The Mystery of the Three Hun Souls and Seven Po Souls

This is a record of an interview with the King of the Second Hell, King Chujiang, regarding the spiritual condition of Practitioner Lai Cangyang. The interview was conducted by Practitioner Su at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre in Australia on January 16, 2017.

Practitioner Su speaks:

"Namo Amituofo. We respectfully invite the King of the Second Hell, King Chujiang, to join us."

King Chujiang speaks:

"It has been a long time, Practitioner Su! Namo Amituofo."

Practitioner Su speaks:

"Namo Amituofo. By the compassion of the Buddha and the mercy of Teacher Practitioner Xia Lianju, we invite you here today. The Buddha, in His infinite compassion, has revealed that our fourfold assembly of disciples, including Practitioner A-Tao, are suffering retribution in the hells. King Chujiang, I humbly ask: how many of our disciples have had their souls taken down to the hells to suffer this retribution? I am particularly concerned about Practitioner Lai. I see that his three hun souls and seven po souls are being affected, or perhaps they are being held within those realms. I do not fully understand the nature of these three hun souls and seven po souls. I beg you, King Chujiang, to kindly explain this mystery to us. Under what circumstances are these souls seized? Practitioner Lai is clearly listening to the sutras, yet he frequently drifts into a trance-like state. In Australia, this happens often. I know he is entering another space. Please, King Chujiang, explain to us how a practitioner ends up wandering into these other spaces."

The Weight of Spiritual Accountability

King Chujiang speaks:

"Practitioner Su!"

Practitioner Su speaks:

"Yes, King Chujiang, I am listening with the utmost respect."

King Chujiang speaks:

"Shall we begin with the case of this senior practitioner?"

Practitioner Su speaks:

"Yes, because this senior practitioner is vital to the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre. He has been serving here since the very beginning of our Buddhist hall. The problem is that Practitioner Lai is constantly drifting off. How can he enter these other spaces even during walking meditation? Sometimes, even while chanting, his spirit is not unified. Seeing the severity of this, I must ask you to unravel this mystery for us. I beg for your compassion, King Chujiang."

The Gathering of Karmic Creditors

King Chujiang speaks:

"Practitioner Su! Let me first clarify the current situation. Long before you first mentioned inviting me here, the entire Dharma realm of emptiness—including the hells—was already waiting. Today is the appointed date, set for one o'clock in the afternoon."

Practitioner Su speaks:

"Indeed! The Buddha is truly compassionate."

King Chujiang speaks:

"Everyone has been waiting since noon. Although this space appears to be of a certain size, it is not what it seems. Do you all realise that your respective karmic creditors have followed me here? They have all arrived! The reason is simple: today, we are here to resolve these debts and reclaim your spirits. Why were these spirits lost in the first place? Naturally, it is because of debts owed, which the creditors have come to collect. Do you think they would miss the chance to come and see for themselves? Furthermore, there are those who have been clinging to your bodies, or those whose spiritual tokens were revoked in recent days—they have all gathered here. I do not say this to frighten you, but to inform you: it is time to kneel."

The Necessity of Sincere Repentance

Practitioner Su speaks:

"Everyone, lay out your prostration mats. We must kneel and repent. To resolve the conflicts with our karmic creditors, we must have a heart of true sincerity. You must kneel! King Chujiang of the Second Hell has stated that resolving these karmic debts may take until five o'clock this evening. Practitioner Jiaxian, your legs are not well, so it is acceptable for you to sit."

"King Chujiang, many practitioners today do not understand the gravity of the precepts. You must explain this clearly. Even while practicing, they refuse to change their personalities and continue to act as they please. You see this and understand it, do you not? The Dharma realm of emptiness is open, and the eyes of heaven and earth are watching! Please, King Chujiang, do not hold back. You must speak plainly so that we know how to face our practice. Otherwise, reaching the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss will be an impossible task!"

Practitioner Su: "Very well. Come now, may the great compassion of Namo Amituofo help us save these suffering beings. Let us resolve these conflicts. Take refuge in the Buddha and do not enter the hells; take refuge in the Dharma and do not fall into the realm of hungry ghosts; take refuge in the Sangha and do not fall into the animal realm. Listen well, all you spirits, and observe this interrogation. Bodhisattva Weituo is guarding the perimeter! Come, everyone, take your places. I have provided lotus seats for you, layer upon layer, just like a vast stadium. Sit quietly and listen! King Chujiang and I are here to resolve your grievances. No one is to cause any interference. Silence! Everyone can hear me. In a moment, King Chujiang will negotiate with the spirits. We have the speakers set up so you can all hear—turn the volume up a bit more. The spirits are now arranged in perfect order. I can see them; the entire space is like a stadium, it is massive! Hahaha! This will do, won't it?"

King Chujiang: (Nods)

Practitioner Su: "King Chujiang, your compassion is boundless. I must ask you: have the three hun souls and seven po souls of Practitioner Lai really been taken away? Why else would he have no vitality? He is completely unable to summon any energy. Is his consciousness no longer present?"

King Chujiang: "Practitioner Su!"

Practitioner Su: "Yes, King Chujiang, please have compassion."

King Chujiang: "How long has it been since you last invited the King of Hell to ascend?"

Practitioner Su: "Oh! King Chujiang, please be merciful! The fourfold assembly has been in retreat in Australia for over six months, and we haven't invited you up. Now, his brother, Yuchan, also needs to urgently invite his karmic creditors to come forward. He is not doing well either! He falls asleep at the slightest moment. I heard that while he is chanting in the temple, someone is strangling his neck. This is a serious matter."

The Weight of Karmic Debt

King Chujiang: "Sleeping, always sleeping! He falls asleep while prostrating to the Buddha, and he dozes off while reciting the Sutras."

Practitioner Su: "What should he do now?"

King Chujiang: "We can only wait for his own soul to return."

Practitioner Su: "Does he have more collective karma with his brother, Liu Mingyu? That karma seems particularly thorny."

King Chujiang: "This... to speak of their collective karma, it involves emotional attachments from the female realm. Of course, this part is quite severe, but he also has other karmic forces pulling at him. This cycle of rebirth is truly terrifying! He is a simple, honest, and good person."

Practitioner Su: "I have been taking very good care of your brother. Have you not seen it?"

King Chujiang: "Indeed, I have!"

Practitioner Su: "And now that he has become a monastic, he still cannot lift his spirits. Alas!"

King Chujiang: "Practitioner Su, the affinity between you and my brother is very deep. He never grows up; he just never grows up."

Practitioner Su: "Yes, I hear sounds outside. The space outside is like a stadium now, and your sentient beings are gathered in groups, all sitting there listening. King Chujiang, please have compassion."

The Necessity of Repentance

King Chujiang: "Everyone must repent! You must repent! Today is a magnificent Causal Condition. To have all your karmic creditors gathered here in one place is the perfect opportunity for repentance! If you do not repent, to put it bluntly, you are on a path to nowhere."

Practitioner Su: "They do not understand how to repent. They cannot see it themselves, and they are unwilling to practice. Those of us who can see know how serious it is, but they do not even realise the severity of their own physical ailments."

King Chujiang: "Everyone must understand! Today is a magnificent Causal Condition, an exception to the rule. Each person must bear their own karma; how could the laws of karma and cause and effect be something we can just sit down and chat away? Furthermore, no deity, nor any Buddha or Bodhisattva, would be willing to resolve these matters for you one by one. Firstly, it violates the laws of heaven and the principles of the cycle of rebirth. Secondly, these are karmic causes created by the individual; if you do not change yourself, how can it be easily resolved? So, is today not magnificent for the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre?"

Fourfold Assembly: "It is magnificent!"

King Chujiang: "You must chant Buddha's name in your heart and repent. Whether you can see your past or not does not matter. You must simply know that you were wrong. The reason you are still in this world today, still drifting and sinking in this sea of suffering, is because you made mistakes."

The Watchful Eyes of the Hells

King Chujiang: "This Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre is in the hells—whether in the void or within the hells themselves—I will speak of my own hell: it is extremely 'hot' here! To use your worldly terms, it is incredibly popular! The number of people coming to lodge complaints every day is staggering! Do you know that the Ten Kings of Hell are constantly reviewing the petitions submitted by the fourfold assembly of the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre? We do this to leave a path of survival for you, so that you may contribute more to the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre! We want to give you the opportunity to practice and save others. We have worn our tongues out telling them to let go of their hatred. But do you know what those who come to complain every day say? 'He hasn't changed! He is getting angry again! He is thinking of home! He is selfish! He is greedy for wealth! He is holding something back! He is hiding things!' This 'hiding' is what you call 'secret agendas'."

King Chujiang: "Every day, just like in your human world, we, the Ten Kings of Hell, have to listen to these reports. But we have no choice, because they hold legitimate petitions in their hands! And do you know what is written on these petitions? 'On such and such a year, month, day, hour, and minute, this person—for example, Chen Suqing—killed my entire family, taking their lives.' Or, 'On such and such a date, Chen Suqing raped so many women.' Or other matters concerning the fourfold assembly, such as robbery, killing, stealing, sexual misconduct, and other grave sins. They hold these proofs, and even if they want to nag for hours, we, the Ten Kings of Hell, must listen!"

King Chujiang: "There is so much you do not know. It is not just the Ten Kings of Hell; even the Buddhas, Bodhisattvas, and ancestral masters are working tirelessly for the fourfold assembly, striving to create an environment where you can practice properly, and even mitigating the spiritual obstacles that manifest. Take the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre in Australia, for example. Do you know how many layers of heavenly nets the Dharma protectors have woven around it? It is extremely difficult for external spirits to enter! If they touch these nets, they are incinerated! They suffer the pain of burning! Therefore, everyone behaves themselves, unless the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas compassionately manifest and open a gap in the net, allowing them to enter to seek Spiritual Deliverance. Only then can they transform into clouds and mist to seek Chao Du, Practitioner Su."

Practitioner Su: "Indeed! King Chujiang, please have compassion."

The Importance of the Centre

King Chujiang: "Every single day, there is a systematic and orderly process for seeking Spiritual Deliverance; otherwise, given the vastness of the void, how could practice be easy? Moreover, the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre is not an ordinary temple, and the fourfold assembly within are not ordinary people. Therefore, this Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre is of great importance in the underworld, the spiritual realms, and even in the eyes of those in the Western Land. Everyone is guarding, protecting, and cherishing it with great care. But humans are still humans. In this sea of suffering, within this Five Turbidities and Evil World, it is difficult to eradicate bad habits and negative energy. Even after practicing Buddhism for decades, it is still very hard!"

King Chujiang: "I often hear you all say, 'I must let go.' It is not that simple! Letting go of family is not that easy! And going to the Western Land is not that easy either! Everyone! If it were that easy, I, King Chujiang, would have gone to the Western Land long ago; why would I need to be here in the Hall of Hell, reviewing petitions every day? Cherish this opportunity! No matter what outsiders say or how the world criticises, it is precisely because of this that it is so difficult to save them."

King Chujiang: "In this Dharma-ending age, only when the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre truly rises can we possibly save the sentient beings throughout the entire Dharma Realm. It is truly not easy otherwise. The debts you have accumulated over millions of years of reincarnation, along with the personalities you have cultivated, your own thoughts, and your own views, are all deeply rooted. When you see others doing well, you feel jealousy! When someone truly attains the Way and manifests spiritual powers, you think they are holding deviant views. Then, I ask you, what is considered 'Right View'? Everything I have just mentioned—the vast space like a stadium—everyone is sitting there listening earnestly."

Practitioner Su: "Indeed! The order is excellent; everyone is sitting on their lotus seats listening."

King Chujiang: "This Practitioner Lai..."

Practitioner Su: "How many of his souls are missing? He has no energy left, he has no spirit, he has no energy. It is extremely serious!"

King Chujiang: "Only two of his three hun souls remain."

Practitioner Su: "Write that down, quickly! Only two souls left?"

King Chujiang: "Of the seven po souls, six are lost."

Practitioner Su: "Where are his seven po souls now? He has no energy left at all."

King Chujiang: "Practitioner Su! It has been a long time since you heard of the affairs of the hells, so allow King Chujiang to report to you."

Practitioner Su: "I would not dare, King Chujiang, please have compassion."

King Chujiang: "Recently, firstly, the hells are overcrowded; secondly, the hells have extended into the human world."

Practitioner Su: "Yes, I have seen this. I see ghosts even during the day."

King Chujiang: "Furthermore, in this human world, in this worldly realm, almost all the elderly have only one soul left, or even none at all. This is a normal phenomenon now."

Practitioner Su: "This is true. I have seen it. When people get sick, the 'flower report' [karmic manifestation] appears. If there is no purification outside, people cannot see it. The 'flower report' has already manifested, but no one knows it."

King Chujiang: "Who knows when this will finally be revealed."

Practitioner Su: "Now that King Chujiang has revealed it, the responsibility of the fourfold assembly at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre is immense. Therefore, the Teacher is compassionate, and my Buddha, Namo Amituofo, is of great compassion! The souls of the fourfold assembly can return, and only then can they have enough energy. I also know that Practitioner Liu's souls are not present, because he is also currently 'the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak'. This is evident."

King Chujiang: "Of those present, except for Practitioner Su, the old and the young can hardly escape this. This is the terrifying aspect of the current Dharma-ending age."

Practitioner Su: "King Chujiang, please have compassion and help us resolve this. The karmic creditors of the fourfold assembly can come to the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre to listen to the Sutras; if they wish to go to the Western Land, my Buddha's compassion can guide them there. We, the fourfold assembly, are very important; otherwise, if we lack physical strength, we cannot do our work."

King Chujiang: "This is unprecedented. How should we invite them back?"

Practitioner Su: "This 'unprecedented' situation means that after the spirits come out, they have nowhere to go. Once they come out, my Buddha's compassion can guide them to the Western Land. This is an excellent condition. It also allows sentient beings to stop reincarnating. This is something not found elsewhere; it is difficult to encounter in millions of years. If we were to call the spirits out and then tell them to be reborn, that would be wrong."

"I hope that the spirits connected to Practitioner Lai will come forward. You have followed him for so many lifetimes, and this cycle of karmic retribution is endless. Today, the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre is short-handed, and you know he cannot leave early; he is the one handling all the filming for the Centre, and he is also responsible for preparing the memorial tablets. Truly, without these tablets, the spirits would suffer greatly during their deliverance, which is not an option. I hope that the parents, teachers, and karmic creditors from Practitioner Lai's past lives will show mercy. If you are not ready to resolve this yet, could you perhaps first go to the Dharma-Nature Land at our Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre to listen to the Dharma? My Buddha is full of compassion, and this is a wonderful opportunity. It means that even if you still hold hatred, it does not matter—just listen to the Dharma first. In truth, if you hold onto your hatred and drag him away to be reincarnated, it only continues to grow and consume beings without pause, and you will just keep taking revenge on each other throughout your many lives."

The Mercy of King Chujiang

"King Chujiang is compassionate. Today, my Buddha is compassionate in delivering these spirits, and there is this condition available to guide them to be reborn in the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss. This is a chance that is difficult to encounter in millions of years. I ask for King Chujiang's compassion."

King Chujiang: "Most of these lost souls are currently suffering in the hells."

Practitioner Su: "I see many people suffering in the hells right now. It is not just physical fatigue that shows on them. Because this time in Australia, I have seen that our practitioner is truly struggling. Every time he sits down, he becomes dazed and loses his breath; his energy is simply insufficient. I have wanted to ask the Buddha, but I have been constantly busy, and time is so pressing that I have had little opportunity to ask. Now that we have this gap—meaning that Venerable Haize has not yet returned and there are fewer external spirits being invited—the key members of the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre must recover their energy so that the Centre can continue to function and save the world! Truly, this cycle of karmic retribution is endless."

The Weight of Karmic Debt

"We give guidance to the spirits every day through the Dharma talks, explaining that it is always 'you take revenge on me, and I take revenge on you.' In reality, they are just seizing this physical body. It is just like the case of Zhuo Shuling's older sister, Zhuo Shuwen. You saw how her karmic creditors tormented her until she was no longer human. You saw her brain surgery, and how she had to undergo surgery on various parts of her body, until eventually, she passed away. Only at the Hsiang Kuang Buddha-land was Zhuo Shuling able to save her sister, Zhuo Shuwen. The Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre placed memorial tablets to save the parents, teachers, and karmic creditors from all of Zhuo Shuwen's past lives. We are here to resolve these conflicts; we truly do not want sentient beings to suffer. You know that my Buddha is full of great compassion! I am not doing this just for Practitioner Lai; it is not worth it for the beings to follow him for so many lifetimes, nor is it worth it for the spirits following our fourfold assembly. I ask for King Chujiang's compassion."

King Chujiang: "This is not just a matter of asking for my compassion; it is about asking these spirits, these Bodhisattva-beings, to be compassionate and show mercy. Who has never made a mistake? As the saying goes, 'Even a master drummer sometimes misses a beat; who has never stumbled in their steps?'"

Practitioner Su: "Indeed! Compassionate King Chujiang, that is the truth."

King Chujiang: "Who can truly live a life that is completely upright and never make a mistake? Everyone is actually the same; we are all of one body, and we are all much the same. Today you make a mistake, tomorrow I make a mistake. A single stray thought leads to an error, and then you become attached to it within this space. Is it worth it? Is this suffering worth it?"

A Glimpse of the Western Pure Land

Practitioner Su: "King Chujiang, I see that the karmic creditors of every being here are sitting very well. Shall I manifest the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss for them to see? This is very important. Right now, the spirits of our fourfold assembly are filling the space like a playground. Let us show you the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss! My Buddha, Namo Amituofo, is full of great compassion. Look to the West! Look again at the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss!"

"Good, the conditions at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre are excellent. All you spirits are in darkness, and my Buddha is compassionate and wishes to save you all. I am not speaking for the fourfold assembly; in fact, when I speak to the fourfold assembly, they often do not listen and continue to act as they please without changing! But of course, there is a karmic affinity here to be saved and to break through the cycle of rebirth. If the fourfold assembly can recover, they will be able to do much more in the future, and everyone will gain merit. Of course! The merit Practitioner Lai has accumulated can be shared with you, and the merit accumulated by our fourfold assembly can also be shared. I ask King Chujiang to compassionately resolve this."

King Chujiang: "It remains the same. I ask these vast and boundless Bodhisattva-beings to be compassionate. Today, I, King Chujiang, represent them and act as the master for the fourfold assembly of the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre."

Practitioner Su: "Yes, King Chujiang, thank you for your compassion."

King Chujiang: "I am here to uphold justice. This is upholding justice—impartial and unbiased, not favouring any side. Whether it is the underworld or the human world, I do not take sides. What is the correct path? As long as the matter can be handled perfectly, that is good. I do not protect any one party."

Practitioner Su: "Yes, that is the Truth."

King Chujiang: "And as for these members of the fourfold assembly in the human world..."

Fourfold Assembly: "Yes, Namo Amituofo."

King Chujiang: "For the parts you cannot see, let me point them out to you one by one. This is also out of respect for the Bodhisattva-beings. Since they have already manifested, I will let you know of their presence. For instance, the women Practitioner Lai owed from his past life at the Yihong Pavilion are all here. Or perhaps from when he was a secretary or a county magistrate, the beings who suffered in floods, or the civilians—they are all here. Or those he poisoned or harmed—these beings are all in this space."

The Lingering Debt of the Past

"As for Practitioner Liu, there is the Xinghua Pavilion. Besides the Xinghua Pavilion, there are others—young and beautiful women, all gathered here. There are also the consorts, generals, and officials from when he was the King of Qi, and everyone in the palace, big or small. To put it simply in modern terms, everyone who served you is here. 'Eating a single grain of rice from another is a debt as large as Mount Sumeru.' If you do not lead them to the Western Land, they will follow you. Think of how large the entire imperial palace was, how many people served you, knelt for you, and laboured for you. If you do not lead them to a good place, they remain in the three evil paths, or within the human world. Others who remember the King of Chu are still attached to him. Thousands of troops and horses have arrived. And those who were harmed or robbed by bandits or pirates, as well as those harmed by shamanic practices—even if they were not very powerful, just small, scattered spirits—they are all present. And there are the ghosts from the Laoye Manor that were invited out yesterday, or the vengeful female ghosts waiting at home. Vengeful ghosts are wandering spirits; they can appear at any time, in any place, and in any form to take revenge!"

Practitioner Su: "Is it because his energy is relatively weak? Now that I am learning the Dharma, I can see clearly. It seems that after people in this world reach their forties or fifties, their bodies begin to decline. Is it because their energy is weak, and their three souls are constantly being seized? Is that it?"

King Chujiang: (Nods) "Exactly."

Practitioner Su: "Oh! This is terrifying. If a person has no right mindfulness in life, it is truly terrifying!"

King Chujiang: "In this human world, there is only one way to protect oneself, and that is to hold tightly to the Buddha-name. This is the only life-saving talisman. When you hold tightly to the Buddha-name, the Buddha's power is infused into you, and you have energy. When you have energy, these external spirits and the underworld find it difficult to approach you."

"When you are susceptible to being approached, the first reason is that your energy is not concentrated. Young people are full of vitality and energy; why are they still being attached to? They should be full of vigour, with their yang energy burning like a fierce flame! It is because their energy is not sufficient; it is scattered! Why is it scattered? Because their thoughts are scattered, which disperses their energy. In this state of dispersion, imagine a circle—like the moon, which has its phases of waxing and waning. If you look closely at the moon, not every part is bright; it has dark spots, depressions, and uneven surfaces. This is just like our thoughts. Here, there are many thoughts, and some are not good; there, the thoughts may be good, but the intention is still scattered. Yet, when you look at the moon from afar, it is bright and luminous, and its energy is very strong. The moon, high above and far away in the sky, can still cast its light down to the human world to provide illumination in the dark of night. Can you say its energy is not strong?"

Practitioner Su: "King Chujiang, that means chanting 'Namo Amituofo' is extremely important!"

King Chujiang: "It is important, but if you look closely, there are still flaws. If your thoughts are scattered, it is like having pieces here and there. It is like the moon being covered by dark clouds; the light that can be projected is intermittent, flickering, and not bright at all—it is quite weak. It is just like young people. When you have too many thoughts, before even talking about spiritual attachment, the negative magnetic fields around you—those belonging to the underworld or the dark, deviant paths—will cover you layer by layer, like dark clouds, first scattering your energy. Then, when you feel exhausted, it is like the dark spots on the moon expanding. These dark spots are where spiritual attachments can enter directly. Can you say that these young people will not be attached to?"

Practitioner Su: "I have seen too much of this with my own eyes. I see many people who have been attached to."

King Chujiang: "People out there do not know what the word 'thought' means. Today, you think about wanting to eat noodles, then rice; it is noon, so should I eat this or that? You look at the menu—is the signature dish good, or the side dish, or the set meal? Just ordering a meal takes a long time of thinking."

"And walking down the street, you see a newly opened shop that looks nice, or the shop you usually go to is having a sale, or you feel like you are missing something, or you want to buy something your friend bought. Or perhaps you want to spend the money you earned today. Or you are full of anger today and want to eat, spend money, or do something to vent. Just walking down one street, you have so many thoughts."

"Or you think about your family—your father is in a bad mood, your husband is in a bad mood, your son or daughter is not behaving at school, or why your mother-in-law or father-in-law is being so difficult. These thoughts are all happening at once, thinking about everything. Just as the Yogacara school and Maitreya Bodhisattva said, how many intentions exist within a single thought?"

Practitioner Su: "Contemplation allows one to find their own spiritual obstacles! Thoughts are terrifying; thoughts are truly too frightening!"

King Chujiang: "In this human world, everyone is like this, yet no one tells them that this state is wrong. It makes you feel that no matter how much you sleep, you are never rested. This is the biggest problem in the world today: no matter how you sleep, you are still tired; no matter how you sleep, you never feel satisfied. So, when those who are exhausted from work reach the weekend, they either sleep from morning until night or sleep until the next day, right up until they have to go back to work. Yet, they wake up still feeling tired. But when the time comes, they have to go to work, so they go. However, no one knows where they went during those long hours of sleep. Since they were clearly resting, why are they still tired? Why are they even more exhausted?"

Practitioner Su: "Is it because when the spirit is pulled away, the body quickly becomes exhausted?"

King Chujiang: "Exactly! Why do you feel sleepy? It is because the sentient beings have arrived. Why is it that when you are asleep, you know nothing? You could poke me, pinch me, hit me, or beat me, and I simply would not wake up. Is that not the spirit leaving the body? When the spirit is not in the body, it is like a cloth doll. Without a controller, how can it move? If you throw a cloth doll on the ground, can it move on its own? If you do not pull it, if you do not hold the strings to make it walk or raise its hand, can it move? Those who sleep deeply are the ones whose spirits have gone far away! Or perhaps their three hun souls and seven po souls have all departed. Some people are easily awakened and have some awareness, perhaps because some parts of their spirit are still in the body, or perhaps because others are guarding their bodies. It is terrifying! When you cannot see it, you do not know; but once you see it, it is terrifying! The reason people cannot come to the truth lies right here."

The Tragedy of the Cloth Doll

Practitioner Su: "It would be a disaster if people in this world did not truly practice the Dharma!"

King Chujiang: "A cloth doll is manipulated by others—is that what you want? It is pitiful and tragic! Yet, people are still attached to this world, attached to this skin bag, attached to this cloth doll and refuse to let go. What must be said to wake them up? In the end, this skin bag—take the recently deceased, for example, this Zhu Shuwen, was she not cremated and burned to ashes? So, what did she leave behind in this world? Nothing more than three characters: 'Zhu Shuwen.' She was once the eldest sister of Zhu Shuling, once the wife of her husband, the daughter of her family, the daughter of the Zhu family, a good daughter. What is left now?"

Practitioner Su: "Being a human is useless! Once you die, it is a final farewell."

King Chujiang: "And as time passes, Zhu Shuwen will be nothing more than a name heard in memory. For those with deep affection, they might say, 'She was my beloved eldest sister,' but that is all it amounts to. The cloth doll simply vanishes. You tell me, is there any point in being so attached?"

The Danger of Hidden Karmic Debts

Practitioner Su: "We truly cannot be attached to the body! The problem now is that I only realized Yu Yutao was in hell after I saw it. Seeing that several of us in the fourfold assembly have also fallen into hell, I was terrified and told the Teacher. I asked King Chujiang to rescue the souls of these few people so that we can help sentient beings at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre and maximize our efforts. I see that every member of the fourfold assembly has fallen down there; if we do not change our personalities, it is very frightening! Do not look at our skin and think we are fifty trillion years old; inside, we carry the weight of our past lives and kalpas."

King Chujiang: "This is indeed an inconceivable Causal Condition. Because Yu Yutao was suffering retribution in hell, Practitioner Su discovered it through observation; otherwise, even if these fourfold assembly disciples were all undergoing retribution, no one would mention it, and no one would save them. It is reasonable and lawful for them to be undergoing retribution. How could the Yama King simply say, 'You are innocent, go up'? That is impossible. If Practitioner Su had not spoken up and requested help, they would have had to endure the full extent of their crimes for the entire duration of their sentences."

Practitioner Su: "The body will collapse; Yu Yutao is constantly breaking down."

King Chujiang: "Indeed!"

Practitioner Su: "When the three hun souls and seven po souls are snatched away, the body cannot be the master and will constantly collapse. Our Brother Lai is breaking down, and now I see Brother Liu is also collapsing. It is so terrifying!"

King Chujiang: "Practitioner Su, these two are slowly entering old age, and as for this young one, Qiu Jiahong..."

Practitioner Su: "Is he the same?"

King Chujiang: "Be careful! Child, if you want to practice, you must practice properly. With even a hint of selfishness, your facial features change, you are occupied, and you cannot be the master. Right now, he cannot be the master."

A Plea for Compassion

Practitioner Su: "Then, since they have already targeted Brother Lai, and he has only one hun soul left and only one po soul remaining, I ask the sentient beings and Bodhisattvas who have taken him to please show mercy. I just showed you the Western Land. It does not matter if you do not resolve this now; we are all here listening to the Dharma, and it is not good to be in this space. My Buddha is compassionate. It is only because we can see you that we have a way to save you. If you insist on snatching Brother Lai away, he can be reborn in the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss. You must know that my Buddha's compassion can take him to the West. I hope that the spirits attached to Brother Lai can also be led by me to the West. Look at my heart; you can see it, right? My heart and mind are equal. I am not taking sides. Therefore, I ask King Chujiang to show compassion and make the decision for us."

King Chujiang: "Practitioner Su, regarding these lost three hun souls and seven po souls, do you know that others have replaced them?"

Practitioner Su: "What does King Chujiang mean?"

King Chujiang: "It is destined to be ten seats, and now six seats are empty. It is like a game of musical chairs; if you do not sit, I will."

Practitioner Su: "Is being possessed called 'sitting inside the body'?"

King Chujiang: "To explain possession more clearly, any external spirit that enters the body is called possession. But what I just mentioned regarding the vacancies of the three hun souls and seven po souls—those are the possessions that can control your blood circulation. Others are merely hidden and obstructing; they might cause the body to be sluggish, or cause dizziness and a lack of clarity, and so on. These are other possessions of the skin bag. The central possession is the one occupying the vacancy of the three hun souls and seven po souls. They can take turns being the master—today it is your turn, tomorrow it is mine. Everyone coexists peacefully. Today you manifest, tomorrow I manifest. That is why the complexion changes; today you play 'A', tomorrow you play 'B', and the day after you play 'C'."

The Truth Behind the Tiredness

"Today your personality is strong because 'A' is strong; today you are gentle and soft because 'B's personality is like that. All these things are just like that. And to answer Practitioner Su's question just now: why is it that in Australia, as soon as people sit down, they fall asleep? The body belongs to the 'yin' (dark/cold), while the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre belongs to the 'yang' (light/warm). It is a place of supreme 'yang' energy, a land of extreme 'yang'! This Buddha-light is like incomparable sunlight shining upon an 'yin' body. When the 'yin' body cannot withstand it, it faints."

"Just as everyone has seen—those ghost movies are actually quite well-acted and realistic. When you tell a ghost to walk on the road, he has to hold a black umbrella. When the person who wants to harm the ghost takes the black umbrella away, doesn't he scream? He cannot withstand the sunlight. They act as if he is 'soul-scattered,' which is dramatized, so just watch it for entertainment. But what it tries to express is that when sunlight shines on an 'yin' body, 'yin' and 'yang' cannot coexist. Therefore, it is normal to fall asleep; it corresponds to their nature. And this is where you must see the terrifying aspect of the body's changes, Practitioner Su."

Practitioner Su: "This way of thinking is too terrifying! So, having a 'personality' just means someone else is in control."

King Chujiang: "How many people fall asleep in a lecture hall!"

Practitioner Su: "Indeed! Oh my! Many of our fourfold assembly disciples fall asleep as soon as they sit down to listen to the Dharma."

King Chujiang: "But fortunately, isn't there a sign posted here with these two lines? 'Only by manifesting here can one be saved.'"

Practitioner Su: "Indeed! Hahaha! My Buddha is of great compassion!"

The Invisible World

King Chujiang: "Do not be afraid, there is still salvation! But you must realize that your situation is very serious! And what is even more terrifying is: since it is like this here, do you still dare to go home? Does your home have Buddha-light? Does your home have Dragon and Heaven Dharma Protectors? Let me tell you, your home is filled with mountains and valleys of karmic creditors. You cannot see them, but I can see them, Practitioner Su can see them, and there is someone present here who can also see them. Mountains and valleys of them! No matter how big your house is, they are several times larger. How can this space be limited by a house!"

"There are spaces within spaces, layer upon layer. Your home has your scent, your home has your destiny. Suppose Liu Mingyu lives in a certain section of the Old Master's Villa; this unit is your residence. In the void, it is known that the characters 'Liu Mingyu' are manifested there, and this house is where he is. And the so-called 'human energy' of long-term residence—why do people say a house has human energy? Because living in this house, it has the scent of Liu Mingyu. This brings us back to the new method Practitioner Su said the Buddha taught: Yu Yutao's scent comes here, comes here—this is human energy. Why do sentient beings look for you and not him, look for me and not you? Because they want this scent. They want this scent. This was the scent they smelled at the very end, the scent they hated, the scent they had when they were in the three evil paths—for example, the scent of insects, or the scent of blood and hatred. Speaking of blood, Practitioner Su!"

Practitioner Su: "It is too terrifying. The Buddha-name 'Namo Amituofo' is a protective talisman; you must hold onto it tightly! Save your own life!"

King Chujiang: "Why didn't Huang Ronghua come today?"

Practitioner Su: "Indeed! I see that he is sickly now because he wants to go to the famous mountains, and all the spirits have found him. There is nothing to be done about this; it is Causal Conditions! As for Liu Mingyu, I see his face change every time he comes, so I went to his house to look. It turns out there are many ghosts in his house; his wife spoils him too much, there is no way around it. So I see his energy is insufficient, and when his energy is insufficient, it is very serious."

King Chujiang: "Brother Liu!"

Brother Liu Mingyu: "Yes."

King Chujiang: "I am giving you a great merit to cultivate. Make a phone call to Brother Huang. Qin Shi Huang—to be able to save Qin Shi Huang is an immeasurable merit! Whether he comes or not is up to Causal Conditions, but you should make that call."

Brother Liu Mingyu: "Yes."

Practitioner Su: "Outside, I see many spirits being snatched away. You must know that if our bodies are not well, we must truly practice! If you do not truly practice, your spirits will be snatched away. Grandma is telling you the truth. Now, regarding Brother Lai's three hun souls and seven po souls, I ask King Chujiang for compassion. I invite his sentient beings to the Dharma-Nature Land of the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre. Brother Lai has performed many merits at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre. My Buddha is compassionate! Your merits are sufficient, you have been very dedicated, and you have contributed a lot to the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre."

King Chujiang: "The vacancies for the lost souls have now been cleared, and the karmic creditors are kneeling and listening to the Dharma in the front hall of the Buddha hall, while the lost souls are also being suspended in hell. Just let them enter the body."

Practitioner Su: "Yes, should King Chujiang call them, or should I?"

King Chujiang: "They are already manifested; please invite them to enter."

Practitioner Su: "Yes. Now, six of his seven po souls are missing. Can these six souls enter now? Very well. Listen closely: by the great compassion of the Buddha, you who are occupying Practitioner Lai's body, I ask you to come out and enter the Dharma-Nature Land of our Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre to listen to the Dharma. If you chant Namo Amituofo, you can be reborn in the Western Pure Land, and I can personally guide you there. Now, for these six po souls and the true self of Lai Cangyang: come, take refuge in the Buddha and do not enter the hells; take refuge in the Dharma and do not fall into the realm of hungry ghosts; take refuge in the Sangha and do not fall into the animal realm. Come, return to his body. May the Buddha have compassion. Namo Amituofo, Namo Amituofo, Namo Amituofo. King Chujiang, have they entered? Good! There is still one hun soul left, and it is very important."

The Final Soul in the Sixth Hall

King Chujiang: (Nods) This one soul...

Practitioner Su: In which hall is the remaining soul?

King Chujiang: The Sixth Hall.

Practitioner Su: To the beings of the Sixth Hall, I show you the Western Pure Land. Come! Look at the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss. May the Buddha have compassion. The cycle of karmic retribution is endless. Today, King Chujiang is presiding, and the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre is preparing to build a temple. Lai Cangyang is very important. May the Buddha have compassion; the merits that Lai Cangyang accumulates in the future can be shared with you. With this, can his soul return?

King Chujiang: You must first make this vengeful spirit truly convinced!

Practitioner Su: Write it down for her. Quickly, write the memorial tablet.

King Chujiang: (Handwrites: Xue Baolan)

Practitioner Su: How many lifetimes has she been following him?

King Chujiang: She has been following him for ten or eleven lifetimes.

Practitioner Su: Then, King Chujiang, should we write it or not?

King Chujiang: Let her speak a few words!

A Vengeful Spirit's Lament

Practitioner Su: Very well. Come, Jiaxian, sit here. Now, we respectfully invite Xue Baolan, who has seized one of Practitioner Lai's souls, to return it. Please, come out!

Xue Baolan: You think it's that easy? I have suffered so much!

Practitioner Su: Practitioner Lai can be reborn in the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss.

Xue Baolan: I know.

Practitioner Su: He can be reborn in the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss. It is not worth it for you to have followed him for eleven lifetimes. Once he no longer has a physical body, you will not be able to catch him, and you will be left waiting in the vast space for immeasurable eons. Is that what you want?

Xue Baolan: It is worth it!

Practitioner Su: You are very stubborn and full of attachment! Practitioner Lai, you must apologise to her. You did not know about the past, and if there were any offences, please ask for her forgiveness.

Practitioner Lai: I am sorry. I was ignorant in the past; please forgive me.

Practitioner Su: Practitioner Lai is an honest person.

Xue Baolan: He wasn't honest before.

Practitioner Su: You must understand now that the world is in chaos. I want to save you, too. The Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre is saving all spirits in the space. You know my heart, don't you?

Xue Baolan: And if I do?

Practitioner Su: Have you ever seen the West? Let her see the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss! Look at the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss. May the Buddha have compassion. Emotions are deceptive. Today, King Chujiang is also being compassionate to save you. You see that I have no hidden agenda, right? I am not taking his side; this is compassion! Shall I personally guide you? Shall we go to the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre to listen to the Dharma?

Xue Baolan: (Weeping) I don't want to let him go. Why should I let him go?

Practitioner Su: If you let him go, this lifetime will be Practitioner Lai's final one. He can go to the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss, and you will never be able to find him again. You will suffer greatly in the space. Practitioner Lai, quickly tell her to go to the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss. Give her something to wipe her tears.

Practitioner Lai: I am sorry. I did wrong. I was very bad. You must chant Namo Amituofo. If you go to the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss, you can be liberated from suffering. Life is too painful.

The Path to Liberation

Practitioner Su: It is not worth it to have followed him for eleven lifetimes! You are just waiting in the space.

Xue Baolan: (Sobbing uncontrollably) My heart hurts. My heart feels like it is being cut by a knife. I sacrificed everything for him, and in the end, he bullied me.

Practitioner Su: Alright, go up now! Is that okay? Calm your heart. Let the Buddha's water wash over you; purification! Calm your heart! May the Buddha have compassion. Go now! I will guide you! Come up!

Xue Baolan: I want to be in his heart forever. I want to be in his heart forever.

Practitioner Su: No problem. Look at how much you are suffering! Do not do such foolish things again. Look, we are all practicing to be liberated from suffering. Do not cling to emotions; emotions are deceptive.

Xue Baolan: I know they are deceptive, but I just cannot let him go.

Practitioner Su: Alright, go up for a while first.

Xue Baolan: If I go up, I will be separated from him forever.

Practitioner Su: You will not.

Practitioner Lai: You will not. Go and wait for me there.

Practitioner Su: You will not be separated because you can see him every day. You can see him.

Xue Baolan (the spirit): Is that true?

Practitioner Su: It is.

Xue Baolan (the spirit): You must not lie to me again!

Practitioner Su: I would never lie to you. Go up and see for yourself. You will be able to see him, and you will not be in the darkness. I see you are squeezed to death deep inside his body along with other spirits. Come out! Is that okay? Come up!

Xue Baolan (the spirit): You must not lie to me!

Practitioner Su: I will not lie to you. Look, come, look at the Western Dharma-Nature Land of the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre. May the Buddha have compassion. It is a world of light. Wait for him there! Once he accumulates merits and virtues, he will be able to ascend.

Xue Baolan (the spirit): Will you come up to accompany me?

Practitioner Su: I will. You go up first. Take refuge in the Buddha and do not enter the hells; take refuge in the Dharma and do not fall into the realm of hungry ghosts; take refuge in the Sangha and do not fall into the animal realm. Then, calm your heart and return to your original state! May the Buddha have compassion. Come up, come up. Has she entered? King Chujiang, has she entered? Good, that is fine. Enter the Western Dharma-Nature Land of the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre. Now, has his soul entered?

King Chujiang: Not yet.

Practitioner Su: Where is his soul? Do I need to call it?

King Chujiang: (Nods)

Practitioner Su: Very well. Come, the hun and po souls of Lai Cangyang, his one soul, Namo Amituofo, Namo Amituofo, Namo Amituofo. Come, may the Buddha have compassion, return quickly! Lai Cangyang, enter through the crown of the head! May the Buddha have compassion. Has it entered?

King Chujiang: (Nods)

The Importance of Daily Practice

Practitioner Su: Good. Practitioner Lai, all your three hun and seven po souls have returned. Offer three prostrations to thank King Chujiang, then go to the Buddha hall in front to offer ten prostrations to thank the Buddha for His great compassion. Now, can Lai Cangyang's energy be restored? Does he need to prostrate to the Buddha? How many prostrations must he do a day? Everyone at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre is complaining that there is not enough time! King Chujiang, please have compassion and set his daily practice.

King Chujiang: That goes without saying! But he still has to go home, does he not?

Practitioner Su: Go home, ha-ha!

King Chujiang: This Huang Shuqin... would it be alright to let him rest for seven days to recover his energy?

Practitioner Su: Practitioner Huang says to let him stay here to prostrate to the Buddha and let him nurture his energy.

King Chujiang: You may also stay here for seven days; this is also being together. But first, refuse any further intrusion from outside spirits. Let the Buddha’s light shine upon him first, and let his vital energy be restored. Is that acceptable?

Practitioner Su: Practitioner Huang Shuqin, did you hear that? Your husband must stay here first to let his vital energy return. You go back, and let him stay here to prostrate to the Buddha for a while. His spirit has only just returned.

King Chujiang: But I must say this clearly, and this is for all the fourfold assembly of disciples.

Fourfold Assembly: Yes, please speak.

King Chujiang: What has been resolved today is only temporary. You must understand the word "temporary." It is not permanent; it does not mean your three hun and seven po souls will be safe forever. If one day your thoughts fall back into the same problems and the same habits that caused you to be seized in the first place, would that not be repeating the same mistakes? Therefore, you must seize the day. When you are able to gather, quickly elevate your energy. Do not let your thoughts scatter; let your energy gather and become full. It would be best if it could be as intense as the Buddha-light or the sunlight.

This is the "primary retribution" influencing the "dependent retribution." It is not about being influenced and led away wherever you go, or being led away by the circumstances of others. Instead, it is about the Buddha-light of the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre reaching here, into the space, into the void, and into the local environment at that moment. Those who are illuminated should all be saved. It is not about walking here and feeling dizzy, wondering if spirits have arrived, or feeling that the magnetic field of the space is bad. For example, when returning to Taiwan from Australia, why is the magnetic field in Taiwan like this? My heart feels uncomfortable, my head feels dizzy—this is being led by the environment. You have not introduced the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre to others; this is also a way of advertising in the unseen realm. You must properly elevate your energy.

Practitioner Su: Gratitude to King Chujiang of the Second Hall. Very well! Let us chant the Buddha's name ten times to send off King Chujiang.