The Unity of Chan and Pure Land: An Interview with Master Hongren
An Interview with the Fifth Patriarch of the Chan School in the Western Pure Land
Recorded on April 19, 2026
The Shift in Spiritual Practice
The Chan school of Buddhism traditionally emphasizes pointing directly to the human heart, establishing no written words, and contemplating the source of thoughts. However, in this modern age, such methods may no longer be entirely suitable. After all, contemporary people do not possess the same abundance of time and energy required to deeply research the profound teachings of the Buddha or to engage in the rigorous contemplation of koans. Furthermore, the level of understanding among modern practitioners often does not reach the capacity of those great, high-potential individuals of the past.
In contrast, the path emphasizes the practice of chanting Namo Amituofo all the way. This practice is designed to help all beings achieve rebirth in the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss. While it may appear simple and plain on the surface, it is, in truth, profoundly deep and infinitely vast.
A Reflection from the Western Pure Land
I have been granted the opportunity to accept this interview. Having resided in the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss for approximately ten years, I can confirm that this is truly a magnificent world of supreme purity and brightness. I am currently learning the principle that Chan and Pure Land are not two separate paths, and I wish to share these insights with all of you.
The Chan school that I practised during my time in the human world was not as magnificent as the Pure Land path. This is not to say that one gate is superior to another; rather, it is a matter of whether the beings in the human world possess the necessary capacity to practise Chan effectively. In this chaotic era, where demons dance in confusion and countless illusory spaces manifest, how can one avoid being disturbed or controlled by these forces during meditation without sufficient meditative concentration? This was precisely my situation when I passed away and was reborn into the heavenly realms. That was the illusory state of the dying moment; without the Buddha-name and the support of the Buddha's , I was unable to be reborn in the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss.
The Illusion of the Final Moment
The Chan methods I practised during my life did not focus on the recitation of the Buddha's name. My manifestation today is intended to let everyone know that even though I was honoured as the highest Chan master of my time and served as the teacher for numerous Chan disciples, it was still difficult to withstand the tests of the demon crowds at the moment of death. The illusions I saw at that final hour were both my and the phantoms manifested by the demon crowds. Their purpose was to prevent me from leaving the worldly realm and to ensure I could not be reborn in the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss, leaving me with no choice but to be reborn into the heavenly realms.
The twenty-eight levels of the heavenly realms may seem profound and high, but compared to the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss, they are vastly inferior. The lifespan in the heavenly realms is limited. As long as I remained within the worldly realm, those karmic creditors had the opportunity to seek revenge, causing me to cycle through the six realms of rebirth for countless eons. In this way, a lifetime of practice could be considered a failure at the very last step. Moreover, if one cannot hear the Buddha's teachings while in the heavenly realms, one's spirituality cannot be elevated. Enjoying blessings in the heavenly realms is merely a futile consumption of one's own accumulated blessings; one cannot transform these blessings into merit and virtue, nor can one resolve the conflicts with one's karmic creditors.
The Path of True Liberation
If one is able to practise the Pure Land Dharma Gate and hold firmly to the Buddha-name, truly making the vow to chant and be reborn in the Western Pure Land, then one's status, position, or personal achievements become entirely irrelevant. To be reborn in the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss is to be a truly great practitioner. Practitioner Su has manifested in the human world this time, using the power of his awakened to save immeasurable and boundless beings. Some of these beings have been reborn in the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss, some have been reborn in the human or heavenly realms, and a vast number of beings are currently in the Dharma-Nature Land, waiting for the time when Practitioner Su returns to the West so that they may be reborn in the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss together.
The power of such majesty and merit is truly beyond words. It is extremely difficult for beings in the worldly realm to be reborn in the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss. This is not merely a problem of individual practice; it is due to the Five Turbidities of this world:
- The Kalpa Turbidity: The corruption of the era itself.
- The View Turbidity: The corruption of our perspectives and understandings.
- The Affliction Turbidity: The corruption of our emotions and mental states.
- The Being Turbidity: The corruption of the beings themselves.
- The Life Turbidity: The corruption of the lifespan and vitality.
Everything here is turbid, which refers to contamination and the infinite, boundless illusory spaces that surround us. To maintain purity and goodness, to make the vow to be reborn in the Western Pure Land, and to remain unmoved amidst countless illusions, spatial phantoms, and the interference of demon crowds—to possess such great meditative concentration and to use that concentration to return to the Western Pure Land—this must be the manifestation of a Buddha or who has come again.
The Unparalleled Concentration of Practitioner Su
In this world, there is no practitioner whose meditative concentration is as profound as that of Practitioner Su. Although Practitioner Su does not engage in formal sitting meditation, his attainment far surpasses that of the great masters of the Zen tradition. The fundamental reason for this is that Practitioner Su is already a resident of the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss. His meditative concentration is akin to the deep, profound state found within the Land of Eternally Quiescent Light of the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss.
He remains immersed in the Buddha-name twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week. It is precisely because of this constant state of concentration that he is able to endure the relentless attacks from demon crowds who cast spells to attack his body. Despite these assaults, he remains completely unmoved, filled with Dharma , and even feels a sense of happiness knowing that these demonic beings can be saved. The depth of such meditative concentration is not something that can be easily described in simple terms.
Fearless in the Face of Adversity
Because he possesses such profound meditative concentration, Practitioner Su is able to perform the work of across the ten directions with immense power. He reaches into the Earth, the entire universe, the Milky Way, the realms beyond the heavens, and the domains of demonic beings and ancient demons. He is even able to penetrate the deepest, most powerful spaces of old demons, entering these realms to save the beings trapped within. Every time he breaks through these major spaces, he inevitably triggers a backlash from the demon crowds, which causes Practitioner Su to suffer great physical pain.
However, with his level of meditative concentration, Practitioner Su is able to perceive all physical sensations as empty. His body is inherently void and pure, without a single flaw. Therefore, he remains unaffected by these attacks and continues his work of saving beings. Under the pressure of these demonic assaults, his efforts to save beings do not diminish; rather, they increase, and he advances without ever retreating. This manifestation of meditative concentration, displayed while saving the world and its beings, can truly be called the great fearlessness, the great majestic power, and the great merit of a Buddha or Bodhisattva.
The Profound Truth of the Pure Land Dharma Gate
There are many subtle spaces that Practitioner Su has broken through one by one. Each of these spaces contains its own environment, and the illusory realms within them are infinite. If one does not possess sufficient attainment, one will be turned by these environments instead of being able to transform them. If one were to attempt to break through such deep spaces without the necessary meditative concentration, one would surely become lost in the layers of endless space.
From this, we can see the true power of this meditative concentration. It is through the supreme and profound meditative concentration of the Pure Land Dharma Gate—the practice of chanting the Buddha-name—that one is able to save demon crowds and broadly rescue immeasurable and boundless beings. This is the magnificent nature of the Pure Land Dharma Gate, yet it has been misunderstood by the world for a long time. Do not underestimate the depth of the meditative concentration found within the Pure Land Dharma Gate. If one mistakenly believes that only the sitting meditation of the Zen tradition leads to true attainment, one is very far from the truth.
A Universal Mission of Deliverance
While sitting meditation can lead one to the heavenly realms, the meditative concentration of Practitioner Su, achieved through chanting the Buddha-name, allows him to travel with incomparable speed, reaching every corner of the ten directions in an instant. Namo Amituofo also manifests as the Universal Buddha, using his supreme and incomparable power to accompany Practitioner Su in saving beings across every space.
In this recent mission, all beings within the space-time dimensions of China—spanning five thousand to ten thousand years—have been saved. This includes the physical world—the mountains, rivers, plants, trees, insects, ants, birds, and beasts—all have been able to receive salvation. Because of the Causal Conditions of this mission to save the ancient spaces of China, I have been granted the opportunity to be interviewed and to share with everyone my deeper understanding of the Pure Land and Zen traditions, as seen from the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss.
I am deeply grateful to Namo Amituofo and Practitioner Su for giving me this opportunity to express what I have learned and realised in the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss.
Namo Amituofo
Hongren
More from Import
Article Test - Title
The Silent Cries of the Famine
This is a record of an interview with Yuma Dan, who sought Chao Du at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre in Australia. He now resides in the Western Land of Dharma Nature. This account reflects upon his life during the Indian famine under British rule approximately two hundred years ago. Recorded by the chief writer, Fa Ning, on May 24, 2026.
The Lesson of the Kettle-Mender: A Reflection from the Western Pure Land
This is a record of an interview with Venerable Dixian, who sought Chao Du at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre in Australia. He now resides in the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss. This account reflects upon his life and his journey to the Pure Land. Recorded by the chief writer, Venerable Fa Hui, on May 12, 2026.
A Merchant’s Vision for the Dharma
A former Ming Dynasty merchant and educator shares his reflections on his transition to the Western Land of Dharma Nature and offers strategic insights on spreading the Buddha's teachings in modern China.
More by Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre
The Final Curtain Call of Chu Ke-liang
A candid reflection from the late Taiwanese entertainer Chu Ke-liang on his life, his career, the karmic weight of his influence, and his ultimate deliverance to the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss.
The Soul's True Equality: A Conversation with Mahatma Gandhi
This is a record of an interview with Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi, who sought deliverance at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre in Australia. He now resides in the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss. This account reflects upon his life and his journey to the Pure Land.
A Reflection from the Western Pure Land
This is a record of an interview with Zhao Puchu, who sought deliverance at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre in Australia. He now resides in the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss. This account reflects upon his life in the 20th century. Recorded by the chief writer, Shi Fa Hui, on April 18, 2026.
The Truth Behind My Rebirth: A Message from Liu Suqing
Liu Suqing, the elder sister of the renowned practitioner Liu Suyun, shares her harrowing journey through the spirit realms and her ultimate deliverance to the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss through the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre.
The Burden of a Historical Name
This is a record of an interview with Lin Biao, who sought Chao Du at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre in Australia. He now resides in the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss. This account reflects upon his life approximately 54 years ago. Recorded by the chief writer, Shi Fa, on May 18, 2026.
The Poet’s Journey to the Western Pure Land
A reflection on the life, tragedy, and ultimate spiritual liberation of the ancient statesman Qu Yuan, who found peace through the teachings of Practitioner Su.
About the Author
Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre
Contributed to Pure Land Buddhism knowledge library