The Three Hun Souls and Seven Po Souls

On May 31, 2017, Venerable HaiZe conducted an interview with the spirit of Wang Yung-tsai, the former President of the Formosa Plastics Group. Having sought deliverance at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre in Australia, Wang Yung-tsai now resides in the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss. This record details his journey, the state of his soul during his final years, and the profound reality of karmic retribution.

Venerable HaiZe speaks:

"Namo Amituofo. Today, Namo Amituofo abides at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre to lead suffering beings to liberation. Through the great heart and Ultimate Vow of Practitioner Su, a direct path to the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss has been opened for the world. We humbly invite the business magnate, President Wang Yung-tsai, to compassionately accept this interview. The purpose is for you to share your experience of passing away, how you reached the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss, and to repay the Buddha's kindness. We will make this interview public so that the world may know that the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss truly exists."

"Namo Amituofo, in your compassion! I am truly embarrassed. Coming to this place today, I am not familiar with the surroundings, but your kindness toward me is greater than the heavens. When I was about to be reborn, you saved me and guided me to the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss. I do not know how to express my gratitude. Thank you all."

A Language of the Heart

"President Wang, may we discuss something? Could we conduct this interview in Mandarin? My ability to switch between Taiwanese and Mandarin is not very smooth. If it is acceptable to you, let us proceed in Mandarin. Please, I ask for your cooperation. Namo Amituofo."

"Very well! I will try my best to cooperate. Please forgive me if my Mandarin is not standard. First, I must express my gratitude to everyone. When the media reported my passing, they noted that I was a famous business figure, the President of the Formosa Plastics Group, and that my coffin was worth ten million New Taiwan Dollars. This drew significant public attention. When Practitioner Su was giving a Dharma talk, he discussed this matter. Coincidentally, there was a Practitioner Li here who could communicate with spirits. Practitioner Su compassionately asked her to invite my spirit out, and it was discovered that I was preparing to be reborn as a frog.

At that time, my spirit was dim and muddled. Practitioner Su, in his great compassion, guided my spirit to the Western Dharma-Nature Land to listen to the Dharma. Every time I listen to the teachings, I am reminded: 'Wang Yung-tsai, do not come back to be a human again. Being human is full of suffering. You struggle your whole life in this world, but when your last breath leaves you, you cannot take a single cent with you. It is all an illusion.'"

From Humble Beginnings to Industry

"Fortunately, I listened to the teachings. Originally, I was from Anxi, Fujian. Our family had three children, and I was the third. My eldest brother was Wang Yung-ching. My second brother, Wang Yung-cheng, passed away from illness when I was twenty-three. Because of his early passing, my eldest brother always took me with him to struggle and work. Our family was poor, and life was very difficult. This upbringing instilled in us a habit of diligence.

When I was young, I saw my father working hard at tea farming, always watching the weather. He lived at the mercy of the heavens—the temperature, the rain, and the sunlight all affected the quality of the tea, which in turn affected the price. I thought to myself, 'When I grow up, I do not want to rely on tea farming; it is too exhausting!' Once, I accompanied my father to buy rice. I remember it vividly; the shop was called Fengchun Rice Shop. The owner was a kind man with a constant smile. I heard he had his own milling machine and his business was very good. Even as a young child, I was influenced—when I grew up, I wanted to do business where customers brought money to me, unlike my father's tea, which had to be sold to others.

Time passed quickly. My father, Wang Chang-geng, moved our whole family to Taiwan. Taiwan was a good place to make a living. Upon arrival, the whole family went to work. My mother washed clothes for others; my father returned to his old trade, helping to collect tea; my eldest brother worked as a clerk in a trading firm and took on extra work as a porter; I washed dishes at a busy noodle stall. As our income grew, life improved. My eldest brother decided to start his own business and opened a rice shop. Since food is the most important thing for the people, business was good. Because of his experience at the trading firm, he was confident in managing inventory. However, once, out of greed, we bought too much rice and stored it. Due to the passage of time, the old and new rice became infested with weevils, and we nearly went bankrupt. I happened to be working at a plastic materials shop. When my brother came to see me, he noticed a large roll of plastic sitting in front of the shop. He asked if we sold it, and I explained that it came in many colours and was durable. Hearing that it was durable, my brother began researching the plasticity and versatility of plastic materials. He sought advice everywhere. He had sold rice and timber, but finally decided to focus on plastic materials. 'It is durable, can be shaped into many forms, and has high utility; naturally, there will be many consumers.' From small plastic bags to large plastic barrels, and eventually to fine chemical fibres, we operated with dedication and became the well-known Formosa Plastics Group.

I followed my brother's lead in everything. Whatever he said, I did. The only project I fully supported was the land reclamation for the Sixth Naphtha Cracker in Mailiao, Yunlin. Naturally, I supervised the dredging and reclamation—we fought the sea for land, and that is how the petrochemical complex came to be."

The Call to Repay Kindness

"Namo Amituofo, President Wang. Thank you for explaining everything so clearly. Now that you are a resident of the Western Pure Land, you must earnestly counsel your descendants, or they too will suffer in the cycle of rebirth."

"You are right. My sons, daughters, daughters-in-law, and sons-in-law are all very filial. They will likely see this news and come looking for me. Please pass on what I am saying now. I am in the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss—do not doubt it! You can come to the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre in Australia to see for yourselves. The people here truly have attainment; they can transmit the Buddha's voice. I especially want to thank Practitioner Su. People call him Practitioner Su; it was he who guided me to the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss. This is something that cannot be bought with money."

The Truth About the Soul

"Namo Amituofo, President Wang. There is one very important matter we must ask you to tell us. What was the state of your three hun souls and seven po souls before you fell ill and passed away? Sharing this could save many people."

"If it can save people, I must speak. Let me think. I was ninety-three when I passed away. I never thought about the three hun souls and seven po souls. My family only thought, 'The people in charge of the funeral will naturally invite my soul to the spirit tablet, and after the Dharma assembly, I will naturally go to a good place.' They were all mistaken. As early as age forty-two, one of my po souls went missing. In my dreams, I saw scenes from my childhood. Because we were poor and I was the youngest, I would see myself at home alone, with no one returning as it grew dark. I was terrified of the darkness, and I would wake up in a panic. After waking, I didn't pay much attention to it, but deep down, I feared the dark. Because my personality was relatively cheerful, it wasn't easily noticed. But whenever I went to an unfamiliar place, my eyes would be particularly alert, observing the environment to ensure it was safe before I could relax. Otherwise, I was always tense.

Around age sixty-five, I attended the Formosa Plastics Group's annual sports meet. My brother was there, and so was I. As Chairman, he jogged a lap, and I followed on his right. I accidentally tripped on the track and nearly fell. If my assistant hadn't caught me, I would have fallen. At that moment, I felt a group of people pushing me from behind. I turned, but no one was there. Now I understand—it was my karmic creditors. After that sports meet, my waist and hip joints ached. At the moment I was pushed, I lost one hun soul, and my physical strength began to decline. I started going downhill. My usual way of maintaining health was simple, but I occasionally ate tonics to keep my strength up.

Around age seventy, I was busy with meetings regarding the land reclamation project in Mailiao. I was so busy that I thought about the project even while sleeping. One hun and two po souls were busy supervising the work. Most seriously, regarding the contract for the five-hundred-billion-dollar investment, I would study the clauses in my dreams. I was cautious about such a huge investment, and eventually, I collapsed from exhaustion, slumped over the pile of contracts. I was travelling between Taipei and Yunlin every week, and that was how more of my souls were snatched away.

When I was seventy-two, I was sitting in a car driving from Taipei to Yunlin. Near Linkou, my driver braked suddenly. I was startled awake from my sleep—what we call 'shock' in Taiwanese. I sighed, and another po soul was gone. Getting old is truly useless. I sighed, and from then on, my family doctor visited regularly, at least twice a month. It seemed to improve slightly after three months.

Around age eighty, I began to dream frequently, and my head felt dizzy. At night, I often dreamed of the Mailiao seaside, standing there in the wind. The next day, I would catch a cold and cough. While dreaming of the wind, my body felt light, as if my feet were a brick's height off the ground. One hun and three po souls were snatched away. The reason they were taken was that all the spirits harmed by the construction in Mailiao had surrounded me."

The Puppet of Karmic Creditors

"If your three hun souls and seven po souls were all snatched away, how could you live until ninety-three?"

"I do not know. I only knew my body was suffering. I was constantly getting injections and taking medicine, always muddled. I seemed to have less and less strength. I remember most clearly that I was the Chairman of Formosa Plastics. Thinking of that, I would laugh. I loved hearing people call me 'Chairman Wang, Chairman Wang!' Even at ninety, I didn't know what kind of life I was living; I only knew my internal organs felt hot."

"You mentioned your internal organs felt hot. I would like to ask about the three hun souls and seven po souls. You mentioned that between forty-two and eighty, they were gradually snatched away. After eighty, they were gone, and you were always muddled, receiving injections and medicine. When the souls are not in the body, who is in your body? Who is the spirit controlling the body? What is your relationship with them? Where were your souls locked? At what age were they locked? After you passed away, where did the controlling spirit go?"

"Now that you ask this, I must look back into the past. At that time, my body could not act on its own; I was muddled, and it was no longer 'me.' Yet, I was still living in the human world. I didn't even know what I was doing. Let me look now: I didn't need to manage company affairs; I left it to them. But if there were issues, I had to speak or attend certain occasions. My limbs couldn't walk, so I needed someone to support me to be steady. Who was that? They were very similar to me. Those who knew my family, the tone of voice—anyway, I was old, had less strength, and no opinions, so I just went along with them. Who were these people? They were not human; they were spirits. At that time, there were many spirits on my body, densely packed, occupying my limbs and internal organs. They made my body stiff, my movements slow, and my reactions sluggish. Different parts of my body had different beings.

Ah! These spirits are what you call 'karmic creditors'! Some have been with me for many lifetimes, so they know me very well. They know my family and my life, but I was no longer the one in charge; they were. They made my body weak, sick, and dependent on medicine and injections. This was one of the ways they made me suffer and collected their debts. Moreover, different parts of the body had different karmic creditors—some from five lifetimes ago, some six, ten, or fifteen.

I could not be the master. So, where was my main soul locked? I see it now. At age sixty-three, my main soul was locked in my heart. The controlling spirits—the masters—were in my heart and brain. The beings on my heart were officials; they sat upright, receiving news from all directions of the body and issuing orders on what to do. From head to toe, they had subordinates. Whatever they said, the subordinates did. That was a being from my fifteenth lifetime. I was also an official then, and to protect my position, I selfishly caused the deaths of his entire family of twenty-five. In this lifetime, it was his turn to claim his life, so he had control over my body. Out of the twenty-five, except for a few who had already been reborn, the rest were all on my body, distributed in different parts. If there was a situation, the controller could tell them what to do. In short, they would not let me have an easy time.

I see that once, my legs suddenly went weak and I squatted down, my knees hitting the ground. The controller immediately ordered: 'Make him unable to walk.' A group of spirits rushed up, using all their strength to kick and strike my muscles and joints where I had hit the ground. I saw my knees slowly swell up. There were female spirits biting me, and inside the knees, it was a pool of blood, while on the outside, it was bruised and blue. They did this to make the already injured areas even worse.

The beings controlling my brain were from my tenth lifetime. Two armies were at war, and I used a strategy to cause the entire opposing army to perish. Now, they were in my head, often fighting on both sides, using my head as a battlefield. No wonder I often had throbbing headaches, couldn't concentrate, and my brain couldn't process thoughts. There were also generals and soldiers in my mouth, making my speech unclear, or making me unable to speak even when I wanted to.

These beings waited until my lifespan was at its end, and my body could no longer live in the world. When I passed away, they came out one by one, left my body, and went their separate ways! The official who controlled me from my heart, and the others who followed his orders—they were originally in the ghost realm, waiting in line to attach themselves and collect debts. Now, after the debt collection was finished, the official emerged from my heart. Because he had committed hellish deeds himself, after leaving my body, he went directly to hell to suffer retribution. The other beings emerged from different parts of my body like a cloud of smoke, then were blown away by the wind and scattered. Some attached to trees, some drifted around—they were still ghost spirits! Some were sucked away to be reborn.

The generals and soldiers in my head emerged from my brain as a cloud of black smoke and drifted into the air. This cloud of smoke was not blown away by the wind; it drifted away as a unit. This army remained in the ghost realm, preparing for battle. The commanding general, because he initiated the war, entered hell to suffer retribution.

Seeing myself like that back then, I open my eyes wide in disbelief. My heavens! Such things happen! It is truly terrifying! How could it be so frightening! I only know these things now.

Practitioner Su! You can capture people's three hun souls and seven po souls back here. I saw you inviting spirits before and knew of such things, but now that I see myself—that was in the past, not now, I am very well in the West! I mean, looking at it this way, when one is alive, if the three hun souls and seven po souls are not in the body, it is very important to invite them back! Only then can one be the master. Otherwise, if the souls are not in the body, you are not yourself. Whether it is good or bad, you let the karmic creditors be the master. What meaning is there in life like that!

Practitioner Su! Thank you for exploring this matter in such detail; that is how this was discovered. People of the world, take note! You must always be mindful of your thoughts and resolve conflicts with your karmic creditors, so they will not collect debts and snatch away your three hun souls and seven po souls. But if no one speaks of this, if no one explains it clearly, who would know? It seems that the Thrice Yearning Ceremonies to eliminate disasters and perform Chao Du for one's karmic creditors are very important. It is not just for the deceased; the living must do it too! However, if one sincerely learns Buddhism, chants the Buddha's name, acts as a good person, does good deeds, and thinks good thoughts, the karmic creditors might not snatch you away if they see you doing good.

In short, one must find a true spiritual friend, and this friend must have Wisdom, have attainment, know how to see if the three hun souls and seven po souls are in the body, know how to bring them back, and know how to send spirits to the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss. Looking at it this way, only Practitioner Su possesses all these. Truly remarkable! The Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre is not an ordinary temple. It is a bodhimanda with true attainment and capability. Everyone, cherish this! The monastics and lay practitioners here, learn Practitioner Su's skills, and you will be able to save many people in the future! Thank you, Namo Amituofo! Thank you, Practitioner Su! Thank you, everyone!"

The Confession of the Karmic Creditors

"May I ask where the beings connected to President Wang Yung-tsai are now?"

"I am suffering in hell! I am the one you interviewed, the controller who sat in Wang Yung-tsai's heart and controlled his body while he was alive. I am the official whose entire family of twenty-five was harmed by him. Although the King of Hell judged that I could seek revenge, he did not say I could lock up and trap his true self and intermediate soul, so I was judged to go to hell. Because I hated him too much and wanted him to suffer a bit more, I trapped his intermediate soul in his heart, making his spirit unable to move, so I could control him as I pleased. I did not expect that after collecting the debt, it would be my turn to be dragged back to hell for trial and punishment. There is the heart-gouging hell; because I trapped his soul in his heart to suffer, I must also suffer the retribution of heart-pain. Because my ignorance and hatred exceeded the scope of what I was allowed to collect, I must also go to the brain-gouging hell.

I have spoken so honestly about my encounter; please, save me! My name is Wang He-ben.

And me, I am the general who controlled his head. He used a strategy to cause my entire army to perish, so I led a large force to collect the debt from him. I launched a war in his head, making him suffer frequent throbbing headaches, inability to concentrate, and the sounds of war and slaughter in his ears. The war I launched, and the things I did together with the other official to trap his soul in his heart, exceeded the extent of what I was allowed to collect. So, after he died, my debt collection ended. I returned to hell to accept the retribution of heart-pain in the heart-gouging hell and the amputation hell for the retribution of launching the war. My name is Lu Nian-dong."

Note: Chao Du performed by Practitioner Su:

• Karmic creditors connected to Wang Yung-tsai: The official and his entire family of twenty-five who were harmed. Official Wang He-ben, in heart-gouging hell and brain-gouging hell (Entered the Western Dharma-Nature Land at Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre).
• Karmic creditors connected to Wang Yung-tsai: The general and soldiers whose entire army perished due to his strategy. General Lu Nian-dong, in heart-gouging hell and amputation hell (Entered the Western Dharma-Nature Land at Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre).

Interviewed by the chief writer, Venerable HaiZe.