This interview features Mo Fu-zhong, an old demon with a history spanning 750 trillion years, who sought at the Hsiang Kuang Buddhist Centre in Australia. He now resides in the . This account was recorded and transcribed by ’s disciple, Venerable HaiZe, on May 14, 2025.
Mo Fu-zhong speaks:
"Namo Amituofo. I am Mo Fu-zhong. I come from the Realm and am an old demon with a history of 750 trillion years. Being interviewed here at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre in Australia is a truly extraordinary event for me. I never imagined that I would undergo such a transformation, and when it finally happened, it completely overturned my role in the demon realms, leading me directly into a world of light. Moving from darkness to light has indeed been a profound shift, driven by a powerful force of transformation.
The Power of a Vow
This transformative force comes from a practitioner on Earth—Practitioner Su. During this time, Practitioner Su has brought immense shock to the Dharma Realm and the demon realms. Because of his appearance and his work in Chao Du, the lives of many demon crowds have been thoroughly changed. The method of this change is bringing these beings into the Western Dharma-Nature Land. Why can demon crowds now go to a place that was once completely disconnected from them? The key lies in the vow of Practitioner Su. The most magnificent aspect of the Buddha’s teachings is the 'vow.' Once a vow is made and one follows it, there is a possibility of realisation. Many Buddhas and Bodhisattvas throughout history had to make vows before they could achieve Buddhahood. This has long been a universal principle, a Truth, and the righteous path. As long as one follows this method, one can realise their wishes. Of course, the process requires various trials and tests. Otherwise, how could one prove they have the ability to be the one who fulfils that vow? Becoming a Buddha is not easy, and of course, becoming a demon also requires specific Causal Conditions to produce such . Buddhas and demons have been two extreme forces in the universe since ancient times—the positive side of the Buddha’s teachings and the negative side of the demon realms. Where there is a Buddha, there must be a demon; where there is a demon, there must be a Buddha. This oppositional relationship exists in every space and direction.
From Darkness to Light
I was not so convinced of this originally, but since entering the Western Dharma-Nature Land and coming into contact with the light of the Buddha’s teachings, I have compared it to my 750 trillion years of experience in the demon realms and deeply realised that this is the Truth. Buddhas and demons were originally roles that could not coexist, but now it seems that the opposition is mostly caused by demons, not by Buddhas. The Buddha’s capacity for tolerance is vast; even ancient old demons like us can be subdued. Furthermore, there is a Western Dharma-Nature Land in the human world specifically for receiving these subdued old demons from the spiritual realms. Having a place to go is one thing; more importantly, the Buddha can actually transform the life of an old demon! Transitioning from a life of darkness into the Buddha’s world of light is an extremely difficult change.
A Humble Beginning in the Demon Realm
In my 750 trillion years, my experience began as an unknown little demon. At that time, I was very ordinary, but I was obedient, sensible, and did not ask many questions. I simply worked quietly and completed the tasks assigned by the great demons. To accomplish these tasks, I had to improve my own abilities; otherwise, I could not handle them. For a great demon, these tasks might be easy, but for a little demon just entering the demon path, they were full of difficulties. When I completed them one by one, the great demons began to look at me with respect. This new demon, who was not big and not strong, could actually do things other little demons could not. In my view, these were just my duties. At the time, I did not even understand what a 'demon' was. As I grew older, I realised I was already in the demon realms.
Actually, before entering the demon realms, I was a simple child. Later, I was taken away by demons, perhaps because they liked such pure energy, which was helpful to the demon realms. So I was taken away, and from a child with a clean heart, I was slowly polluted, brainwashed, and educated by the demon realms. Because I was honest and did everything well, I was appreciated by the Demon King. He felt that among our generation of demons, many had strong personalities, were disobedient, and had their own opinions—they would do tasks if they felt like it and leave them aside if they did not, which was quite irresponsible. But whether I wanted to do it or not, I only knew that since it was a task assigned to me, I should complete it well. Because of this simple attitude, I was appreciated. I think it was also the laws of and cause and effect at work. I have always believed in the laws of karma and cause and effect, even before entering the demon realms. Although no one mentioned it after entering, this concept was already deeply rooted in my heart and behaviour.
The Training of a Demon King
When the old demon noticed me, he began to keep me by his side to train me, telling me the conditions and abilities a demon should possess. He found that I still had many shortcomings, so he began to train me. This training was truly bitter! Therefore, to become an accomplished demon, a Demon King, or an old demon, one must go through suffering; it is absolutely not something gained without effort. In fact, the Buddha’s teachings are the same; they require one to walk step by step, down to earth. You get as much as you put in. If you have Wisdom and want to achieve success quickly, you must do your best, doing everything to the highest standard. But Practitioner Su says one should not have pressure, so it depends on one's own skills. To be able to do things well without pressure can probably only be achieved with the of the Buddha. Under the blessings of the Buddha at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre, this power can be felt at any time, so there is no longer any need to be afraid. It is not fear or worry, but the knowledge that it will not cause harm to one's body. This is very obvious in -protection of the human world. Only by overcoming this part can you move forward. Once the obstacle of 'self' is gone, the whole person feels much lighter. 'Self' is a burden, an obstacle; if you can let it go, you will naturally feel at ease. This is the Truth. If you hear this now, you can do as I say; if you do not hear it, then let it be according to Causal Conditions.
The Art of the Dive
Later, the old demon passed his specialty on to me. My specialty was being able to reach my destination rapidly from high altitudes, diving down like an eagle to capture my target in one go. This required extremely high speed and extremely sharp eyesight. My eyes were as sharp as an eagle's, and my movements were as fast as an eagle's. As long as I locked onto the target, I could make the opponent collapse. During my time as a Demon King, my targets were often important figures. Once these key figures were captured, the subsequent beings were easy to control. My specialty was this 'diving speed' tactic, which was so fast that the opponent had no chance to react. Once the dive was successful, although the battle was not completely over, it meant entering the second stage.
The first stage is locking onto the target and observing continuously. The second stage is the attack action. The diving speed tactic is most effectively used against the opponent's vital point—the character of the leader. If the character is biased, the entire development of the demon will be biased. If it can be corrected, there is a chance to change the overall direction. But the problem is that no one is willing to admit they are wrong, and this becomes the biggest obstacle to the progress of the demon realms. If a suggestion is made the first time and not changed, and still not changed the second time, by the third time, the problem may already be deeply rooted and difficult to correct. This is a huge loss for oneself.
The second stage of the attack action is that after capturing the main target, other following demons enter the battlefield to execute the attack. The result is often victory because the main target has been suppressed by me, the Demon King. Many demon leaders do not realise that the place they are being attacked from is a shockwave diving down from above. This is also why we can often win—capture the bandits by capturing their king first. When the king is captured and cannot move, subsequent attacks are naturally easy to succeed. This diving tactic allowed me to almost never fail in my 750 trillion years of battles. Because of this, I once thought about whether this successful tactic should continue to be passed down or end with my generation? After all, many lives disappeared and ended because of these battles. My heart actually felt some reluctance because my true nature is indeed kind. Later, I made a decision: 'As long as the diving technique leaves the opponent with a glimmer of hope, we will abandon this action.'
If I successfully subdue the opponent's leader, making him unable to move, or even causing his spiritual life to be interrupted and end, then I will continue to attack. Such a tactic is bound to win. Perhaps it is because of this strategy that I gave the opponent a glimmer of hope; if the opponent still had a chance of survival, I would stop attacking. This also gave them a turning point, allowing the leaders of some planets or groups to still have a possibility of survival. Doing this should not violate universal principles, the laws of karma and cause and effect, and the righteous path of Truth. Perhaps because of this, I was able to continue my identity as a demon for 750 trillion years and finally had the opportunity to encounter the Western Dharma-Nature Land and Namo Amituofo.
A Floating Molecule of Time
Even after being sent to the Western Dharma-Nature Land, my specialty never disappeared during those 750 trillion years. Later, it even developed to be more elusive, making many Demon Kings feel great fear. Because their attack targets could appear from the sky at any time, and they would be knocked down before they could react, forming a whirlwind of fear that could not be resisted.
Around the time of 500 trillion years, I did not want to settle down or live in seclusion, but hoped to find a quieter planet to live on. The planet I chose at that time was Earth. I moved from a planet in the Dharma Realm to Earth, lived here for a period of time, gradually became familiar with Earth's lifestyle, gained a preliminary understanding of the human world, and understood the state of the six realms of existence. The six realms of existence are indeed extremely bitter. Although I had left the demon realms of the Dharma Realm at that time, when I arrived on Earth, I was still in the demon realms; I just no longer did demon work. Therefore, I conducted some explorations and reflections on human nature and the six realms.
250 trillion years ago, the planet in this area was not called Earth. The age of the Earth should not be that long, right? I think it should not be that old, because from many signs, if it is within one trillion years, or from 10,000 trillion to 100,000 trillion years, both are possible. But even so, that is already a very, very long time. I think the planet at this location at that time was not the current Earth, but another planet, but the location was right here. This means that the planet had already experienced destruction or explosion. However, I still existed in a spiritual state at that time. Why was that? Actually, that planet was already a planet close to darkness at that time and did indeed experience an explosion. After the explosion, I had entered samadhi, feeling that my life had come to an end, and naturally entered a state of samadhi.
So I became a molecule floating in the air. Such changes are very large; I could be taken to unknown places by the wind or other forces at any time, not knowing where I was going, and not knowing where I would drift. I just entered samadhi like this, letting myself float as an air molecule. I really did not know where I would drift, which was equivalent to completely letting go of this life. Having experienced too many processes, I no longer cared when life would end. It was with this state of mind that I continued to exist.
When I woke up and looked back, I realised that about 240 trillion years had passed. However, I do not specifically trace how long I had been on that planet. Let us just say I stayed there for 10,000 trillion years. If the planet exploded at 10,000 trillion years, then I had been in samadhi for 240 trillion years. Although it has no meaning to me, it is better to use a number to explain the whole life process for everyone to understand.
Just like that, a floating air molecule floated in the air for 240 trillion years. In this way, the air molecules you breathe now might also inhale some spiritual existence, becoming part of your own body. This is not impossible. But I did not; I just kept floating in the air, not being inhaled by any newly formed planet or beings, nor becoming part of them. Just drifting like that, for a full 240 trillion years, it is truly unimaginable!
Purification in the Western Dharma-Nature Land
So, when did I enter the Western Dharma-Nature Land?
Practitioner Su said that the scope of Chao Du covered by his and countless manifestations actually far exceeds the areas we usually hear about. He moves extremely fast; as long as the Buddha-light and the Twelve Lights can shine on a place, life has the possibility of revival, including demons. This is an extremely special phenomenon. If it is a demon, as long as it is led by the light, it can also be sent to the Western Dharma-Nature Land. In fact, not only demons, but many other beings are also sent into the Western Dharma-Nature Land by the Buddha-light. This transformation reverses the life direction of beings. Once you enter the Western Dharma-Nature Land, it is a world of light, a Buddha-land. There, every being changes their original outer garment, regardless of which realm you were in before or what appearance you wore. Demons originally wore black clothes and had black hair. When they arrive at the Western Dharma-Nature Land, these are all washed clean by the Buddha-light, becoming clean and bright, and the whole appearance is brand new.
Although I am no longer human, from the perspective of a demon or a spirit, it is really like changing into a different person; even I cannot recognise my original appearance. Because the state of mind is different, looking at the world is also very different. In the past, no matter what I saw or thought, it was evil and bad. With a heart biased towards evil, naturally, everything I saw and touched became distorted. In such a dark world, I did not even feel that this was wrong, and no one told me I could not do this. But when I arrived at the Western Dharma-Nature Land, all of this was naturally let go. Those evil thoughts and evil deeds naturally disappeared, replaced by a world of light and purity. One can move freely on the lotus seat; although one cannot leave the lotus seat, it is a very comfortable position, just like one's own bed.
Twenty-four hours a day is actually not lonely at all. On the Dharma-Nature Land, we listen to sutras and hear the Dharma, and listen to Practitioner Su teach the Dharma. We do not need to eat, and there is no such thing as an energy meal, because everything is nourished by light; we are always full, without any lack, and will not be hungry. In addition to listening to the Dharma, we also participate in Dharma assemblies, read sutras, and chant Buddha's name on the lotus seat, proceeding in sync with the Dharma assembly. This truly surprised the original demons, because it was completely different from their previous lives and would never have intersected with these things. Since I entered the Western Dharma-Nature Land, I accepted all these changes so naturally. For the juniors, they might think: 'How is that possible?' But it is indeed possible. And in this process, I obtained true purification.
The Great Tree and the Nature of Demons
There was a big tree on the demon planet. At this time, it was discovered on the Western Dharma-Nature Land that it had also been sent in and had been transformed into a human form and saved. Those beings who had karmic affinity with the big tree were all related to it in the past. Now it is known that the spiritual life of the big tree has been 800 trillion years long. It appeared in the form of a big tree, but in fact, it is a being as long-lived as the old demons of the demon realms. Indeed, there are now old demons of 800 trillion years in the demon realms, so the big tree can also be that old. We can also observe the ; although there is no special specialty, we can see that all things are flowing in the laws of karma and cause and effect. The big tree is a spiritual being we saw in the Western Dharma-Nature Land. It also took off the outer garment of the big tree, as I just said; as long as the demons enter the Western Dharma-Nature Land, they will take off the outer garment of the demon. The big tree is the same. It took off the tree's shape, and the spirit inside was revealed, which is a shape close to a human form. But we are still used to calling it 'the big tree' because that is what we saw before, and we do not know its real name. It is normal for everyone to be puzzled by this. In fact, the big tree is an old demon in the Western Dharma-Nature Land. It was originally a member of the demon crowds, attached to a life form like a big tree. This is a common phenomenon on the demon planet, that is, demon nature is attached to various life forms, and it is one of them. This is what we have seen and heard in the Western Dharma-Nature Land these past few days.
A Message to the Juniors
As for what to say to the juniors, perhaps most of you do not know me. Because I left my original planet long ago and came to this planet. However, the old demons who know Mo Fu-zhong should still remember me; as for the younger generation, it does not matter if you do not know me. After all, a person's name is just a temporary title in the long journey of spiritual life. I have had many names, and 'Mo Fu-zhong' is just a name I had as a demon in this lifetime. You must have such a free and easy state of mind to constantly learn and grow in the Buddha’s teachings. This is called 'not clinging.' Only by not clinging is there room for progress.
We are very eager to see our true self. Because we already know that we do indeed have a true self. Therefore, almost all old demons who have heard the Buddha’s teachings and taken them into their hearts will make a vow, hoping to see their true self by chanting Buddha's name. In this way, it will not be in vain to be an old demon. After such a long time, my heart is full of gratitude. Only by being subdued can I enter this place. I want to tell the juniors: 'From the Dharma Realm to Earth, it does not completely require personal skills. If you have the ability to move through space instantly, it will naturally be faster; if not, it will take more time.' Indeed, older demons have stronger adaptability when encountering emergencies. If they are demons who grew up according to the original education model, their reaction speed is sometimes not as good as that of old demons. But all this is the laws of karma and cause and effect; there is no need to speculate or hesitate, nor does it need to spend time researching anything, because I have already arrived here.
Whether you are juniors under my Demon King lineage or not, please accept beings from the Dharma Realm or other spaces into the Western Dharma-Nature Land with a kind and stable heart. In the Western Dharma-Nature Land, every being is an individual: a demon, a spirit, a lotus seat. On the surface, everyone has nothing to do with each other, but in fact, there is related Collective Karma, because we are all listening to sutras and hearing the Dharma here. This place is far away from everywhere, so you do not have to repeat the same mistakes; you should come directly to seek refuge. Furthermore, please stop using 'magic.' This is the common voice of us old demons; you should believe and act accordingly.
The Importance of Purification
The Buddha’s teachings on Earth are indeed extraordinary. The Buddha’s teachings at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre can subdue old demons, and thus stopped many attacks by demon juniors on life forms in various realms on Earth, including problems such as invading human bodies and spiritual attachment. It is not just subduing old demons, but also subduing countless demon juniors at the same time, letting them enter the Western Dharma-Nature Land together, ending the invasion and disturbance of beings. After all, the essence of practice is purification. And the character of demons is often in the extreme of darkness and pollution. If the practice is not thorough and the true self has not been seen, the influence of demon nature will still appear occasionally. The most superficial expression of this influence is 'personality.' When a person's personality corresponds to the characteristics of demons, it will be seen through by demons. At this time, the practitioner will suffer, and his speech, behaviour, and demeanour will deviate from the appearance they should have, far from the style a practitioner should have. As the days go by, the distance gets longer, and the demon nature will take the opportunity to go deep into . It is not easy to resolve.
Many practitioners have been disturbed by demons and have not found peace for a lifetime. Until they are old and sick, the demons are still attached to them, and only when the elements separate and the body can no longer be used do the demons leave. But the things done under the disturbance of demons in the past still have to be borne by this practitioner. After all, it is the karma created by his body, and he has to take responsibility. Whether it is accepting judgment or being reincarnated in other realms, it is a natural result.
However, at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre, due to the merits of Namo Amituofo and Practitioner Su, the time of suffering and the opportunity for disturbance of many practitioners have indeed been reversed. Practitioner Su can subdue demons and even see them in person, making demons feel terrified and take the initiative to appear, being led to the Western Dharma-Nature Land, which can be said to kill two birds with one stone. First, saving a demon to enter the Dharma-Nature Land is equivalent to achieving a Buddha; second, it also helps the practitioner's body maintain a state of purification. Purification is not easy. If the practitioner himself lacks self-discipline, and his heart arises evil thoughts again, speaks evil words, or commits evil deeds, says things that should not be said, or does things that should not be done, then the corresponding demons will invade again and reside within. This situation is entirely self-inflicted, and naturally, one has to bear the bitter fruit oneself. It is just that in the situation where Practitioner Su can see them, these demons will be invited out and reintroduced to the Western Dharma-Nature Land. This cycle repeats, and it is truly countless; almost everyone I see is like this.
We see these situations on the Dharma-Nature Land and can only deeply admire the patience and of Practitioner Su, as well as his earnest expectations for the fourfold assembly of disciples. I hope that through this method, the fourfold assembly of disciples can cultivate blessings and virtues while making progress as soon as possible, completing purification and achieving success. We also benefit from Namo Amituofo and Practitioner Su, so we also wish the practitioners of the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre to be fulfilled as soon as possible and save more suffering beings.
The Responsibility of Propagating the Dharma
Propagating the Dharma means spreading the Buddha’s teachings. If you only rely on Practitioner Su alone, it will be limited in the end. After all, he is only a human body, and twenty-four hours a day has long been used as two days; if you want to use it as three days, how can this body bear it? Therefore, you fourfold assembly of disciples should also strengthen yourselves. If you are unwilling to stand up and propagate the Dharma together, how can the vow of propagating the Dharma be continued? I have been emphasising just now that a practitioner must first achieve success before he can shoulder the responsibility of propagating the Dharma. Otherwise, working under the protection of Practitioner Su, although you can also touch the edge of propagating the Dharma and help human beings or beings in the spiritual realms to some extent, the operation of the temple must not rely on Practitioner Su alone; there is still a lot of work that needs everyone to work together, which is your basic responsibility.
True propagation of the Dharma is that this Dharma can go deep into the hearts of beings and have a substantial impact on them. For example, inspiring beings to make a vow to be reborn in the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss; or, while they are still alive, helping them relieve pain and stabilise their lives. These cannot be done without great cultivation. If the propagator of the Dharma has no practice, he cannot achieve the purpose of propagating the Dharma. So my suggestion is: propagating the Dharma should start from oneself. When you have achieved success, the opportunity to propagate the Dharma will naturally come, and you do not have to worry about not having a venue or target. This is the bodhimanda of Namo Amituofo, and the beings who have karmic affinity are the beings of the entire Dharma Realm. Any kind of skill must correspond to a target that can be saved. From a grain of sand to the demons in the vastness of the Dharma Realm, such a vast space and boundless world are the targets and fields of propagating the Dharma. So, please cultivate yourself well first. This is my humble opinion. The interview ends here today.
Gratitude to Namo Amituofo, gratitude to Practitioner Su.
