.
The Eternal Practitioner
While it might be said that she transitioned from the jewellery industry to becoming a practitioner, I knew from within her body that she had actually been a practitioner throughout her many lifetimes. This so-called practice does not rely on any specific Dharma gate or method. She is called a practitioner because, regardless of where she is born or what identity she assumes, her heart is always focused on the philosophy of helping others, saving others, and enabling them to leave suffering behind. She manages every industry she enters with this active, compassionate intent.
Whether serving as a Director of Studies or a Libationer at the Imperial Academy, acting as a business owner in the jewellery trade, or later setting everything aside to practice the Pure Land Dharma Gate, there is fundamentally no difference. That heart, which truly seeks to help others, has remained the same from beginning to end; it only manifests differently according to varying Causal Conditions and Dharma affinities.
The Buddha-Heart and Vow
She later followed Venerable Master Chin Kung to practice the Pure Land Dharma Gate. Later, in order to save beings, she did not even hesitate to have her feet crushed by beings and demon crowds. Subsequently, she moved Namo Amituofo to descend and abide on Earth. All of these actions were taken because she wanted to save more people and help more beings. I believe anyone with some understanding of Practitioner Su can comprehend his true nature. Even now, having reached the stage of an awakened being, he has not changed his philosophy of saving the world and helping others. This is what he calls his Buddha-heart and his vow; it is his true heart.
By following Namo Amituofo to promote Buddhist education, Master Chen has returned to his original calling. He educates the fourfold assembly, those who study Buddhism and those who do not, the beings of the Ten Directions, and even the demon crowds with total equality. His sole purpose is to help everyone leave suffering behind, realise their true nature, and return to the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss.
The Essence of the Buddha-Spirit
From what I have observed, this is how Practitioner Su's spirit has always been. The reason Practitioner Su's spirit is called a Buddha-spirit is not because he has attained some incredibly profound state, but because throughout his many lifetimes, this spirit has always been actively helping beings and helping people escape suffering. When in the role of an educator, he actively manages education; when in the role of a great elder or a wealthy benefactor, he actively uses the money he earns for Generosity and for supporting the Dharma.
As long as it contributes to the development of society, he will give his all. This is why I observe that Practitioner Su's spirit is called a Buddha-spirit. Furthermore, just recently, Practitioner Su conducted a massive Chao Du for the demon crowds in China, which is also because Practitioner Su has a very deep Dharma affinity with China. Practitioner Su has appeared in China many times. Although he was born in Taiwan this time, Practitioner Su has always considered himself to be a part of China. This statement is made for the convenience of everyone's understanding, but in truth, the heart with which Practitioner Su wishes to save beings makes no such discriminations.
The Importance of China
China must be saved because the Chinese people possess good roots, , and Causal Conditions, and because the language is shared. If China, where the language is shared, cannot be saved, how can one speak of promoting the Buddha’s teachings to the whole world?
Conversely, if China can be saved, the prospects for the propagation and promotion of the Buddha’s teachings on Earth and globally become significantly higher. Moreover, China is full of talent. If large-scale promotion can be carried out through China's major corporations, great elders, and even leaders, high-level officials, and government personnel, the Buddha’s teachings will be able to abide in the world for a long time.
This would be of immense help to global stability, peace, and the reduction of war. This is the true method of bringing Namo Amituofo to the forefront, rather than just keeping Namo Amituofo in Australia. Although Practitioner Su was severely attacked by the demon crowds this time, he maintained the same heart he had when he served as a Director of Studies—fearless of the powerful.
Resilience in the Face of Mara
I felt this very clearly in the space of his cheekbone cells. When the demonic power vibrated through the space of his entire body's cells, even though the bones were pushed out of place, every being in the cellular space of those bones remained firmly at their posts.
Even though some were pushed out of their original spaces, those beings who had long resided in the space attached to the skeletal frame had already been trained to fear no test from any demon crowd. They remained upright, resisting any external challenges and threats.
These beings within the bone cells all know that only by not fearing the tests of the demon seeds can one truly save the world and truly promote Buddhist education in this world. It is just like how he originally promoted education to all walks of life and all ethnic groups; this is Practitioner Su's true vow—to introduce the Buddha’s teachings equally to every person with a Dharma affinity. Therefore, I, too, remained firm at my post within the bone cells.
A Final Act of Deliverance
Later, when Practitioner Su sounded the chime to invite out the beings in his face, I understood that this was a very important method to help Practitioner Su recover, so I did not linger. After all, as long as it is for the promotion of Buddhist education, I will support it with all my might.
I entered the Dharma-Nature Land and, from there, watched Practitioner Su continue to vigorously perform Chao Du for the demon crowds. Even though he was seriously injured and in intense pain in his chest and back, Practitioner Su did not stop his steps. Just as Practitioner Su has always led us and educated us, I saw it very clearly from the Dharma-Nature Land. I am very grateful to Master Chen and Practitioner Su for giving me this opportunity to learn how to truly and equally promote Buddhist education, which I believe is a very important thing for a human being.
I am grateful to Namo Amituofo and Practitioner Su for giving me this opportunity to tell my story and share what I have learned from Practitioner Su about how to sincerely and equally promote Buddhist education, and how to genuinely and wholeheartedly help beings. Now that I have left the cheekbone cells, I hope that in the future I can continue to follow Practitioner Su in performing Chao Du and finally enter the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss.
Gratitude to Namo Amituofo, gratitude to Practitioner Su.
Namo Amituofo.
Fan Ling
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