The Wisdom of the Four Sacred Realms

This is a record of an interview with Venerable Shi Kongru, who sought Chao Du at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre in Australia. He represents a vast assembly of 126,843,954 beings from the Buddha Realm of the Four Sacred Realms who aspire to be reborn in the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss. This account reflects upon his practice and the nature of the Dharma. Recorded by Practitioner Su on May 8, 2014.

Practitioner Su speaks: "Namo Amituofo. We are here to invite the beings of the Buddha Realm of the Four Sacred Realms. How many are present?"

Practitioner Cai speaks: "There are 126,843,954 beings, represented by Venerable Shi Kongru."

Practitioner Su speaks: "We invite the representative of the Buddha Realm of the Four Sacred Realms, Venerable Shi Kongru. In the Buddha’s teachings, we speak of similar-to-Buddha states; these are not the true Buddhas of the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss. In the Ten Dharma Realms, those in the Buddha Realm are called similar-to-Buddha, a concept our Master often explains in Dharma talks. May I ask, Venerable Kongru, where are you from?"

The Roots of Practice

Venerable Shi Kongru speaks: "Those who have come to be interviewed today are primarily from mainland China."

Practitioner Su speaks: "May I ask which part of mainland China?"

Venerable Shi Kongru speaks: "The Guangdong and Guangxi regions."

Practitioner Su speaks: "I have been interviewing many from Guangdong and Guangxi lately. How remarkable! Is this because the Sixth Patriarch was active in that area? Is that what you mean?"

Venerable Shi Kongru speaks: "The contribution of the Sixth Patriarch to the Dharma of that era is truly immeasurable."

Practitioner Su speaks: "May I ask which great master you studied under?"

Venerable Shi Kongru speaks: "My Dharma name, Kong, is also related to the Sixth Patriarch."

Practitioner Su speaks: "So, you consider the Sixth Patriarch your teacher?"

Venerable Shi Kongru speaks: "I am a disciple of a disciple of the Sixth Patriarch."

Transcending the Constraints of Time

Practitioner Su speaks: "How long have you been in the Ten Dharma Realms? How much time has passed?"

Venerable Shi Kongru speaks: "How long has it been since the time of the Sixth Patriarch?"

Fellow Practitioner speaks: "From the Tang Dynasty until now, it has been about 1,300 to 1,400 years."

Venerable Shi Kongru speaks: "A thousand years is enough! Over a thousand years—why should one be hindered by time?"

Practitioner Su speaks: "If what you say is true, you are truly extraordinary!"

Venerable Shi Kongru speaks: "In truth, time is layered. How do we know that the place where we were a thousand years ago is not the same place where we were in the distant past? Do you understand?"

Practitioner Su speaks: "You possess great Wisdom. Your words are truly profound! Under what circumstances did you cultivate so well? Did you become a monastic as a child, in middle age, or as a young adult? At what age did you enter the monastic life?"

Venerable Shi Kongru speaks: "I became a monastic as a child. From a young age, I loved being near temples. I was about eleven or twelve years old."

Practitioner Su speaks: "Your good roots are deep, and you were very sensible. You were truly clever and bright!"

Venerable Shi Kongru speaks: "It was acceptable, quite acceptable."

The Path of No Obstacles

Practitioner Su speaks: "Since you were a disciple of the Sixth Patriarch’s lineage, what was your master’s name?"

Venerable Shi Kongru speaks: "There is no need to be concerned with that! People will surely go to check the records for verification. Furthermore, those who read such books often fall into the trap of knowledge-based obstacles. Why bother with that?"

Practitioner Su speaks: "Oh! That is correct. People today do not truly practise; they are full of doubt and find it difficult to believe in the subtle Dharma of the Tathagata. You are indeed very wise! In your practice since you were a teenager, did you experience the wringer of life?"

Venerable Shi Kongru speaks: "Ah! What is called experiencing the wringer need not be experienced as such. Afflictions are Bodhi, and Bodhi is afflictions. It all depends on how the human heart thinks. If you think of them as afflictions, they are afflictions; if you transform them into Bodhi, they are Bodhi!"

Practitioner Su speaks: "May I ask, did you have this perspective from childhood? That is incredible! Is that really how it is?"

Venerable Shi Kongru speaks: "I have already received the guidance of my master."

Practitioner Su speaks: "Oh! Because of your master’s guidance, you were able to delve so deeply?"

Venerable Shi Kongru speaks: "Perhaps I still possessed some good roots, blessings, and Causal Conditions, so when my master gave me a hint, I was able to understand."

Practitioner Su speaks: "So you are saying your path was smooth sailing! You did not experience the hardships of life."

Venerable Shi Kongru speaks: "This smooth sailing does not need to be experienced by oneself alone. The people around you—every one of them is yourself!"

The Oneness of All Beings

Practitioner Su speaks: "That statement is very profound, which is why you were able to cultivate so well! Please explain this to us, as many people do not understand what you mean by the people around you are yourself."

Venerable Shi Kongru speaks: "The greatest difference between worldly Dharma and transcendental Dharma lies in the discrimination between self and other. It is because there is a me, a you, and a him that the true self-nature is obstructed. The true self-nature is difficult to manifest because of this division between you, me, and him. This is the greatest obstacle for fellow practitioners today! The so-called oneness of the Buddha Dharma requires one to let go of the self. Only then can others become your heart, and only when your heart is willing can you truly know others. This is what is meant by my heart is the Buddha-heart, and the Buddha-heart is my heart."

"Why must one seek smooth sailing or fear experiencing the wringer? The encounters of those around us—some have experienced great hardships, others have had smooth sailing—when you look at them, are they not all born and received by yourself? But one must not have suffering-reception. Once there is suffering-reception, it will obstruct the manifestation of the true self-nature. Therefore, one must have meditative concentration to clearly understand that this body is false, and that the suffering experienced by those around us is also false. If one has the ability or the Wisdom, one might offer a word of advice or a helping hand. However, whether they can benefit from that advice or receive that help also depends on their karmic conditions and causes and effects. This is why those in the Four Sacred Realms often sigh and shake their heads—it is not that they do not want to help, but that they are unable to. Therefore, in daily life, cultivate broad good affinities. Do not underestimate this power; when the Causal Conditions mature, that is the time for deliverance. Namo Amituofo."

The Practice of Stopping Thoughts

Practitioner Su speaks: "Namo Amituofo. Your teachings are excellent! Nowadays, everyone is obstructing themselves; no one else is obstructing you. Speaking of the Four Sacred Realms mentioned by the Buddha, your state is extremely high! At what age did you enter this state, and were you always in the temple?"

Venerable Shi Kongru speaks: "Afterwards, I loved the temple, so I often stayed there, moving in and out with the masters."

Practitioner Su speaks: "When you were with the masters and saw people outside, did you immediately awaken upon seeing them? Awakening is what we are studying in Buddhism!"

Venerable Shi Kongru speaks: "My master would occasionally take me down the mountain. Going down the mountain, one could see that the lives of various people were indeed very different from those in the temple."

Practitioner Su speaks: "When your master took you down, did you ever see something you liked, or did your heart ever move?"

Venerable Shi Kongru speaks: "It is hard to avoid the heart moving. At first, my master saw it all. After returning to the temple, I discovered that if a single event was not stopped in the mind, the thought would sink deeper and deeper. My master would stop me at the appropriate time and make me wake up: Where did this thought begin? Where did it arise? Where should it stop? Therefore, I later knew that as soon as a thought arises, it should be stopped. As the saying goes, Do not fear the arising of thoughts, only fear the delay in awareness. From then on, I kept this sentence in mind: As soon as a thought arises, it should be stopped; as soon as a thought arises, it should be stopped. Afterwards, my heart became purer and purer. As soon as a thought arose, it was stopped, and eventually, I entered the state of no-thought. When there is no-thought, everything is clear at a glance."

A Request for Deliverance

Practitioner Su speaks: "Oh! Your master is truly amazing! Is your master in the Western Pure Land now?"

Venerable Shi Kongru speaks: "My master was a disciple of the teacher of the Sixth Patriarch, Huineng."

Practitioner Su speaks: "Is he in the Western Pure Land?"

Venerable Shi Kongru speaks: "The Sixth Patriarch has already reached the Western Pure Land, and my master has also reached the Western Pure Land."

Practitioner Su speaks: "Congratulations! Your master taught you so well! He corrected your every move when you returned. He is a high master, truly incredible! Listening to you, I realise that to study Buddhism, one must have a high master to lead the way. I truly respect your master! A practitioner of Buddhism must not have wandering thoughts; if a thought arises, it must be eliminated immediately. This is excellent! Did you come today because you need our help? Or do you have family members who need Chao Du? We have memorial tablets for the thirteen ancestral masters of the Pure Land School, as well as for our own parents and ancestors. Or have you already delivered them?"

Venerable Shi Kongru speaks: "I have a request, if I may?"

Practitioner Su speaks: "Yes, of course. There is no problem. As long as we can do it, we are willing. This is a Buddha-land."

Venerable Shi Kongru speaks: "I know that in your Buddha hall, you have placed memorial tablets for the thirteen ancestral masters of the Pure Land School, as well as for the ancestors of the great masters of the third, fourth, and fifth generations. May I ask if you could include the ancestors and karmic creditors of those of us from the Four Sacred Realms who are being interviewed?"

Practitioner Su speaks: "Yes, we can. Write it down quickly. Write Ancestors of the Four Sacred Realms, and that will include everyone. Is that okay? We are in a Buddha-land; there is nothing to fear."

Venerable Shi Kongru speaks: "Of course! But I was hesitant to make this request, because the Four Sacred Realms already pervade the entire Dharma-realm and empty space. How could I trouble Practitioner Su with such a great task? But if you say so, I will gladly accept it!"

Practitioner Su speaks: "I just said the ancestors of the Four Sacred Realms. You know who my backing is, right? Namo Amituofo is my backing, so you can rest assured."

The Scope of Deliverance

Fellow Practitioner speaks: "How should we write the memorial tablet?"

Venerable Shi Kongru speaks: "You can just state it."

Practitioner Su speaks: "I just said Ancestors of the Four Sacred Realms—is that enough? Venerable Kongru, you write it and see how it should be written."

Venerable Shi Kongru speaks: "Ancestors and family members of the Four Sacred Realms to be delivered to the West by the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre. This is not just for those being interviewed, but for everyone on the list. Is that acceptable?"

Practitioner Su speaks: "Oh! That is correct. That is fine. We will include those on the list to be sent to the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss, including the twenty-eight heavens, the Four Sacred Realms, the inner and outer Tushita Heaven, and the Asura realm."

Fellow Practitioner speaks: "The list includes more than just those being interviewed."

Venerable Shi Kongru speaks: "I only dare to request for the Four Sacred Realms! That number is already vast."

Practitioner Su speaks: "The twenty-eight heavens are included; we have memorial tablets for them, and I have invited them all. Should we ask Namo Amituofo?"

Venerable Shi Kongru speaks: "I only dare to request for the Four Sacred Realms, because I know Practitioner Su has always wanted to break through the limitations of these numbers. This is one method. As for the twenty-eight heavens, because the Alaya consciousness still exists, they have been listening for a long time, and their numbers are already inconceivable. Although the Four Sacred Realms have transcended the six realms of existence, they still possess self-view or discrimination. Therefore, I hope this method can open their hearts and make them vow to be reborn in the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss."

Practitioner Su speaks: "So there are only over 100 million of you here now. Are there many more inside?"

Venerable Shi Kongru speaks: "Many, many more. It is not just the Buddha Realm; the Sound-Hearer Realm, the Pratyekabuddha Realm, the Bodhisattva Realm, and the Buddha Realm are all immeasurable and boundless."

Practitioner Su speaks: "My goodness! How were the people of ancient times so capable in their practice? To reach the Four Sacred Realms, one’s skills must be very good!"

Venerable Shi Kongru speaks: "Actually, it is not just ancient times, nor is it only in China."

Practitioner Su speaks: "It is all over the world. In the twenty-eight heavens and the Four Sacred Realms, are there more Chinese or more Indians?"

Venerable Shi Kongru speaks: "Why must one make such discriminations?"

Practitioner Su speaks: "You are right. I was just asking; I did not mean to discriminate. Let me read it to you to see if the memorial tablet is correct: Ancestors and family members of the Four Sacred Realms to be delivered to the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss by the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre. Is that correct?"

Venerable Shi Kongru speaks: "Ancestors and family members of the Four Sacred Realms delivered to the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre."

Practitioner Su speaks: "Ancestors and family members of the Four Sacred Realms to be delivered to the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss by the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre. Is that enough?"

Venerable Shi Kongru speaks: "That is fine. Namo Amituofo."

Final Words of Wisdom

Practitioner Su speaks: "We will set up the memorial tablet for them. Thank you for sharing your process. Is there anything else important? Anything else you would like to tell us?"

Venerable Shi Kongru speaks: "This is sufficient, quite sufficient."

Practitioner Su speaks: "Now, in the Buddha Realm, there are 126,843,954 beings, represented by Buddha Shi Kongru, and 110 students. Student is also just a term; for a student to be able to cultivate to such a level is not simple! Now that we have opened the twenty-eight heavens and the Four Sacred Realms, you should all know the benefits of the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss and should be eager to go. Do you feel the current number is too small?"

Venerable Shi Kongru speaks: "Actually, that is already in the past. What we should look forward to is the present and the future; the numbers after this will not be like this."

Practitioner Su speaks: "Thank you for your explanation today; your teachings are excellent! Is there any other key point?"

Venerable Shi Kongru speaks: "That is all! You have already mentioned the daily points, Practitioner Su. I still need to listen and learn."

Practitioner Su speaks: "I dare not accept such praise! Now, for the 126,843,954 beings of the Buddha Realm, Venerable Shi Kongru, and the 110 students, please ascend the lotus seat. Namo Amituofo."

Venerable Shi Kongru speaks: "Namo Amituofo."

To be utterly still and without action, to extinguish all great suffering forever—in this lifetime, we truly cannot achieve this. However, we should let go of as much as we can in this world. We must awaken, not find trouble for ourselves, and not add heavy burdens to our lives. In our sensory world, this world is impermanence; there is past, present, and future; there is this world and other realms. Look at everyone: from childhood, which we see, to youth, to adulthood, and slowly to old age—this is the path that life must take. The World-Honoured One spoke according to worldly conventions. Therefore, the Buddha spoke the sutras based on the Two Truths. Speaking of Nirvana and the Dharma Body is based on the Ultimate Truth, which is the state personally realised by all Buddhas and Tathagatas. In the sutras and treatises, the Buddha often tells us about the unborn and undying. Indeed, if there is no birth, how can there be death? If there is birth, there is death; if there is no birth, there is naturally no death. What He speaks is the truth. What we experience today is truly illusory! Understanding the truth of the facts will harmonise your body and mind, and you will certainly be reborn in the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss.

To awaken others is spoken for the Bodhisattvas. Bodhisattvas cultivate themselves and transform others; their self-awakening is not yet perfect, so their awakening of others is naturally not perfect either. The Buddha’s self-awakening is perfect, so His awakening of others is also perfect. The final awakening is full refers to the awakening of others; the perfection of self-awakening and the perfection of awakening others—both perfections are attained. This is called a Buddha.

Namo Amituofo.