This interview features the Sage Ke Nan, a being from the Buddha- Realm of the Four Sacred Realms. Having been saved by Practitioner Su and guided to the of Ultimate Bliss, Ke Nan shares his profound reflections on his past life, the nature of suffering, and the universal truth of equality. This session was recorded on October 19, 2021, by Venerable HaiZe at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre.
Venerable HaiZe speaks: I respectfully invite the Sage Ke Nan, from the Buddha-Dharma Realm of the Four Sacred Realms, who was saved by Practitioner Su and guided to the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss, to accept this interview.
Sage Ke Nan speaks: ". Ke Nan has been waiting for this day for nearly a year; everyone has been extremely busy."
Venerable HaiZe speaks: "Namo Amituofo, my apologies! Sage Ke Nan, because the pandemic has claimed so many lives in recent times, many demon crowds from the pandemic have come to the temple and been subdued by Practitioner Su, and we have conducted several interviews regarding them. Furthermore, Goombungee and Toowoomba in Australia were suffering from a water shortage, and Practitioner Su successfully prayed for rain. Because these matters were urgent, we conducted those interviews first. Consequently, the interviews with the sages of the Four Sacred Realms were delayed. Now that the interviews with the demon crowds have temporarily concluded, we continue with the sages of the Buddha-Dharma Realm."
The Collective of Humanity
"We in the Western Pure Land are also aware of these events. Since ancient times, the epidemics we have heard of were mostly limited to a specific province or region. The current situation is different because of the changes in global dynamics; through mutual communication and interaction, everyone is aware of each other's movements, causing the pandemic to influence one another. This is the collective karma of all beings, a matter that everyone must face together.
Although Ke Nan resides in the Buddha-Dharma Realm, what I have seen and heard in the Western Pure Land during these days—witnessing Namo Amituofo residing at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre, and the efforts Practitioner Su has made to save beings from the pandemic and to cultivate and teach the fourfold assembly of monks and nuns—has left me deeply moved and humbled. If it were not for Practitioner Su saving the celestial beings of the twenty-eight heavens, the immortals, and us sages of the Four Sacred Realms and guiding us to the Western Pure Land, I would still be fixed in the Buddha-Dharma Realm, unaware of the suffering in the human world. In the magnificent learning environment of the West, I dare not waste a single second. Although one year in the human world is but a fleeting moment in the West, I know that Practitioner Su, whether through the deliverance of Dharma bodies in the morning or the three times a week, delivers immeasurable and boundless beings into the Western Pure Land at every moment. Such a grand spectacle is hard to believe if not witnessed personally—that one can practice to realise one's true nature while in a human body and allow the to function to its fullest extent. At this time, when Namo Amituofo is manifesting in the world, the fourfold assembly and those with karmic affinity in the human world should follow closely. There will come a day when you can realise your true nature, find your original self, and attain Buddhahood. Enter the clear and open path, save your spirit, achieve ultimate liberation, and like Practitioner Su, be able to travel freely to and from the Western Pure Land to find the final destination of your spirit. This makes me reflect on the lifetime I lived before entering the Buddha-Dharma Realm."
A Life Born of a Vow
"Ke Nan was born three thousand years ago in the ancient Indian city of Badaha. At that time, the Buddha’s teachings were unheard of. Many practitioners engaged in extreme asceticism, overcoming the limits of . Those who survived were worshipped as masters, or they would enter deep meditative states where the spirit would not return to the body, causing the body to decay while the spirit drifted away. I was born into a poor family. My mother died from excessive bleeding during childbirth. My father worked hard to support our family of ten. I was the eighth child, and there was little time for my father to grieve. My ten-year-old sister took on the household chores. I was born very thin and small, but I had a voracious appetite. Because I was always in pain from hunger, I often wore a bitter expression, yet I learned early on that crying was useless. My father thought I would not survive and ignored me, but thanks to my sister's care, I lived.
In truth, my innate ability for reading minds had not faded from my past life, so I could read everyone's heart, especially when their emotions fluctuated. I kept this ability secret. Despite my small stature and lack of hair, I remained optimistic. My smile was my trademark. I was grateful to be alive. By the age of two, I could walk, though unsteadily. My mind, however, was sharp. I had made a vow to save the lower-class people and help them escape the suffering marked upon them from birth. In my previous life, I was born into a high-ranking noble family in India. I lived a life of luxury but felt sorrow for the servants who had to grovel before us. I felt this was unfair. Before I died in that life, I told myself: 'Life is equal and precious. I hope to be born into a poor family to understand their lives and see if I can help them.' Thus, after I died, I naturally chose to be reborn into my mother's womb, and I remembered everything clearly.
I was born into this life because of my vow. To me, cause and effect were things to be accepted with . I was a spirit without burdens, now just inhabiting a body. I had no complaints, which is why I could survive in that social stratum. I observed the world with my mind-reading ability and saw how everyone struggled for basic survival. By the age of five, I was the smallest in the family, but I played happily with my siblings. Water was precious, and I learned to be frugal. By ten, I was articulate. Because I simply observed without overthinking, my mind-reading ability remained as pure as when I was born."
The Natural Order of Life
"One afternoon, I saw ants moving. I asked them through my mind, 'Where are you going?' They pointed forward, saying, 'We are moving because a mantis is attacking us.' I asked the mantis why they attacked, and they replied that the ants were stealing their food. I realised that in the world of insects, there is a natural order: the strong prey on the weak. This cycle continues endlessly. In Indian society, people were born into fixed castes. No one protested; they silently accepted this inequality. I was only ten, but I observed that without sufficient power, any voice of protest would be weak and ignored. I decided to keep my abilities hidden until necessary to avoid misfortune. This was my way of keeping calm—temporarily not seeking change.
I heard my father tell my brother, 'This status is left by our ancestors; no one can change it.' My sisters were sent to work as servants in wealthy households, destined to stay there until they died. I felt deep sorrow. My father had no power to protect us. I also possessed 'eye-sight' [the ability to see spirits], which my father once noticed. He warned me, 'Do not speak of it, or you will be killed as an anomaly.' I understood the darkness of this world.
One night, I heard a voice calling 'Ke Nan.' I saw the spirit of my eldest sister. She told me she had been bullied by her master, abused by the mistress, and forced to take an abortion drug, which led to her death. I was heartbroken. My father could only set up a simple memorial tablet for her. I realised that in this class, life and death were worthless. I told my father I wanted to go into the mountains to find my abilities and help everyone escape this suffering. He agreed, though he could not help me. I was twelve."
The Path of Asceticism
"Asceticism was considered the way to liberation. I entered the deep forest, unafraid. The trees covered the sky, and the atmosphere turned cold. I saw many thin spirits—the spirits of ascetics who had died there. I communicated with them, asking why they remained. They replied, 'We thought that by enduring extreme suffering, we would exhaust our karma and be liberated. But when our bodies rotted, our spirits were trapped here!' I asked how long they had been there, and they said perhaps a thousand years. I wondered if there was any escape.
I met an old man sitting under a tree. He knew I could read his mind. I sat down and mimicked his meditation. I was hungry and thirsty, but he offered me a piece of dried bread and water. I realised that the body is a great burden. I concluded that to solve inequality, one must work from the heart. One must build a firm conviction that regardless of how one is treated, if the heart is kind and firm, it will not change. The problem is not how others treat us, but how we cultivate our own hearts.
I asked the old man how to remain unaffected by hunger or unfair treatment. He said, 'This requires meditative concentration. If the spirit is fixed, it will not be affected by the body's suffering.' I asked how to achieve this. He explained that one must believe in oneself and endure. I survived the first three days without food or water. The old man told me he only drank a little water and could maintain his body for months if his spirit left it. I finally understood that the body is the greatest obstacle to practice. One must find a balance where the spirit is not controlled by the body.
I asked where my spirit went during those three days. He told me to settle my heart and listen. I heard my heartbeat and breath slow down until I felt a profound stillness. I realised that many things exist and happen naturally. By following this natural state, the body and spirit can coexist harmoniously. If the spirit is pure, it can guide the body to change. If the body is turbid, the spirit's commands cannot be executed. This turbidity comes from . If the spirit leaves a pure body, the body remains intact; if it leaves a turbid body, the body is destroyed by creditors. Ascetics seek to purify the body through suffering, but I found a better way: purifying the spirit and body through the right method."
The Sage's Guidance
"The old man was 102 years old. I knelt and asked to follow him. He asked why I came, and I said, 'To find a way to resolve the unequal caste system.' He asked if I had found it. I shook my head and nodded. I had found the method—working from the heart—but I didn't know how to help others achieve it. He told me to leave the forest and apply my insights to real life. I thanked him, and he gave me a yellow note with an address, telling me to seek help if I ever reached a dead end.
I left the forest at thirteen. A dog led me to a hunter who was paralysed. I saw the spirits of the animals he had hunted pressing down on him. I told him to repent. He did so sincerely, and the spirits left. He recovered. He then asked me to help a noblewoman who was dying. I saw she was covered in insect spirits—the spirits of insects she had killed by burning a sorcerer's house. I told her to perform acts of generosity and dedicate the merit to them. She did, and she recovered. I realised that even animals and insects have spirits that seek revenge. This is the truth of equality: all life is equal, and this truth is not changed by human caste systems. If society respected life, much tragedy could be avoided.
I spent my life promoting this concept of equality. I was called the 'Kind Man Ke Nan.' I trained followers to purify their bodies and minds so they could see the spirit world and help others. However, I was eventually betrayed by a faction of nobles who poisoned me. I was saved by the person mentioned on the old man's note. I continued my work until I passed away at forty, having fulfilled my vow. I entered the Buddha-Dharma Realm, where I spent three thousand years in deep meditation."
A New Light
"Three thousand years later, I was awakened by the powerful sound of the Buddha-name 'Namo Amituofo.' It was a voice from the human world, from Practitioner Su at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre in Australia. This sound transcended time and space! I saw the Buddha-light radiating from the temple, reaching into the void. I learned that this was the light of Amitabha Buddha, released through Practitioner Su. In the Thrice Yearning Ceremonies, countless spirits heard the Buddha-name and entered the light to reach the Western Pure Land.
I am deeply impressed that Practitioner Su can also radiate such Buddha-light. For a human being to reach such a level and vow to save immeasurable beings is truly precious! I praise Namo Amituofo for tirelessly guiding all beings to the West. This is the most noble work, worthy of our respect and study. I followed the celestial beings to offer auspicious clouds at the temple, hoping to enter the Western Pure Land. Through the of Namo Amituofo and Practitioner Su, our wish was granted. Now, in the West, I continue my learning.
