This is a record of an interview with the King of the Third Hall, Song Di Wang, who sought deliverance at the Hsiang Kuang Buddhist Centre in Australia. He reflects on his past life as a butcher in Taiyuan, Shanxi, and his subsequent journey through the underworld. Recorded by Practitioner Su on July 21, 2015.
Practitioner Su speaks:
"We respectfully invite the King of the Third Hall, Song Di Wang. ."
Song Di Wang speaks:
"Practitioner Su, Namo Amituofo."
"Song Di Wang, it has been a long time. Today, we are visiting the Third Hall. May I ask where you are from?"
"I am from Taiyuan."
"Which province in Mainland China is that?"
"Shanxi."
A Life of Slaughter and Hidden Kindness
"May I ask what your occupation was in your past life?"
"You can tell just by looking at my face. I... well, I will not hide it from you. I was a butcher."
"A butcher? Did you slaughter pigs? Was that your trade in Taiyuan, Shanxi?"
"Yes, it was. But one day, a monastic passed by my house and stopped right in front of it. I was a butcher, and to be blunt, I had created very heavy through killing. But deep down, I actually had a kind heart."
"The karma we create in this human world is always a mix of good and evil. When we are in the world, we cannot truly be the masters of our own fate; we are all pulled along by the force of our karma."
"I do not know why I ended up in the slaughtering business, but I was extremely filial to my mother. Whenever I saw a monastic, I would step forward and pay my respects. That monastic said to me, 'Your hands are stained with too much blood from this killing; it is not suitable for you to continue in this trade.' My appearance was quite frightening—people would often recoil three steps when they saw me!"
The Fierce Face and the Compassionate Heart
"Not at all! I think you look quite fine, perhaps just a bit more facial hair! Hahaha!"
"Ah! I look quite fierce, with a rough face and bulging eyes."
"That look would certainly terrify the pigs. That is the truth."
"Because of that, I never married. I had a kind heart but a fierce face; my expressions were always quite unpleasant. When I saw that monastic, I noticed he had such a compassionate face—it looked completely different from mine. He asked me my age, and at that time, I listened to his counsel and put down the butcher's knife, never to engage in that trade again."
"How old were you then?"
"My father had just passed away two years prior, so I had taken over his work. In today's terms, I was about twenty-one years old."
"That is still very young, twenty-one."
"So, in total, I only slaughtered pigs for two years."
"Right, you just took over your father's business, that is all."
"Yes. Later, I often went up the mountain to find that monastic. He guided me and told me to take up a different trade. I changed to a profession that was quite unique compared to my previous one. I worked between the foot of the mountain and the temples above, helping out, and sometimes I would help carry sedan chairs."
Honest Labour and the Burden of the Past
"Oh! That is good. It is honest work, earning money through sweat without creating negative karma. That is wonderful! It is also healthy for , like exercise."
"I helped carry the sedan chairs and introduced the temples to visitors."
"That is a good deed, a very good deed. You must have been very happy every day!"
"During that time, my mother, who had been in poor health, actually started to get better. When I carried the sedan chairs, especially for wealthy families who had their mothers with them, I would talk to them. Sometimes, we could even carry them in a way where they could sit comfortably in the back. When I encountered elderly people, I would sometimes offer the service for free, or I would be very gentle and help them along."
"Like carrying a small child, being very careful. That is your kindness and at work!"
"I did not want them to be jolted too hard."
"You are a kind person, very meticulous and full of love. You must have had many customers!"
"But, to be honest, was it not tiring? My back was quite sore, and it would ache. Sometimes, there were these so-called wealthy young masters who had a rather unpleasant attitude. But that actually suited my personality perfectly! When they were being fierce, I would just turn my head, show my fierce face, and they would not dare to be rude to me anymore. My appearance finally came in handy!"
"Exactly, exactly! Hahahaha!"
"So, it really depends on how you use things. Using it like that was quite effective."
"That is true! Those arrogant young masters needed to be taught a lesson."
"Because of that, I became quite famous. People knew about me, and sometimes they would specifically request me. Many people would come up the mountain just to have me carry them."
"So you had regular clients, right? They chose your sedan chair because they said you were more stable?"
"Some people would go up the mountain once a month, others twice. Gradually, many people would look for me. They would say, 'Look for the one with the... well, the one with the very unique face.'"
"Hahahaha!"
"My face actually started to look a bit better over time. But it was strange, truly strange—as I grew older, I still never married."
"You never married? Was it because people did not like you? Was it because of that face?"
"I did go on matchmaking dates! But as soon as they saw me, the women would run away. They looked at me and felt I must have a terrible temper. In reality, I am someone who hates evil with a passion. When I see people doing bad things, I get quite anxious to change them. But my heart is very kind. Anyone who has ever been carried by me knows that I am very loving toward them. I was also very filial to my mother, so she stayed with me, and we depended on each other for survival. I was an only child, with no brothers or sisters."
"Did you take after your father or your mother?"
"It is strange, I did not look like either of them."
"There must be a reason for that! I have interviewed beings from the twenty-eighth heaven, and there is always a reason for how we descend. Have you seen the reason for your past?"
"The reason? I only know... do you want to see it? It seems I came to repay a kindness. My face, well, it is much better now. Depending on the expression I use, it looks a little different."
"Later, you continued carrying sedan chairs. How old were you when you passed away?"
"I passed away at forty-seven."
"Forty-seven, that is quite early! Why did you pass away so young? You were twenty-one when you were a butcher, then you changed your trade, and you passed away at forty-seven."
"I passed away at forty-seven. It is strange; I do not know why. My body was actually quite robust; I looked like I should have lived a very long life."
"How did you pass? Did your body start to change? Or were there any omens before you left?"
"I do not know why. As for omens, it seems there was one night, about half a year before the end."
"Half a year before you were forty-seven."
"Sleeping at night was always strange!"
"How was it strange?"
"I would hear the sound of pigs."
"The sound of slaughtering pigs? I have heard that sound before; it is not pleasant."
"It was not the sound of slaughtering, but the sound of pigs. It sounded like they were eating something delicious, as if they needed me to go and feed them."
"Did you dream of pigs? Or did you only hear the sounds?"
"The sound came through, saying they were very hungry. As I mentioned earlier, I had slaughtered pigs for two years. From that night on, before I went to sleep, my ears would always be filled with the sound of pigs. It was just like that. Naturally, I would think, 'I must go feed the pigs, I must go feed the pigs.' It was very strange that this thought would arise, urging me to go feed them—'Hurry! The pigs are hungry!' And then I would fall asleep."
"This went on for about half a month. I felt my body getting weaker and weaker; I was easily tired and easily hungry. I was both tired and hungry, and though I wanted to eat, my sense of taste seemed different. The strange thing was that sometimes the food my mother cooked, I did not want to eat at the time, but if I left it for the next meal or overnight, I would find it delicious. But then I would vomit it back up. It was just like that, continuously, slowly, I do not know why, it just happened."
"Did you pass away before your mother?"
"Yes, I passed away before my mother."
"Oh my! Your mother must have been heartbroken."
"I feel very sorry for my mother. It was something I could not help."
"On the road to the underworld, did you go directly to see the King of Hell?"
"I went to see the King of Hell while crying. My mother! Why am I here? I was crying, and at the same time, I could hear the sound of pigs—oink, oink, oink. My mother was still alive, so why was I already here?"
"What did the King of Hell say? Which hall of the King of Hell did you see?"
"It was the Third Hall."
"So it was Song Di Wang himself. You have a real affinity with him! The Third Hall is about filial piety! The King is naturally benevolent and filial, with a pure heart."
"He looked at me, and he seemed to have an impression of me... he looked at me from head to toe."
"You two seem very similar!"
"Yes! It was as if I were looking at a twin brother. He looked at me from top to bottom. I also took a look at him, and I never expected that someone else would look exactly like me, and with such an unpleasant face too! He said to me, 'Do not worry about your mother; her lifespan is also coming to an end.' When he told me not to worry, I became even more worried. Her lifespan is coming to an end—how could I not worry? I was even more anxious! He said, 'It is too late for you to go back now. How about this?' He then said to me, 'Have you heard of the Ten Kings of Hell?' In the human world, my mother had taken me to the City God Temple, and it seemed they spoke of the underworld there. I am here now, and I am speaking very carefully because I am afraid of saying the wrong thing. He said, 'In a few days, we have decided that we are all going to the so-called Hsiang Kuang Buddha-land.' They are going to the Hsiang Kuang Buddha-land."
"You only learned about our Hsiang Kuang Buddha-land at that time. Now the problem is, I do not even know your name in the human world. Please write down your name."
King Songdi: The King of the Third Hall said, "Practitioner Su of the Hsiang Kuang Buddha-land is giving talks, introducing the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss and Amitabha Buddha." The Kings of the Ten Halls have heard many of your Dharma talks, and they all wish to go to the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss. He said, "You look very much like me; let us go inside to discuss these matters." One of them led me into another room. He said, "We, the Kings of the Ten Halls, have all decided to be reborn in the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss. I had been observing you for a long time. Although you committed killing karma for two years in the human world, you were actually forced by circumstances beyond your control. Looking at your transformation in the final two years, you were truly kind to others and extremely filial to your mother. You are also like me—you hate evil with a passion—and our appearances are so similar. There is no one better to take this position. I have been reporting this to the higher realms, and I am going to the Western Land, so you shall take over this position. After you take this position, do not worry about your mother; she passed away two days after you, but because she had a kind heart, she is well."
Practitioner Su: Did she ascend to the heavens?
King Songdi: She did not ascend to the heavens; she reincarnated as a human in the human world. She did not commit any major wrongs, so she naturally reincarnated as a human. So, that is how it is! I was filled with trepidation when I saw this. I must first write down my secular name (writes down: Xu Jiaheng).
Practitioner Su: Xu Jiaheng. That is a very pleasant name. May I ask you, can one just casually become a King of the Ten Halls? Who issued the order? There must be an order from above—was it the Jade Emperor?
King Songdi: This is what they brought out!
Practitioner Su: An imperial decree?
King Songdi: It is not called an imperial decree; it is called a Jade Edict.
Practitioner Su: Let him write it down.
King Songdi: (Writes down: Jade Edict)
Practitioner Su: A Jade Edict comes from the Jade Emperor! That is correct.
King Songdi: I did not study much and do not understand much, just these two characters.
Practitioner Su: It is the Jade Emperor! One can only become a King of the Ten Halls if the order comes down from above, and only if one has sufficient conditions and has accumulated enough virtue in their lifetime.
The First Case and the Weight of Filial Piety
King Songdi: Once the Jade Edict came down, I naturally sat in this position. The first case I handled involved a couple who were extremely unfilial. They forced their father to hand over the family property and even tried to frame him. They were a couple with absolutely no conscience.
Practitioner Su: So, your very first case was an unfilial child, is that right?
King Songdi: Yes! I was furious; I was truly enraged.
Practitioner Su: Did you bring their father in?
King Songdi: I did! The old man was there too. Standing before me, my appearance was naturally intimidating, and the son was terrified. They confessed their crimes obediently. I did not even realise it myself; I never knew I had this ability. They just said, "King, we were wrong. There is no need to say anything more; we, as a couple, know we were wrong." I said, "Very well, jailers, since they know they were wrong, take them down! Drag them away!" Actually, I was confused myself. I was in charge, but the judge was there to teach me and guide me... I wondered how I could manage so many things when I knew nothing!
Practitioner Su: You just had to sign the documents as the King; they were the ones managing the details.
King Songdi: Exactly! I only had to raise my eyebrows slightly and set my jaw, and how could they not be afraid! Everyone confessed obediently.
Practitioner Su: Your eyes are terrifying to behold, and your mouth is pursed just like that—exactly the same. (Matches the portrait of King Yama in the book Illustrated Record of Cause and Effect) Hahaha!
King Songdi: They had no choice but to listen. It turns out the previous King Songdi was also like this. The judge came down and said to me, "King, you are truly exactly like the previous King!" I asked, "Exactly like him in appearance?" He replied, "Your tone is also very similar." I asked, "Is my tone similar?" "Yes, it is!" "Of course it is! Because I hate evil with a passion. Whenever I see someone unfilial, I feel a fire burning inside me; but I cannot be too arrogant, so I naturally show a stern face to frighten them."
Practitioner Su: Filial piety is very important.
King Songdi: Filial piety is the first of all virtues. It is the most important thing.
Practitioner Su: Indeed. Your testimony here (referring to Rebirth in the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss: The Kings of the Ten Halls) can save many people. If one is not filial, they will end up in the Third Hall of King Songdi—that is terrifying! One must suffer great hardships for being unfilial!
King Songdi: Heh! I do not know how to answer that.
The Mirror of Past Lives
Practitioner Su: Let us ask King Songdi again. Now that you know that the cycle of rebirth is truly terrifying, when you were Xu Jiaheng, did you create any hell-bound sins in your past lives? We have been asking everyone this, and you heard the interviews yesterday, did you not?
King Songdi: I did! I heard yesterday that everyone must look at their past lives. I knew that, but I waited until Practitioner Su called upon me to look.
Practitioner Su: I wanted you to look first. Why is your face so unattractive? Look at your previous life—why did you become so unattractive?
King Songdi: Actually, I was good-looking in my previous life.
Practitioner Su: Then why, when you were Xu Jiaheng in this lifetime, was your face not attractive?
King Songdi: Because I looked down on others.
Practitioner Su: Oh! Arrogance and looking down on others.
King Songdi: There was one time in particular when I looked down on a beggar. Besides disliking him for being dirty, I also despised his appearance. His face looked like this (makes a mentally challenged expression).
Practitioner Su: Oh! He already looked a bit intellectually disabled. Were you a wealthy person at that time?
King Songdi: I was a young master. I wore silk clothing and appeared refined. This was actually a thought that arose due to a sudden causal condition. As a young master, I walked with the air of a scholar, strolling through the market. Suddenly, I saw a group of children chasing someone: "Don't run, don't run!" This beggar, holding a cane, came limping toward me. Initially, I wanted to help him up. But as soon as I did, I was shocked myself because of his appearance. It was the first time I had seen such an ugly face. He was injured, and his mouth was twisted to one side. I felt fear and disgust from the bottom of my heart, feeling that he had dirtied my clothes.
Practitioner Su: Oh my! You lacked compassion.
King Songdi: I originally intended to help him, but I do not know why, as soon as I saw his face, a fire of confusion suddenly arose, and I pushed him away, shouting, "Get lost!" I do not know why I was like that; I had never felt such disgust. Seeing the children surrounding him and throwing stones, I did not help. I just glanced at him sideways and thought, "How ugly, hmph!" It was just that one cause.
Practitioner Su: And in this lifetime, you were born so ugly. You were born ugly because of that, is that right?
King Songdi: It was just that one cause. I was born this way because, at the final moment of my previous life, the image that surfaced was that very scene.
Practitioner Su: Oh! It entered your , then.
King Songdi: It was as if scene after scene of images kept appearing—images of me reading books, images of me walking gracefully on the street—but the final image was that one. That scene was the last thing I manifested: the act of reaching out, seeing him, feeling disgust, and thinking, "How can he be so ugly!"
Practitioner Su: Look at how terrifying the laws of karma are. You must understand that arrogance, jealousy, and looking down on others all lead to bad outcomes. You must know that your compassion was insufficient. The core of the Buddha’s teachings is to cultivate a heart of compassion! At that time, you were wealthy, but you were born as the child of a pig butcher. This serves as a warning to the world—you ended up being a sedan chair carrier for others. Look at how much you were demoted; the laws of karma are truly terrifying! Very well, let us return to the main topic. King Songdi, when you passed away at forty-seven as Xu Jiaheng, in which life did you descend into the hells?
King Songdi: I descended into the hells ten lives ago.
Practitioner Su: What were the circumstances of your descent into the hells ten lives ago?
King Songdi: I was a lay practitioner, but I lived in a temple, serving as a volunteer.
Practitioner Su: A volunteer is supposed to be accumulating merit and virtue.
King Songdi: I helped with chores, helped wash vegetables (makes a gesture of blowing on a fire).
Practitioner Su: Tending the fire. Were you a man or a woman?
King Songdi: A male volunteer.
Practitioner Su: How does a volunteer end up in the hells?
King Songdi: By disrupting the bodhimanda.
Practitioner Su: That is a very heavy sin. Serving as a volunteer in a bodhimanda is meant to cultivate both merit and wisdom, yet you ended up creating karma. This is a serious matter!
King Songdi: I sowed discord.
Practitioner Su: Women do that, but men do it too?
King Songdi: When men sow discord, they do not need many words; one or two sentences are enough.
Practitioner Su: Oh my! Namo Amituofo! Why would you do that? You were creating sinful karma!
King Songdi: Women might talk a lot, but we only need to say one or two key points. How do I say it? For example: "Senior brother, it seems the second senior brother does not hold you in high regard." That is enough, is it not?
Practitioner Su: Oh my! Namo Amituofo! Sowing discord.
King Songdi: Furthermore, "The Master seems to love him more and does not love you."
Practitioner Su: You were not even a monk, yet you wanted to sow discord. That is not good.
King Songdi: I did not know that was called sowing discord at the time.
Practitioner Su: You went to the hells just because of those two sentences?
King Songdi: I did not know it was called sowing discord then. Of course, it was not just those two sentences; I do not know why I was like that. Sometimes when pilgrims came to offer incense, I would show an arrogant face. Even though I was a volunteer, I was quite arrogant. "You want to see the Master? The Master does not seem to have time today. Hmm, go and offer prostrations to the Buddha first. I will go and ask the senior brother."
Practitioner Su: So, believers had to go through you to see the Master?
King Songdi: It accumulated naturally. I also made the fellow practitioners suspicious of one another. Those who had less practice were all influenced by me. Those without practice are the ones who are attached to gain and loss, jealousy, and obstruction—they were all hurt by me.
Practitioner Su: Were you not there to practice? Why did you go to disrupt the bodhimanda? You did not understand the practice.
King Songdi: I thought I was practicing; I did not know that was not practicing.
Practitioner Su: Do you remember what temple it was in mainland China?
King Songdi: It was a small temple.
Practitioner Su: Was it in a forest monastery?
King Songdi: It was a small temple deep in the mountains.
Practitioner Su: What was the name of the temple? Write it down for him.
King Songdi: (Writes down: Renhua Temple)
Practitioner Su: Renhua Temple, where was it located? Where in the mainland?
King Songdi: It was in the deep mountains—well, not exactly deep mountains, but it was a sparsely populated area. However, people from the nearby village would visit quite often.
Practitioner Su: It seems you had a fairly decent life at Renhua Temple.
King Songdi: Not really, there weren't many monastics there!
Practitioner Su: Did you serve there without taking a wife?
King Songdi: I was a bachelor!
Practitioner Su: Goodness! A bachelor who ended up in hell—that is truly terrifying!
King Songdi: I had no idea it would turn out like that. Do you know which hell I ended up in at the end?
Practitioner Su: Which one? The Tongue-Ripping Hell?
King Songdi: People usually associate that with women who talk too much, but in a bodhimanda, things were chaotic. To be more precise, the karma I created was exactly what the sutras describe: "One can stir the water of a thousand rivers, but one must not disturb the heart of a practitioner." I created such heavy karma by causing practitioners to have restless minds every single day. The sin was immense!
The Weight of Disturbance
Practitioner Su: Did your master not teach you? A master who is a practitioner should have known better!
King Songdi: Actually, I rarely listened to the master's teachings because I was always busy with chores. But as someone who had to go to the kitchen—the Five Contemplations Hall where the monastics ate—I always had to clear the bowls and plates. I saw everything. Honestly, my death was not a peaceful one.
Note: In the dining hall, the "Five Contemplations" are displayed. The Five Contemplations are practiced while eating to cultivate a heart of gratitude: First, calculate the effort required to produce the food and consider its origin; second, reflect on one's own virtue and whether one is worthy of the offering; third, guard the mind against faults, with greed being the primary one; fourth, treat the food as good medicine to nourish the body; fifth, accept this food only for the sake of attaining the Way.
Practitioner Su: Your experience in the Third Hall of hell was quite miserable. There is the Blood-Drinking Hell and the Maggot-Infested Hell, which are both quite tragic, but they are not the Tongue-Ripping Hell you mentioned.
King Songdi: I do not know, but I simply ended up in the Tongue-Ripping Hell.
Practitioner Su: Was that the only hell you were sent to?
King Songdi: I was also sent to the Eye-Gouging Hell.
Practitioner Su: The Eye-Gouging Hell is listed here. (Points to the Eye-Gouging Hell in the Third Hall of the Illustrated Book of Cause and Effect)
King Songdi: How many hells did I go through? I was in the Tongue-Ripping Hell and the Eye-Gouging Hell. Do you know why it is called the Eye-Gouging Hell? It is because my eyes looked upon the Buddha images, yet I dared to speak such disruptive words, dared to commit acts of destruction, and acted with complete disregard for the laws of karma and cause and effect.
The Power of Truth
Practitioner Su: By speaking this out, you can save many people. They will finally understand how magnificent a bodhimanda truly is!
King Songdi: Can this really save people?
Practitioner Su: It can save so many! Nowadays, many people in the bodhimanda get angry even when looking at Buddha images. Their thoughts are selfish. How can they be here to cultivate ? They don't understand anything, and it is truly a disaster!
King Songdi: Indeed! They are selfish and hypocritical. Why do people in the bodhimanda get sick? It is because the ghosts and spirits look down on them. Their hearts are corrupted, and listening to the sutras is all in vain. Alas!
Practitioner Su: You didn't take the teachings of the Buddha and Bodhisattvas to heart, did you?
King Songdi: That is exactly it. I only thought I was right!
Practitioner Su: Was there no one to teach you? Did the master not teach you?
King Songdi: It wasn't that I intentionally wanted to be like that, but I would just blurt things out uncontrollably. Perhaps, Practitioner Su, as you said, was I being interfered with or suffering from spiritual attachment?
Practitioner Su: Was there truly a being attached to you causing interference?
King Songdi: That is why I feel so puzzled when I look back now.
Practitioner Su: Then look back at your past lives now. Look quickly. When you were a volunteer at the bodhimanda, was someone interfering with you or attached to you? Who was it?
King Songdi: I see it is a small ghost.
Practitioner Su: A small ghost. I tell you, that small ghost had a terrible fate. Does that make sense? He used your body to create karma, so he also has sins.
King Songdi: That is why I know now. Practitioner Su, you must say this clearly: a bodhimanda is not a place to be taken lightly! The heart must be pure and kind; otherwise, once you become selfish, how can you say you won't be subject to spiritual attachment?
Practitioner Su: Correct. I see many followers in the bodhimanda who knowingly commit offenses, and their personalities are hard to change.
King Songdi: When you have selfish desires, who do you respect? No one. You only see the faults of others, so naturally, you end up gossiping about people.
Practitioner Su: This is truly terrifying. These people are here to disrupt the bodhimanda. "One can stir the water of a thousand rivers, but one must not disturb the heart of a practitioner." It is terrifying!
King Songdi: That is why I was hung by my tongue and had my eyes gouged out. I deserved my fate.
From Hell to the Owl
Practitioner Su: How long did you stay in hell?
King Songdi: I cannot calculate how long I was in hell.
Practitioner Su: If you did not repent, you could not get out, right?
King Songdi: No one taught me, so I did not know how to repent.
Practitioner Su: Listen now and understand: the bodhimanda is very important. You cannot look down on others. After you left hell, did you go through the animal realm?
King Songdi: My eyes were still blind, even in the animal realm. I was blind, and my eyes were just a slit.
Practitioner Su: What kind of creature were you?
King Songdi: I wasn't a bug. I became a beautiful creature with beautiful feathers, but I was blind in one eye, and my eyes were just a line.
Practitioner Su: An owl? Owls have eyes like that. Owls are like that.
King Songdi: Why did I become an owl with beautiful feathers? It was the merit I cultivated while volunteering at the temple.
Practitioner Su: Owl feathers are indeed beautiful. So, you cultivated that merit by being a bachelor and volunteering! How long were you an owl?
King Songdi: I was an owl for about... looking back now, I was an owl for two lifetimes. The first lifetime as an owl ended quickly, and the second lifetime seemed to be a period of waiting.
Practitioner Su: Waiting for what?
King Songdi: I do not know why, but I was just waiting—waiting for a noble person to appear.
Practitioner Su: To give you refuge? Is that it? Who gave you refuge? Is there anyone here among us who gave you refuge?
King Songdi: Yes! He didn't intentionally give me refuge. I was just on a big tree, and he was crying under the tree and happened to see me.
Practitioner Su: Who was it? Why was he crying? Come, write down the name.
King Songdi: It was a grievance. (Writes down the name) This Practitioner Zhuo.
Practitioner Su: Zhuo Shuling. What was her grievance? Was it about her emotions? Was it about her relationship? Did her husband have an affair?
King Songdi: (Nods) Emotions ruined her! But my Causal Conditions were good; she gave me refuge.
Practitioner Su: She was crying under a big tree, saw you, and gave you refuge?
King Songdi: She was studying the Buddha’s teachings at the time and often went to temples. Actually, I was afraid when I saw people, so I just watched from there. She was crying so miserably, and I was just stunned.
Practitioner Su: She is always like that regarding emotions, lifetime after lifetime.
King Songdi: Later, she wiped away her tears and looked up. She was startled and took a step back. Then she saw me, and it seemed her heart of Goodness was awakened, so she did that for me. She even used her handkerchief—like this (holds up a handkerchief and waves it slightly).
Practitioner Su: Hahaha! And after you died, you became a human again?
King Songdi: I didn't die the moment I received refuge; I died a week later.
Practitioner Su: And then you were reborn into the human world!
King Songdi: Yes! You see, receiving refuge is inconceivable. I returned to the human world.
Practitioner Su: Without the Buddha’s teachings to unlock the truth of the universe and life, we would have no hope of liberation throughout infinite kalpas.
King Songdi: It is quite miraculous. Today I have met my noble person. Oh, noble person! You must listen to the story I told today! Hahaha! Because the noble person was always supporting the temple at that time, she has tremendous blessings at the Fragrant Light Buddha-land today.
Practitioner Su: She is very generous with her Giving. Her blessings are immense. To be able to give to the Fragrant Light Buddha-land bodhimanda is truly extraordinary!
King Songdi: Noble person! Practitioner Su, may I offer her a few words of counseling?
Practitioner Su: You may, you may.
King Songdi: I saw that you were crying miserably over your husband back then. Can you let go of that now?
Practitioner Su: Her husband doesn't study the Buddha’s teachings, so she has a harder time.
King Songdi: I think you should stop crying! After all, these things are all illusions; they are all . If you don't let go, you will suffer greatly. You must let go of emotion.
Practitioner Su: Shuling sacrifices herself for the Fragrant Light Buddha-land and is constantly working on the purification of her own body and mind.
King Songdi: Practitioner Su, this bodhimanda is truly not a place for ordinary people! If one does not have a heart to seek the Way, or if one comes to cause interference, it is a sin, a great sin!
Practitioner Su: Her original personality lacked equality and she was causing interference, but I have helped her change. She has compassion now, but it is still not enough!
King Songdi: My noble person was causing interference?
Practitioner Su: If one does not follow the Six Principles of Harmony and Reverence, one is disrupting the bodhimanda.
King Songdi: Then she must change. The Six Principles of Harmony and Reverence are important! You must guard your thoughts well, keep your heart free from anger, and learn to see the good in others!
Practitioner Su: She is still quite arrogant. Sometimes she doesn't understand the principles or the benefits. She doesn't know that to save the world, one must have a heart of sincerity and respect. Once arrogance arises, no one can help her.
King Songdi: I didn't know my past was so tragic. If Practitioner Su hadn't asked me to look at my past, I wouldn't have known. Although I was a King of Hell and saw so many people coming to be judged, every person has their own past, and every person has committed different sins in their lifetime as a human. Sometimes my heart aches wondering why so many people are ignorant of the sins of hell. Why do they continue to create the karma of hell? We suffer retribution in hell. In fact, when we judge these criminals, we all hope they can change their ways, truly repent from the heart, and walk on the path of Goodness. Knowing clearly that this path leads to nowhere, why do they still choose to walk it? This is the foolish side of people in the world.
Practitioner Su: Indeed! King Songdi, the Buddha is compassionate, and Amitabha Buddha is extremely compassionate. Those who come for an interview can save their family members—your father and mother, wherever they are, can be saved. Only those in the human world cannot be saved; those in the animal realm and the ghost realm can be saved. Is there anyone you want to save?
King Songdi: My mother has become a human, and my father is in the ghost realm, still selling pork.
Practitioner Su: Goodness! Selling pork even in the ghost realm? The habits of humans are truly terrifying.
King Songdi: It is just like people in the world; the more they have attachment, the more they suffer.
Practitioner Su: How can your father attain liberation?
King Songdi: But he doesn't have to kill pigs anymore!
Practitioner Su: Then where does the pork come from?
King Songdi: "It is so strange! It just hangs there, and it seems like it will never be sold out."
Practitioner Su: "Oh! That is because it is trapped within his own space. Only the power of Namo Amituofo can open it for him."
King Songdi: "It just hangs there, displayed right here, and there are lotus leaves too. These leaves are meant for wrapping, along with the twine and the straw."
Practitioner Su: "That is just a habit. In the past, I also saw pork being sold wrapped in lotus leaves."
King Songdi: (Writes down his father's name: Xu Shiqing)
Practitioner Su: "Very well. We shall now invite the father who sold pork, Xu Shiqing."
(To the fellow practitioners) "Please make a note of this; we will perform the for him this Sunday."
Practitioner Jiaxian: "Xu Shiqing has arrived."
Practitioner Su: "Xu Shiqing, your son, Xu Jiaheng, is here now. Can you see him?"
Xu Shiqing: "I am busy selling pork; business is booming! Who is calling me, Xu Shiqing?"
Practitioner Su: "Your son is calling you. Your filial son, Xu Jiaheng, is right there. Do you see him? He has already become the King of the Third Hall of Hell."
King Songdi: "Father! Father!"
Xu Shiqing: "Oh, I am right in the middle of selling pork!"
King Songdi: "Oh! Father, please, stop selling pork!"
Xu Shiqing: "I cannot, business is just too good!"
The Futility of Greed
Practitioner Su: "Who are you earning this for? Your son is calling you, and you don't even have any other children there."
Xu Shiqing: "I never married; I am all alone."
Practitioner Su: "If you are all alone, why do you still need to sell pork?"
Xu Shiqing: "It is wonderful to have money!"
Practitioner Su: "That is why you are trapped in the ghost realm because of your greed. Xu Shiqing, where is the money now? Your real son is standing right there; what do you need money for?"
Xu Shiqing: "My son! Why are you dressed so differently today? You look so handsome!"
Practitioner Su: "Your son is a King of Hell; he is already the King of the Third Hall."
Xu Shiqing: "How did he become a King of Hell?"
Practitioner Su: "He is filial. He is filial to you!"
Xu Shiqing: "That is true! My son is truly filial."
Practitioner Su: "Here is the situation, Xu Shiqing. While you were in the ghost realm, did you listen to the Dharma talks at the Hsiang Kuang Buddha-land?"
Xu Shiqing: "Why would I listen to that?"
Practitioner Su: "Why wouldn't you? Have you ever heard of Namo Amituofo?"
Xu Shiqing: "I have heard of it. Many people go to listen, but my pork business is very good."
Practitioner Su: "Your karma is very heavy! Now, your son wants to save you and take you to the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss. If you refuse to go, you will never be able to be with your son."
Xu Shiqing: "The Western Land of Ultimate Bliss?"
Practitioner Su: "Let me show you the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss. Look ahead! It is a vast expanse of bright, golden light, while where you are is dark."
Xu Shiqing: "Wow! I have never seen anything like this. It is sparkling! What is that?"
Practitioner Su: "It is the brilliant light of the Buddha, with gold paving the ground. You can go there just by chanting Namo Amituofo."
Xu Shiqing: "I have heard of Namo Amituofo."
Practitioner Su: "That is exactly it. By chanting Namo Amituofo, you can be with your son."
Xu Shiqing: "Is there gold everywhere over there?"
Practitioner Su: "Yes, there is gold, and whatever you need, you shall have. As long as you can chant Namo Amituofo, you can go."
Xu Shiqing: "Namo Amituofo... I know how to chant that."
Practitioner Su: "Correct. You must chant Namo Amituofo with sincerity and respect."
Xu Shiqing: "Let me try chanting it now. Can I go? Namo Amituofo! (Chants loudly) That was loud enough, so why haven't I gone yet?"
Practitioner Su: "Son, please explain it to him."
King Songdi: "Father, you must be respectful to Practitioner Su."
Practitioner Su: "No need for such formalities!"
King Songdi: "Father, you must listen to what Practitioner Su teaches you. If you chant Namo Amituofo with respect, you will be saved."
Xu Shiqing: "If I listen to her, can I be with you? And will there be gold?"
King Songdi: "Yes! Father, in the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss, by chanting Namo Amituofo, you will have all the wealth you could ever want!"
Xu Shiqing: "I see it now, it is all gold!"
King Songdi: "Yes, it is! So you must chant. But first, you must listen to Practitioner Su's Dharma talks to understand how to escape suffering and the six realms of rebirth in the human world. Without listening to the Dharma, you cannot go."
Xu Shiqing: "Then what about my pork stall?"
King Songdi: "Leave it, just leave it. Put it aside for now."
Practitioner Su: "Do not go back there."
King Songdi: "You have done this before. Just stay here at the Hsiang Kuang Buddha-land and listen to the Dharma; Practitioner Su will help you."
Practitioner Su: "Forget about the stall now. Step onto the lotus seat. Take refuge in the Buddha and do not enter the hells; take refuge in the Dharma and do not fall into the hungry ghost realm; take refuge in the Sangha and do not fall into the animal realm. Xu Shiqing, step onto the lotus seat."
(To King Songdi) "Is there anyone else you wish to save?"
King Songdi: "I wish to perform some repenting."
Practitioner Su: "Is that for the beggar?"
King Songdi: "I want to save that beggar."
Practitioner Su: "What is that beggar doing now?"
King Songdi: "He is currently in the animal realm."
Practitioner Su: "Oh my! What is his name? Write it down."
King Songdi: (Writes down: Zhang Axi)
Practitioner Su: "Zhang Axi. What was your name before? You must call out to him!"
King Songdi: "Xu Jiaheng."
Practitioner Su: "No, you are not Xu Jiaheng. In your past life, you were a wealthy man. In that previous life, you wore very beautiful clothes."
King Songdi: "That is right, I was a young master. (Writes down: Chen Minwei)"
Practitioner Su: "We shall invite Zhang Axi. Chen Minwei, you must call out to him."
Practitioner Jiaxian: "What is he doing in the animal realm?"
King Songdi: "He is a rodent, a mouse, just eating and eating."
Practitioner Su: "How did he end up so miserable, becoming a mouse?"
King Songdi: "His mouth is pointed, and he is full of self-pity."
Practitioner Su: "Chen Minwei, call out to Zhang Axi."
Zhang Axi: (Mimics the movements of a mouse foraging for food)
Practitioner Su: "Take refuge in the Buddha and do not enter the hells; take refuge in the Dharma and do not fall into the hungry ghost realm; take refuge in the Sangha and do not fall into the animal realm. Let the Buddha-water wash over him. Come, let him drink the Buddha-water. Chant Namo Amituofo to dissolve the space and restore his original form. Come, Zhang Axi. Zhang Axi! You were a beggar before, how did you end up as a mouse? How could you be so miserable? Tell everyone what kind of karma you created."
The Cycle of Selfishness
Zhang Axi: "When I was a beggar, I was filthy and had nothing to eat. Sometimes, I saw mice and thought they were happier than me, so in my final moments before death, that thought led me to become a mouse."
Practitioner Su: "You thought a mouse was happier than you? Oh, Amituofo!"
Zhang Axi: "Yes. They had food to eat, and I was always covered in filth. So when I died, I happened to see a mouse, and that is how I became one."
Practitioner Su: "Oh my! The question is, what did you do in your previous life to become a beggar?"
Zhang Axi: "In my past life, I loved to speak ill of others. I was unwilling to practice Generosity; I kept everything for myself and insisted that I was always right. After I died and was reincarnated, I had nothing to eat and looked hideous. In that life, I loved to criticize others. I thought my own children were the most beautiful and everyone else's were the ugliest. I was always sharp-tongued and never let anyone have the last word!"
Practitioner Su: "This is why the principle of karma links our past, present, and future lives together. One cannot be selfish in this world. If you are selfish, the bitter retribution of the evil realms is very difficult to escape."
Zhang Axi: "No one taught me. Life after life, I have been miserable."
Practitioner Su: "Oh! The cause leads to the fruit, and the fruit creates new causes. You must be vigilant, or this cycle will never end!"
Zhang Axi: "I did not want it to be this way; it is so painful. I was ruined by my own selfishness, suffering from the karma I created myself." (Weeps)
Practitioner Su: "It is fortunate that you encountered Chen Minwei. Although he pushed you away, he has now become a King of Hell, and he has come to save you. So, for now, listen to the Dharma. During the this Sunday, by the compassion of the Buddha, you can be guided to the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss."
Zhang Axi: "But what about my ugliness? People see me and they do not like me."
King Songdi: "I am sorry!"
Practitioner Su: "I grant you refuge: Take refuge in the Buddha and do not enter the hells; take refuge in the Dharma and do not fall into the hungry ghost realm; take refuge in the Sangha and do not fall into the animal realm."
"By the compassion of the Buddha, Namo Amituofo. Your face has changed. Namo Amituofo. For now, step onto the lotus seat."
Zhang Axi: "Yes, yes, I have become beautiful! Thank you!"
Practitioner Su: "Stay on the lotus seat and listen to the Dharma. Today is only Tuesday; you must listen to the Dharma for at least a few days to understand the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss so that you can truly appreciate its goodness. You must look at your past! Zhang Axi, step onto the lotus seat, and be protected!" (To King Songdi) "King of the Third Hall, are there any others who need to be saved?"
King Songdi: "There is one more. There is someone from the Renhua Temple whom I feel I have wronged from when I was a volunteer." (Writes down the name from that time: Chen Daming)
Practitioner Su: "Who did you harm? Was it a monastic?"
King Songdi: "I spoke words of provocation. At the time, he was a monastic, and I harmed him." (Writes down the name: Shi Yongyi)
Practitioner Su: "You harmed this monastic. What is he doing now?"
Practitioner Su: "It is clear he did not practice well; they were just fighting and causing chaos."
King Songdi: "He is currently in the ghost realm, still acting as a monastic."
Practitioner Su: "How many years has it been? Like you, who are in your tenth life, it must have been a long time."
King Songdi: "He still believes he is right and thinks he has cultivated very well."
Practitioner Su: "He is in the ghost realm; has he not repented at all?"
King Songdi: "Yes, he is still in the ghost realm."
Practitioner Su: "Call out to him. Chen Daming, the lay practitioner, call out to the monastic Shi Yongyi."
Shi Yongyi: "Namo Amituofo."
Practitioner Su: "Shi Yongyi, do you recognize this Chen Daming from the past?"
Shi Yongyi: "I recognize him!"
Practitioner Su: "He provoked others to harm you; are you aware of that? You were at Renhua Temple back then. How have you been in the ghost realm for so long? How much time has passed?"
Shi Yongyi: "It has already been over six hundred years."
Practitioner Su: "Chen Daming has now become the King of the Third Hall of Hell. He now knows to repent and wants to save you, asking you to seek rebirth in the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss. Do you wish to be liberated? While in the ghost realm, have you listened to the Dharma talks at the Hsiang Kuang Buddha-land?"
Shi Yongyi: "I have listened to the Dharma talks."
Practitioner Su: "Do you wish to go to the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss now? Look at the Western Land first. You must thank King Songdi for coming to save you."
Shi Yongyi: "But I still feel that I am right."
Practitioner Su: "You still claim you are right? Is being a ghost not painful enough for you? King of Hell, he still thinks he is right; he has not suffered enough!"
King Songdi: "This... Master!"
Shi Yongyi: "What you say is correct; every word is true."
King Songdi: "It was all my fault for speaking wrongly. I repent; I have fallen into two hells because of it!"
Practitioner Su: "Chen Daming was ignorant and used double-tongued speech, employing manipulative means to sow discord and destruction. He repents, and today, due to the good Causal Conditions at the Hsiang Kuang Buddha-land, he wishes to send you to the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss."
King Songdi: "I am sorry! I repent to you. At that time, I saw that your walking and conduct were excellent and very dignified; you were truly a practitioner. When you chanted the Buddha's name, you always had such meditative concentration. You were always like that, but I compared you to the second senior brother. It was a grave sin, a grave sin! Please forgive me."
Shi Yongyi: "What you say is a fact; it has always been that way."
Practitioner Su: "Do you still want to remain a ghost? I am asking you—can you hear me? Shi Yongyi, do you hear me? You must listen to the sutras now. Chen Daming wants to save you; otherwise, you will remain trapped in the ghost realm, where you have already suffered for over six hundred years. Look at everyone here at Renhua Temple—they are all striving to become a Buddha. Do you not wish to attain Buddhahood? Do you not wish to repent? Have you been listening to the sutras? Listen now, and ascend the lotus seat. Take refuge in the Buddha, and you shall not enter the hells; take refuge in the Dharma, and you shall not fall into the realm of hungry ghosts; take refuge in the Sangha, and you shall not fall into the animal realm. Ascend the lotus seat. Cover his spirit, and let him listen to the sutras."
The Wisdom of the Third Hall
Practitioner Su: "Very well. King Song of the Third Hall, your words today have been truly profound. Do you have any final teachings to offer to the people of this world?"
King Song: "If a person in this world can draw near to a bodhimanda, it is a tremendous blessing. However, the most important aspect of a bodhimanda is that it is a place for quiet retreats; one must never disturb the meditative concentration of others! Volunteers serving at the bodhimanda, in particular, should speak less and do more—that is how one truly cultivates great blessings. Monastics practicing at the bodhimanda must also be especially mindful, as their every word and action carries significant weight. You must watch yourselves, especially regarding the karma of speech. Do not repeat the mistakes I made. Do not think that minor gossip or sowing discord is harmless; in truth, the sin is grave! This is especially true in a genuine bodhimanda of practice, where the consequences are even more severe. In reality, true practice is about accumulating merit and virtue to help all beings leave suffering behind and gain happiness!"
The Weight of Karma and Speech
Practitioner Su: "That is the truth. To be generous, to do good, and to diligently cultivate both blessings and wisdom—that is what makes a true, excellent volunteer in a bodhimanda."
King Song: "It is indeed. Such are the karmic causes, and such are the fruits; the laws of karma and cause and effect are never off by even a hair!"
Practitioner Su: "When one's habits are too heavy, it is difficult to teach or subdue them. If one does not change their arrogance, they cannot realise their true nature!"
King Song: "That is correct! This is something that requires special attention. Furthermore, in this world, one's eyes are very important. Whatever you see, you must look for the Goodness in others. You must not look down on people, nor should you divide them into high or low, superior or inferior—none of this is right. It is best to treat all people, matters, and things with a heart of compassion and equality. Do not look down on others based on what your eyes perceive; all of this carries !"
The Purity of the Fragrant Light Bodhimanda
Practitioner Su: "Just as you bear the karmic retribution on your own body, speaking of it serves as a warning. Anyone who speaks of it knows that the bodhimanda is a place of dignity. Especially here at our Hsiang Kuang Buddha-land, it is a place of purity; one must not allow a single impure thought to arise. For the fourfold assembly, the moment a negative thought arises, one immediately receives the karmic fruit. It is absolutely terrifying!"
King Song: "Moreover, when one does not understand the situation or the culture of a bodhimanda, speaking in a way that causes division is a very heavy sin. Be careful of the karma of speech. You must also be mindful to see the Goodness in others and refrain from focusing on their rights and wrongs."
Practitioner Su: "Exactly. If one chants the Buddha-name while simultaneously harbouring evil thoughts, no matter how they practice, they will never achieve rebirth in the Pure Land. Very well, we thank King Song for this interview today."
King Song: "I am grateful to Practitioner Su for giving us the opportunity to speak and to repent. I am grateful for the compassion of the Buddha."
A Shared Mission of Deliverance
Practitioner Su: "I am grateful to everyone for working together to save sentient beings with karmic affinity. Once our great task is complete, we shall all go together to the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss, to the Land of Real Reward."
King Song: "Indeed! The Kings of the Ten Halls will certainly assist Practitioner Su in saving sentient beings with karmic affinity and the many more beings who are suffering."
Practitioner Su: "I am grateful for the assistance of the Kings of the Ten Halls. Namo Amituofo."
King Song: "We, the Kings of the Ten Halls, also hope to return quickly to the Land of Real Reward, so that we may follow Amitabha Buddha, the Universal Buddha, to save all suffering beings throughout the entire Dharma Realm, and then return to save others once more."
Practitioner Su: "The Hsiang Kuang Buddha-land is currently saving people, and you must all assist and help!"
King Song: "Of course, of course! Most importantly, one must also strive in diligent practice, seeking to fulfill one's heart's vow to achieve rebirth in the Pure Land."
Practitioner Su: "Thank you, King Song. Let us chant the Buddha-name ten times to send off King Song."
(Practitioner Su leads the practitioners present in chanting the name of Amitabha Buddha ten times to send off King Song of the Third Hall.)
