This is a record of an interview with Laozi (Li Er), who sought deliverance at the Hsiang Kuang Buddhist Centre in Australia. He now resides in the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss. This account reflects upon his life approximately 2,500 years ago. Recorded by the chief writer, Fa Ning, on April 5, 2026.
Laozi speaks:
". I am Laozi, born Li Er. In the time of the Zhou Dynasty, I served as the official in charge of the national archives. When I witnessed the decline of the Zhou Dynasty, I departed on a cart pulled by a blue ox. As I passed through the Hangu Pass, the gatekeeper, Yin Xi, who possessed the art of observing qi, recognised me as a man who had attained the Truth. He implored me to write down the Tao Te Ching, which is the origin of those five thousand words that have since been shared with the world.
The Great Way is non-action, and the sage speaks not. At the beginning of heaven and earth, it existed before the manifestation of the Emperor. In the Fragrant Light Buddha-land, this is the only truth. The six-character Buddha-name breaks through the myriad illusions."
The Journey Beyond the 28th Heaven
"After I passed away, I entered the twenty-eighth heaven of the celestial realm. For approximately two thousand five hundred years, I resided there as a celestial being in the highest level, the Heaven of Neither Perception nor Non-Perception. It was only when I received the of Practitioner Su, who guided me to the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss, that I was finally able to break free from the shackles of the cycle of rebirth.
In the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss, I follow Namo Amituofo in my practice, standing alongside the other residents as a member of the holy assembly. Regardless of the type of being—whether one who attained rebirth while still carrying , or a practitioner who transformed their karma and knew the time of their departure in advance—all in the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss enjoy the various merits and dignities bestowed by Namo Amituofo. In this world, established by the Forty-eight Great Vows of the Buddha, we are blessed with the support of Namo Amituofo and possess the capabilities of sages. The meritorious power of the holy assembly in the Western Land is inconceivable; it is entirely a manifestation of the great compassion and vow-power of Namo Amituofo."
as the Root of Suffering
"While I was still in the Zhou Dynasty, Kong Zhongni—known to the world as Confucius—once came to pay his respects. He viewed me as a sage and honoured me as his teacher; this was a remarkable karmic affinity. His teachings and his methods for educating sentient beings were, in essence, the same as what I expressed in the Tao Te Ching, though they carried different names. While many in the world believe there are differences between our teachings, their foundations are identical; they are one and the same.
Later, Confucius also ascended to the twenty-eighth heaven. When we met there, I felt a resonance in my heart and could not help but smile. Yet, at the same time, I had a lingering thought: could the realm of this twenty-eighth heaven be surpassed? Eventually, we were both guided by Practitioner Su to the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss. This was the result of the good karmic affinities we had cultivated with Practitioner Su in the past; now that the conditions had matured, we were granted this magnificent opportunity to enter the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss.
For the grace of Practitioner Su, Li Er has no way to repay it. Namo Amituofo is the supreme Buddha of the spiritual realms, and the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss is the highest realm of spirituality—extremely pure, extremely good, without suffering, and filled with ultimate . Here, there is no limit to the lifespan of one's spirit. There is only pure practice, naturally receiving the teachings of Namo Amituofo, elevating one's spirit, and eventually attaining Buddhahood."
The Truth of the Temporary Body
"In that life, I lived for over two hundred years. To the people of the world, this is a shockingly advanced age, but to me at the time, it was simply natural. In truth, the limitations on the lifespan of the human body are due to the aging and mutation of the body's cells, which lead to the problems of aging, illness, and death. Most people in the world find it difficult to overcome this barrier because they have a fundamental misunderstanding of this body. This body is actually the root of all suffering and problems; this is a truth that I, Laozi, understood very clearly.
There is a saying: 'Being favoured or humiliated is like being startled; value this great affliction as your own body.' To be favoured is to be startled, and to be humiliated is also to be startled; this is what it means to be startled by favour and humiliation. Why do I have great afflictions? Because I have a body. If I had no body, what afflictions would I have? This was the path of self-cultivation that I, Li Er, followed while in the world. It is the understanding that this body is the root of all disaster. Once one understands this principle, one can live without contention and without blame."
The Wisdom of Water and the Path
"To the people of the world, water appears to change according to its environment without harming it; it is an extremely yielding substance. It is said that 'the highest goodness is like water.' Water benefits all things without contention and dwells in places that others despise; therefore, it is close to the Tao. To achieve such a state, the fundamental requirement is to truly see through this body. It is precisely because we have a body that it becomes the root of all disaster. Only by seeing through it can one truly achieve a state of not contending with people or events, and like water, benefit all things without coming into conflict with them.
Even the teaching of 'focusing on the belly rather than the eyes, leaving the latter and choosing the former' is meant to tell people that all the desires of this body—including what the eyes see, the ears hear, the tongue tastes, and even what the heart craves, desires, and is greedy for—will lead one into the outcome of aging, illness, and death, causing the body to age and become diseased.
In those days, I actually possessed the ability to communicate with all things. I could communicate with the myriad things, and I could clearly see the various sounds within my own body. It was precisely because I understood that there were countless sounds—that is, countless sentient beings—existing within this body that I concluded that 'this body is a great affliction.' My path of longevity and salvation was built upon this, attempting to pacify the beings within my body so they would not become restless and harm this vessel. However, how to fundamentally resolve the conflict with the beings within the body was something I did not know at the time."
The Inconceivable Power of the Buddha-Name
"In the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss, I see that Practitioner Su is constantly working to let the people of the world know that 'Namo Amituofo is residing at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre.' This is done with the hope of promoting the education of the Buddha's teachings to more places, giving people the opportunity to awaken upon hearing the Great .
When Practitioner Su gives Dharma talks, I am actually one of the listeners. At the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre, Namo Amituofo is residing there 24/7, and it is a space that is actually connected to the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss. In my life of practice, I realised the principle that 'the sage acts without contention.' Because I deeply understood the benefits of non-action, using the softest things in the world to overcome the hardest, I practised the teaching of silence. Because I knew that all principles in the world are relative—good and not good, beauty and ugliness, long and short, high and low—they all arise in opposition. Only after listening to Practitioner Su's Dharma talks did I understand why I, Li Er, stopped at the twenty-eighth heaven and failed to escape the cycle of rebirth. It was because I did not thoroughly understand the space of the cells and the matter of . Although my spirit was pure enough to enter the highest level of the celestial realm, I failed to truly transform my karma from the root.
Practitioner Su has demonstrated the achievement of the through five years of practice and . To this day, Practitioner Su delivers sentient beings throughout the vastness of the Dharma Realm, the Earth, the universe, and the Milky Way. The fundamental reason is that Practitioner Su practices the Pure Land Dharma, truly educating the countless cellular beings within the body from the inside. Using the supreme meritorious power of the six-character Buddha-name, 'Namo Amituofo,' Practitioner Su transforms all the cells of the body into a state of pure goodness. When awakening occurs, the countless cellular beings within the body also awaken together. This is what I have observed from the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss. Compared to my own practice while in the world, Practitioner Su is much more proactive because of a more thorough understanding of the 'Tao'—that is, a true understanding of universal principles, the Truth, and the righteous path. This proactivity lies in Practitioner Su's active delivery of beings, active self-delivery, active changing of personality traits, active education of the cellular beings within the body, and active salvation of the world. This was the key element that was missing in my own practice."
A Model for All Practitioners
"In the Tao Te Ching, I proposed: 'The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao; the name that can be named is not the eternal name. The nameless is the beginning of heaven and earth; the named is the mother of all things. Therefore, always be without desire to observe its mysteries; always be with desire to observe its manifestations. These two come from the same source but have different names; they are both called profound. Profound and more profound, the gateway to all mysteries.' Watching Practitioner Su deliver sentient beings from the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss, I have come to realise that this 'Namo Amituofo' is the beginning of heaven and earth, the mother of all things, and the gateway to all mysteries. This 'Namo Amituofo' is the very substance of the Tao, because this Buddha-name contains all the merits of all Buddhas of the ten directions and three periods of time—it contains all the merits of Namo Amituofo. It is truly the 'Great Name of Myriad Merits.'
Because Practitioner Su has unwavering faith in this six-character Buddha-name and holds the great vow to save sentient beings, Practitioner Su is truly able to unleash the supreme meritorious power of this Buddha-name. In the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss, I see Practitioner Su using countless manifestations of the spirit day and night to deliver beings everywhere. The land of China often receives the grace of Practitioner Su, because Practitioner Su frequently uses these countless manifestations in every corner and every space of China, bringing the brilliant light of Namo Amituofo. I see that under the twelve rays of Buddha-light, immeasurable and boundless suffering spirits are sent into the light and obtain deliverance; there are even countless demons who, upon receiving the illumination of the Buddha-light, enter the Western Land of Dharma Nature, are reborn, and gain a new life.
Practitioner Su is truly of one heart, one vow, and one path with the Buddha; no wonder Practitioner Su can evoke the presence of Namo Amituofo at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre. Practitioner Su, with the body of one who has awakened and attained Buddhahood in the human world, coordinates with Namo Amituofo in the spiritual realm. With the conditions of Dharma affinity matured in this world, Practitioner Su has saved immeasurable and boundless beings. This is truly an unprecedented feat. Seeing this from the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss, I am always filled with Dharma joy and yearn for it.
When Practitioner Su performs , the reliance is on the vow to save the world and the sincere faith in the six-character Buddha-name of 'Namo Amituofo.' Using this 'Namo Amituofo,' Practitioner Su opens up infinite dimensions and saves the beings within them; this is truly bringing the meritorious power of the Buddha-name to its ultimate potential. In the process of delivering beings, Practitioner Su takes on the suffering of sentient beings with this body and has endured much harm, paying a great price. Even so, the delivery continues. I can see that Practitioner Su has truly let go of this body. Just as Practitioner Su says in the teachings, understanding that this body is false, it is used to 'borrow the false to cultivate the true,' and even more so, it is used to save sentient beings. This is what one might call the 'technology within technology.' Practitioner Su has truly achieved what the Buddha taught, and by following the teachings, has obtained such magnificent ability to save sentient beings. This is a model that every practitioner should learn from.
Furthermore, Practitioner Su is able to truly not grow old, not get sick, and the spirit does not die, all because Practitioner Su's body is truly pure and good, and every cell within the body shares the same vow to save the world and deliver beings, all existing in a state of pure goodness. In such a state, every cellular being and Practitioner Su are no longer in a relationship of karmic creditors and debtors, but are fellow practitioners working together to save sentient beings. This truly fills me with admiration; this is the true path of longevity and salvation!
I am very grateful to Namo Amituofo and Practitioner Su for leading me to the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss. If not for this magnificent karmic affinity, I think that when my celestial lifespan ended, I might not have known where I would be wandering in the six realms of existence, enduring endless suffering in the cycle of rebirth. This is a world of difference compared to having the opportunity to attain Buddhahood in the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss. Now that Namo Amituofo is residing at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre, I hope that those with karmic affinity can come to the temple to see the Buddha and seek the Dharma. This will bring about a earth-shattering transformation in your life, because the Buddha can resolve the confusion in people's hearts and clear the blockages within. Coming to the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre to receive the education of the Buddha's teachings gives you the opportunity to be like Practitioner Su—to attain Buddhahood and save sentient beings. That is when one truly makes the most of the human body, not wasting this life, and living out its true value."
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