The Hidden Struggle Within: An Interview with Venerable Chang Gao

Venerable Chang Gao, a dedicated monastic, recently undertook a mission to assess the spiritual condition of Lay Practitioner Ni. This interview, recorded on November 3, 2021, by the chief writer, Venerable HaiZe, details the findings of the salvation team as they entered the spiritual field of Lay Practitioner Ni to offer guidance and deliverance.

Venerable Chang Gao speaks:

"Namo Amituofo. The latent habits or bad character traits of the demon crowds are indeed difficult to transform, but if one succeeds, the potential for positive influence is immense. This time, I was assigned a very special mission by Practitioner Su. Using the mutual understanding and recognition that exists between spirits, the Bodhisattvas of the salvation team—who have themselves been subdued and brought to surrender—use a common language and approach to counsel the others. By changing the perspective from which we handle these matters, I have observed over these past few days that we can truly achieve the effect of acceptance and change in the other party.

The Deterioration of a Protector

I was assigned to visit Lay Practitioner Ni. It had been a long time since we last met, and I found that his body and the spiritual field surrounding him had undergone drastic changes. Previously, the Dharma-spreading work conducted by the Teacher was stable, requiring the strong support and trust of the Dharma protectors. However, when the Teacher’s health necessitated a pause in the lectures, it caused shifts in the roles of the staff. This unsettled the minds of the regular protectors and the faithful, causing the magnetic field here to lose its former warmth and cohesion.

Around Lay Practitioner Ni, the number of karmic creditors far outweighs the number of demons, which creates a stark contrast with the Teacher’s environment. The Teacher is surrounded by more demons than karmic creditors, which indicates that their respective life’s work in spreading the Dharma and protecting it has led to their current situations. The large swarms of demons surrounding the Teacher are there to prevent the positive power of the Pure Land from entering at this critical time. The presence of so many karmic creditors around Lay Practitioner Ni shows that he has not yet 'turned over' his karma. This is because his latent habits or bad character traits remain unchanged; his rigid, unyielding personality is the reason these karmic creditors refuse to leave.

A Body Under Siege

When we, along with a large group of salvation Bodhisattvas, entered Lay Practitioner Ni’s body, we were astonished to find that the number of demons inside was no less than those surrounding the Teacher. While the demons around and within the Teacher are mostly there to prevent the transmission of the Pure Land teachings, the demons inside Lay Practitioner Ni are past karmic creditors who, filled with resentment, entered the Demon Realm. Consequently, the demons within him have formed a unified force. Based on my observations over the past few days, the goal of this force is to lead Lay Practitioner Ni to his death.

In truth, Lay Practitioner Ni’s need for dialysis should have occurred years ago. It was only because of his meritorious service as a protector, and the fact that the Teacher was lecturing on the Dharma at the time—creating a thick layer of positive energy—that these demons remained dormant and unable to exert much influence. It was only after the Teacher stopped lecturing and ceased communication with Practitioner Su that the situation changed. Lay Practitioner Ni failed to offer timely, positive suggestions. Driven by personal gain and selfishness, he sought to protect the 'empire' he and the Teacher had built, fearing that accepting Practitioner Su would cause unwanted changes. This led to a weakening of the positive spiritual power within and around him. As the protective magnetic field faded, the Teacher’s health rapidly degenerated, and Lay Practitioner Ni’s body became unable to cope, leading him to the hospital and the path of dialysis.

The Demon Guard at the Kidneys

Currently, the demons inside Lay Practitioner Ni are guarding his body tightly, keeping his condition in a state of decline—at best, stagnant—with no opportunity for improvement. We learned this directly from the demons stationed around his kidneys after our salvation Bodhisattvas entered his body. This is also the demand of his karmic creditors, forming a united front between the demons and the creditors to prevent any external force from interfering.

Lay Practitioner Ni’s body is filled with sentient beings, layer upon layer, surrounding his physical form. Before we entered from the periphery, we dispersed our power to enter through the head, shoulders, neck, chest, kidneys, and lower limbs—wherever we looked, there were demons stationed. I, Chang Gao, encountered a demon near the kidneys who looked like a monastic; although he wore monk’s robes, he had hair and a malevolent expression. I approached him and said, 'Namo Amituofo.' The demon glanced at me and asked, 'What do you want?' I replied, 'I have been inside here before, and I did not see so many beings in Lay Practitioner Ni’s body. It seems you have added a lot of manpower.' The demon sneered, 'You look quite conventional. Previously, his body had many monastics like you, but now, through our expulsion and forceful intervention, they have all left one by one. Why have you come in from the outside? You should leave quickly. His body is in such a state that you can no longer stay here; even if you try to hold on, he cannot live a normal life anymore.'

The Demon Named 'Mo Hai'

I said, 'We did not come in with the intention of violating you; we are merely visiting an old friend. I did not expect his body to have changed so much.' The demon replied, 'He deserved this retribution long ago because he did too many good deeds. Yet, at the most critical moment regarding Practitioner Su, he failed to offer the right advice. This caused the popularity of the entire Pure Land in the spiritual realm to decline, which gave us the opportunity to launch a massive counterattack and bring him down. I don't think you can achieve anything significant now, so you had better leave!'

I asked, 'If he could continue to transmit the Pure Land teachings, you too could gain the great merit of protecting the Pure Land.' The demon retorted, 'If we wanted his merit, we wouldn't have waited until today. We could have easily left, just like the other beings and monastics who left his body before. We want his life to avenge the cruel methods he used against us in the past.' I said, 'Karmic retribution is a cycle; for every fruit, there is a cause. Today he suffers, and tomorrow you will suffer. It would be better to give him a way out now, which is also giving yourself a way out.' The demon said, 'In our current state, no other place will take us. We are determined to take his life; we haven't thought about ourselves. You seem to have a decent level of practice—where do you come from?'

I asked, 'May I ask how to address you?' The demon hesitated for a moment and said, 'My name is Mo Hai.' I said, 'Bodhisattva Mo Hai, Namo Amituofo.' He replied, 'I am not a Bodhisattva; I am a demon.' I explained, 'Where we come from, all beings are equal. We respectfully address all demons who have been transformed by the Buddha’s teachings as Bodhisattvas.' Mo Hai looked surprised: 'I have not been transformed by the Buddha’s teachings; I am one who has been devastated by them.' I replied, 'That is a matter of individual causal conditions. Where we are, there is only the infinite compassion of Namo Amituofo, who accepts all demon beings without questioning their past or their actions.' Mo Hai’s expression turned to one of shock: 'This is a Buddha-Dharma I have never encountered, and I have never seen the Buddha. What I see before me is just like what we expected—everyone has their own hidden agenda. This is not the Buddha-Dharma.'

A Path to Deliverance

I said, 'Please forgive my bluntness, but we come from Practitioner Su. He is very concerned about Lay Practitioner Ni’s condition and asked us to come and see.' Mo Hai was very surprised: 'From Practitioner Su? He harmed Practitioner Su so terribly, and Practitioner Su still cares about him?' I replied, 'No matter how Lay Practitioner Ni treated him, in Practitioner Su’s heart, Lay Practitioner Ni will always have a place. We are all serving sentient beings, just in different ways. Hearing that his body has changed so drastically, Practitioner Su feels deep sorrow and hopes there is some way he can help.' Mo Hai asked, 'We have finally forced him into dialysis; can Practitioner Su save him now?'

I said, 'Namo Amituofo currently abides at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre. This is an incredibly powerful positive force. Regardless of how Lay Practitioner Ni treated Practitioner Su in the past, Namo Amituofo and Practitioner Su are always waiting for him at the temple. The ultimate goal for those who practice the Pure Land path is to enter the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss. This is something Practitioner Su can achieve; currently, Practitioner Su sends immeasurable beings to the Western Pure Land every day!'

Mo Hai said, 'If Lay Practitioner Ni could hear these words, his heart would be moved, but unfortunately, he cannot hear them. However, the light you brought has caused us to let go of much of our initial vigilance. We know you are practitioners of the True Teachings, and we can feel the atmosphere of compassion.' I said, 'If you are willing, you can also come to Practitioner Su’s Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre. Many demons who have been subdued there have turned over a new leaf and are now actively accumulating the provisions for rebirth in the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss.' Mo Hai replied, 'Your place sounds quite good. We have listened to the Teacher’s lectures for so long that we know what is right and what is wrong, and our hearts have been somewhat transformed. There are many demons like me here in Lay Practitioner Ni’s body; we are just holding onto the hatred in our hearts, and we have nowhere else to go.' I said, 'You can go to Practitioner Su. We respectfully call him Practitioner Su, and Namo Amituofo and Practitioner Su will unconditionally accept everyone. We have memorial tablets there; anyone can enter at any time and have the opportunity to be reborn in the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss.' Mo Hai remained silent, wearing a thoughtful expression.' Namo Amituofo."