This is a record of an interview with the late Venerable Master Sheng Yen, who sought deliverance at the Hsiang Kuang Buddhist Centre in Australia. He reflects upon his life, the legacy of Drum Mountain, and the profound necessity of true renunciation. This testimony was recorded by the chief writer, Shi Faxi, on August 3, 2017.
Venerable Master Sheng Yen speaks:
". I am Sheng Yen. Without a heart of renunciation, one remains trapped in the worldly. The Buddha’s teachings should not be secularised, for we are meant to pursue the highest level of the heart—that is liberation. It is the path to true freedom.
Dharma Drum Mountain has spread across the entire world, yet not a single person has achieved rebirth in the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss. Why? Because the worldly mind remains far too heavy. Our reputation as a school of Chan Buddhism is vast, with millions of followers and monastics across the globe. Everyone knows to come to Dharma Drum Mountain to participate in Chan retreats. However, my failure has only now been truly revealed. A failed practitioner will inevitably suffer from multiple organ failure at the end of life. This is the result of the spirits of beings scattering in chaos; the internal organs are shaken to their core because, in the final moments of life, one has failed to pacify the anger of the ghost deities.
The Weight of Secularisation
We are monastics, leaders of the community. It is easy to establish a relationship with the ghost deities, but to earn their respect, one must be completely without bias or deviation. I must admit the truth: I transmitted the Buddha’s teachings in a way that was far too worldly. I truly created a secular Buddhist affair rather than a genuine Buddhist practice. I led Dharma Drum Mountain toward the wrong objective. While focusing on the level of the heart is good, making it worldly is a mistake. You may find it hard to imagine what I mean by worldly, or perhaps you have never even considered it. In truth, without a heart of renunciation, everything is worldly.
Concepts like spiritual environmentalism, the Four-Fold Movement of the Heart, etiquette environmentalism, and the Six Ethics of the Heart—these are all behaviours within the human world. They are indeed part of a Pure Land on Earth, but they are merely the basic principles of being a good human. They are magnificent for the initial stages of learning Buddhism and serve as a very good foundation. However, if these theories remain the focus from beginning to end, and if even a high-ranking master remains stuck at this level, you should understand my sorrow. The Buddha’s teachings should be far more magnificent than this.
The Path to True Liberation
The Buddha’s teachings should not be secularised. We should be pursuing the highest level of the heart, which is liberation—the renunciation of the three realms of rebirth. It is the . It is the fundamental rejection of this world and the attainment of complete , rather than remaining fixated on one's own heart and mind. This principle is profound, but it is the absolute truth.
Venerable Guozhao, my final days, the symptoms of my illness, and the announcement of my passing—all of these involved the participation and hard work of my disciples. I have one final request: I hope you will bring some of the younger monastics to the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre to study and practise. This is a rare and precious experience. The younger monastics will better understand how to practise in the future; this is truly excellent. As for those of the 'Guo' generation, you are already in the role of mentors and parents; you yourselves must strive for a breakthrough.
The Essence of Practice
You must believe my words. What we call skills or kung fu—everyone has the potential for it, but only through realisation can one achieve success. To realise it means to be without a heart of attachment. If you are still caught up in your own and , you are still forever distant from the goal. This kung fu is not about supernatural powers; it is entirely your own innate ability, simply purified and developed. Let us discuss the future of Dharma Drum Mountain: it cannot be a failure. Everyone must achieve rebirth in the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss.
