This is a record of an interview with the Venerable Master Chin Kung, who now resides in the Western Land of Nature. This account reflects upon his teachings regarding the nature of human seeking. Recorded by the chief writer, Shi Haize, on October 20, 2022.
Venerable Master Chin Kung speaks:
". Today, the topic that Namo Amituofo has set for me is 'Seeking'. This is a broad, open-ended subject. To make it more accessible, I will use a few examples to explore its depth, keeping our conversation light and reflective.
The word 'seeking' encompasses so much: pursuing, searching, hunting, looking, and exploring. In the heart of every person, there is, to some degree, a constant search for the direction of life. Think of a newborn child—when they are hungry, they cry; when their nappy is wet, they cry. At that stage, their needs are purely physical. Once those needs are met—once they are fed or changed and feel comfortable—the crying stops. This is the most basic form of seeking, driven by the needs of .
The Instinct of Seeking
As the child grows, they begin to develop spiritual and emotional needs. They start to look for something. What are they looking for? They are searching for the familiar figures or voices that appear in their daily lives. If they cannot find them, they begin to cry. When that figure or voice appears, they feel satisfied, and the crying ceases. Of course, the most common figure is the primary caregiver—a mother or an elder. At that age, the child does not understand the nature of the relationship; they simply use their basic physical memory to sense the presence of the other. When the voice calls their name, or when the familiar silhouette appears, they feel safe, satisfied, and at peace.
As they grow older, they learn to sit, crawl, stand, walk, and run. Throughout every stage, they are constantly seeking, pursuing different goals at different times. When a child learns to sit, there is an inner drive pushing them to do so. Perhaps rolling over is no longer enough to satisfy them, so the body naturally develops the motivation to sit up. Once they can sit, that action satisfies a specific emotional need. After mastering sitting, they begin to seek again—perhaps they want to reach for an object, but they are stuck sitting. This desire to reach the object naturally triggers the action of crawling. When they can finally crawl and grasp the object, they are overjoyed. Adults often encourage this by placing an object just out of reach, prompting the child to crawl. When the child finally gets what they want, they are happy, and the adults are happy too. Both parties are satisfied. For the child, they have found what they were seeking; for the adult, their expectations for the child's development have been met.
The Complexity of Human Desire
Is every stage of our growth not exactly like this? We move from simple, singular pursuits to complex, multifaceted ones. In this process, our hearts become increasingly complicated. A multitude of desires arise, and we go out to search, to hunt, and to find methods to satisfy ourselves—whether those needs are physical, spiritual, or emotional.
When these needs intensify, they become 'desires'. Once a desire is satisfied, new ones emerge, dictated by our age, our environment, or our expectations. We find, we are satisfied, and if we do not find, we continue to search. We are always hoping to find that which will bring peace to our hearts. A person's entire life is spent in this constant process of seeking. As a child grows, they face the pressure of studies, the interactions and comparisons with peers, and the expectations placed upon them by adults. The child wants to satisfy those expectations, so they seek out goals and strive to achieve them. As they grow older, they face the question of whether to continue their education. Regardless of whether one reaches high school, university, a master's degree, or a doctorate, there is always a point where one must leave the academic field. These processes involve a constant interaction between the body, the heart, and the spirit. Sometimes, there are conflicts or contradictions that require us to find answers before we can take the next step. Some people find these answers on their own and move forward; others follow the advice of parents, elders, or teachers; still others combine the advice of others with their own opinions to decide their path. When opinions clash, it is time to make a choice, and you must search even deeper to understand what it is that you truly want.
The Turning Point of Life
You might spend time searching in various ways, gathering information and listening to others, but the final decision always rests with you. If you are still a child, that is manageable; adults can see clearly and explain things to help you make a suitable decision. But if you are an adult, you may find yourself seeking a companion to share your life with. This is a major turning point. The kind of partner you find will change the course of your life. Some are lucky and find a good companion to walk through life with, while others face a rocky, agonising road in marriage. This, too, is a part of life. At such times, many decisions or interferences arise, and the choices you make will have a profound impact on your future. It is a massive transformation!
Many people may have the opportunity to encounter the Buddha's teachings at this stage. Those with good roots will naturally seek answers in this direction. What we call 'good roots' are the causes planted in the past; when the external conditions mature, the motivation to seek answers arises. This is what we call 'external conditions'. The result, or the 'fruit', is the choice you make. How you choose to walk the path of learning the Buddha's teachings will determine the direction of your life.
Some choose the path of marriage, while others choose to remain single. The difference is immense. Regardless of the result, a new journey of seeking begins. Those who step onto the path of marriage must start seeking more income to support their family, or provide for their children as they grow. Every expense, large or small, requires money. You must seek a high income—the more, the better—but it must be done through the righteous path. If your actions harm your own body, heart, or spirit, or those of others, you must never do it. The consequences of such actions do not just affect you; the negative causes you create and the evil consequences you reap may also affect your family. Therefore, everyone should earn their wealth honestly and steadily.
If one chooses to remain single, they must also search. Although they are free from the burdens of a partner, they must still find their own footing and ensure that their life is not only sustainable but fulfilling. Once those needs are met, they may still feel a void in their heart, and the search begins again. If one remains single for the sake of practice, that is indeed a wise choice. I do not say this simply because I am a practitioner and a monk; I say this as an elder who has seen so many changes in the world. It is not just a suggestion; it is a path to liberation from suffering, from birth, aging, sickness, and death. It is the ultimate path, but how you walk it depends on your .
The Ultimate Path
Let us narrow our focus further. If you choose to step onto the path of practice, it is truly a wise decision. You have fewer attachments and your life becomes much simpler, allowing you to dedicate your time, energy, and strength to your practice. Whether you are a lay practitioner or a volunteer, it is all viable. Since you have chosen not to marry, monastic life is a feasible path, as it provides you with better conditions to find your true self without having to continue searching. That 'self' can only be found through the process of practice; it is called the 'true self'. Those who have realised their true nature no longer need to search. They no longer need to hunt. They possess everything; what else is there to seek? All they need to do is to continuously give of what they possess—an endless, boundless giving. Yet, they do not feel it is 'giving'. Everything is so natural. People may perceive it as giving, but to those who have realised their true nature, it is simply a part of who they are. To save beings, to help them find their own true nature, or to help them leave suffering behind—this is the vow of one who has realised their true nature. At that point, the power of the vow has replaced the process of searching, hunting, and looking. What a beautiful thing that is!
If you marry, have children, and go through birth, aging, sickness, and death, and yet, after this life ends, you still fall into the six realms of rebirth, then in your next life, you will have to continue searching, waiting, and looking. You will find a result, continue to search, wait, find a result, and then continue to reincarnate endlessly. You are always searching, and that is very painful because your heart can never find stability.
Because your heart fluctuates during the process of searching, moving with external conditions, you are constantly looking for a way to find peace, a way to settle your heart and keep it quiet. If these methods work, you are temporarily satisfied; if they do not, you must continue to search. Throughout this entire process, you are accompanied by birth, aging, sickness, and death. Because no matter how you search or what the result is, your life is actually unfolding according to your —it is all on the path determined by your past actions. No matter how you change, you are still moving forward on this path, pausing, and eventually facing aging, sickness, and death, which end your life. Is that not tragic? You have spent so much time, energy, and spirit, only to find that the result was already determined long ago. Namo Amituofo."
"If you do not seek to change, but merely continue to tread the same path in place, then that is simply the destiny you have carved out for yourself. If you exhaust your life force to earn money, chasing performance targets and seeking a higher income to support your family and ensure your wife and children live well, only to find yourself broken by illness in the end—the suffering is yours alone, the pain is yours alone, and no one can bear it for you. We see this kind of life all too often. It is the path you were destined to walk, but tell me, is it not bitter? A life spent in constant searching, hunting, and striving, only to find that you have merely been following a pre-written script. The result is that in your next life, you repeat the exact same process.
Perhaps you are lucky enough to be reborn with a human body, wearing this human skin, or perhaps you fall into the hells to suffer retribution, or are relegated to the animal realm, or become a hungry ghost. Is that worth it? It is a profound tragedy, for when you possess a human body, you have the capacity to make different choices. You do not have to follow the trajectory of . There is only one way out: the path of practice. You must make a vow, and your vow must be greater than your karma; only then can you transform your karma and break free from its shackles, rather than following the track of birth, aging, sickness, and death throughout your life. Only through practice can you find a way, and your vow must be stronger than your karma. Otherwise, even as you practice, your karma will manifest, and if your vow is not firm enough, you will still be led by your karma. Many people live their entire lives this way. However, if you truly practice, there is always an opportunity for you to achieve success, and that is to realise your true nature—to stop this endless cycle of searching, hunting, and striving."
The of Namo Amituofo
"As I, Chin Kung, speak of this, I invite you all to look back on your own lives and reflect on whether this is how you have walked your path. My Buddha, Namo Amituofo, is truly, infinitely compassionate! The is a realm that seeks to purify our body, heart, and spirit, which is why He has gifted us the six-character name: 'Namo Amituofo'. He hopes that by chanting this name, we can purify our body, heart, and spirit, and stop this aimless searching. If you have already found this six-character name, if you have stepped onto this path of practice and are moving forward, then do not hesitate. Follow the Buddha and the Buddha-name, and continue to walk forward on this path.
However, it also depends on your Dharma affinity. Many people reach this stage, but as they move forward, they encounter obstacles or tests. If you do not receive the help of noble people—what we call true spiritual friends—or the guidance of Buddhas and Bodhisattvas, or the assistance of Dharma protectors, you may end up on a perilous path. A perilous path means deviating from the righteous path and the Truth, entering instead into deviant paths or the demon path. If you do not meet a noble person to save you and you continue down that road, it becomes difficult to return to the righteous path, let alone speak of finding your true self. Entering a deviant or demon path takes you even further from your true self. And what is the result of going further? You are still searching, still hunting, still striving. Striving for what? Striving for achievement, for satisfaction, for desire. The result is that you create even greater karma, and in the end, you suffer even heavier retribution and pain. This is the fate of a life spent in the demon realm. Therefore, no matter what, you must return to the righteous path. Only by continuing forward on this true path of practice can you purify yourself again and again, until it is possible to find your true self and finally cease your searching, your hunting, and your striving, allowing your heart to truly settle."
The Constant State of True Nature
"The concentration within one's true nature is constant and unchanging. Before you reach your true nature, that concentration still contains variables; you have not yet reached a state of constancy. Constancy means that you are no longer moved. If we speak of meditation, no matter how deep your meditative concentration may be, there is always a time when you must emerge from it. But the concentration of one who has realised their true nature and attained Buddhahood is constant and unchanging. It is not affected by any external interference, nor is it limited by time or space. What a beautiful state that is!
In this lifetime, I, Chin Kung, hoped to find my true nature. That is why, during my sixty years of lecturing on the Dharma, I was also cultivating myself, hoping that all aspects of my life could progress in tandem. As I moved forward in various areas, I hoped to remain in a state of concentration and purity. One must have awareness; the most important thing is not to be lost, not to walk toward a deviant path. My Buddha is compassionate and has always been blessing me, but I, Chin Kung, did not live up to that. In the later years of my life, a single thought was not pure, and I disrupted everything. That is why I later made incorrect judgments and decisions regarding the actions of Practitioner Su, which deviated from the right path. Because I knew I was a person of influence, I led everyone away from the track of the Pure Land. Perhaps the monastics, Dharma protectors, and followers saw the signs, but they did not say much; they trusted me and followed me. This is my sin."
The Weight of Karmic Consequences
"Although these are things of the past, they are still ongoing today, and the consequences are a retribution that I, Chin Kung, must bear. The laws of karma and cause and effect are a complex relationship; in the midst of it, you may simply be following your karma. If you do not transform your karma, you have no choice but to accept it; if you do transform it, there are variables, and you can escape this karma and attain liberation. Why do I say this? Because I previously obstructed Practitioner Su from entering the Pure Land school to save sentient beings and help everyone connect with Namo Amituofo to be reborn in the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss. Therefore, I must now do my utmost to call upon everyone to let Practitioner Su return to the Pure Land school, to make up for the mistakes I made previously—to compensate as much as I can.
So now, I, Chin Kung, am waiting. I have no opportunity to search, and no opportunity to hunt, because I no longer have a body. I am now just a spirit; without a body, I cannot do anything. Whether you want to find a way to help yourself rectify this, or search for which method might be better, every single one requires a body to act. Now that I have no body, I can only rely on this opportunity given to me by Namo Amituofo to clarify things here, to explain them clearly. I hope everyone will not follow in my footsteps; it is truly bitter! If I had realised my true nature, I would not have made these mistakes. I would not have needed to search, for I would have understood clearly how to walk the path and would not have taken the wrong turn. Moreover, the Pure Land's two-power method is there, and Namo Amituofo is there. As long as you are honest, listen, and do not have selfish motives or inappropriate desires, the Buddha can help you."
The Uncertainty of the Final Hour
"Once you have selfish motives, once you have personal needs, and once your desires must be satisfied—these are all inappropriate thoughts, and they are not what you were originally meant to have. Once you have them, you have deviated. If you do not correct yourself in time and continue to deviate, you will go further and further astray. This lifetime will pass, and life is limited; what follows is that you must accept the retribution for the path you chose. If you are a monastic, you are knowingly breaking the law, and your sin is doubled. As for lay practitioners and volunteers, they are also very important. The spreading of the Buddha's teachings requires their support. Therefore, everyone must fulfill their own responsibilities; spreading the Dharma and protecting the Dharma must go hand in hand. My life was spent in such circumstances. If it were not for the Dharma protectors who trusted me and supported me with all their might, I would not have been able to walk this path so smoothly, and perhaps you all would have had fewer opportunities to come into contact with the Pure Land.
Because of the Dharma protectors, more people heard about the Pure Land, were able to chant the Buddha's name, and made the vow to be reborn in the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss. It is just that there are too many variables in this process. Being able to persist in chanting the Buddha's name until the very last moment of life to seek rebirth in the West is still not guaranteed. Some people still do not make it. Only when you truly step onto the soil of the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss can it be said that your wish to be reborn in the West has been truly fulfilled.
Looking ahead now, who can say they no longer need to search? Who will not have questions that require searching for answers? It seems that, apart from the Buddhas, Bodhisattvas, and the ancestral masters, in the human world, there is probably only Practitioner Su. Some might say, 'Venerable Master, isn't that a bit biased? We don't need to search anymore; we don't need to hunt for anything. I feel it is already like this. Why do you say only he is the one?' If that is the case, let me ask you: will you still need to go online to check for information, and only feel at ease when you see the answers written in black and white? Will you still hope that when you are on your deathbed, there will be someone by your side to help you with chanting, and will you search for more capable people to help you? No matter what, you must chant the Buddha's name yourself to enter the Western Pure Land. Can you guarantee that you will be able to chant the Buddha-name when the time comes? If you are critically ill, in a coma, or even suffering from dementia, and many people have their souls dragged to hell for punishment before they have even stopped breathing—can you guarantee that this will not happen to you? So, do you still need to search for some methods to ensure you have some protection, so you do not step onto the path of reincarnation again? If I ask this final question, how many people would dare to say, 'I do not need to search anymore; I do not need to prepare or manage these things for myself; I am certain I can enter the Western Pure Land'? There are many more things I could ask everyone, but having reached this point, who would dare to speak up?"
A Final Call to Practice
"Practitioner Su can freely travel back and forth to the Western Land. He can say, 'I do not need to prepare for this; whenever I close my eyes, if I want to return to the West, I return to the West.' Do you have this kind of skill? If you do, you can say it loudly, and I, Chin Kung, will praise you. Even I cannot do it. It is not that I am better than you, or that I have the ability to question everyone in this way, but I have this opportunity to raise this question, to let everyone think about which aspects of themselves need to be strengthened, and to quickly make up for their deficiencies. Perhaps you are the next person to realise your true nature. As long as this breath remains, there is still a chance. In ancient times, many monastics and ancestral masters reached the age of eighty and still had not found their true nature; they were still searching for it and hoping to find it. So, as long as this breath remains, it is never too late. Namo Amituofo."
You have a real, tangible example right before your eyes. What the Buddha’s teachings describe is not empty talk; the true nature really exists. It is truly possible to recover your true nature, to unleash your innate abilities to save yourself and alleviate the suffering of others, and it is truly possible to travel back and forth to the Western Pure Land. To encounter such a manifestation is truly no small feat. This is because you all have the Dharma affinity to meet Practitioner Su, who has now attained this achievement and manifests it for all to see. Right now, at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre, he works alongside Namo Amituofo to save the world and deliver sentient beings. He performs every single day because he sees that sentient beings are suffering too deeply. He possesses the ability and the to perform this deliverance. Not only that, but even in this physical form, he can manifest hundreds of to deliver sentient beings. Therefore, he can freely and at any moment—just by closing his eyes and hearing or chanting the Buddha-name—provide every sentient being with the opportunity to be saved. If this is not a Buddha, who could have such capability? I ask you all: do you have this skill? You could, but you must practise. You must practise diligently, and you must have a true spiritual friend and a teacher to guide you.
The Necessity of a True Spiritual Friend
This is also why I, Chin Kung, know the problems you all face, and why I repeatedly urge you to come to the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre to find Namo Amituofo. Once you find this place, find the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre, find Namo Amituofo, and meet those who have realised their true nature, you must practise steadily and fill in the gaps where you are lacking. As long as you realise your true nature, you will no longer need to search or wander, because all the answers will be clear at a glance. What else would you need to look for? You will be very clear on how to walk, how to act, and how to speak correctly. Furthermore, you will not deviate; you will not enter deviant paths or the demon path. You will walk the righteous path—what else would you need to search for? Moreover, Namo Amituofo has already descended and is right by your side. As long as you are willing to draw close to the Buddha, the Buddha is always by your side. As long as you have the Buddha in your heart, the Buddha is always by your side. That is how it is said, but your heart must be pure and good. Only when you have the Buddha in your heart can the Buddha appear by your side. Or perhaps you might say, 'Venerable Master…' or ask, 'Master, I do have Namo Amituofo in my heart, and I never let the Buddha-name leave my lips, so why does it seem like Namo Amituofo is so far away and not by my side?' To this, I, Chin Kung, ask you: 'With what kind of heart are you chanting the Buddha-name? What kind of heart has the Buddha within it? Is it a heart filled with the and ? Or is it a heart filled with afflictions, delusions, wandering thoughts, and discriminations? Is it a heart that cannot find peace, a heart that is anxious, or a heart suffering from old age, sickness, and pain? Or is it a heart filled with complaints and anger? These are all polluted hearts. If this heart is not pure or good, even if you think of the Buddha and chant the Buddha-name, you will not be able to be in sync with Namo Amituofo. The Buddha knows you are chanting and thinking of him, but he cannot help you. It is not that he does not want to help, but rather that given your state, even if he helped, you would not be able to receive it. Everything is a result of your own actions. If your heart is truly sincere and earnest, with your mind focused solely on Namo Amituofo, then the Buddha is right by your side, and he can help you. In this way, the question you just asked can be answered.'
The Boundless Nature of
Those who have truly realised their true nature not only no longer need to search, seek, or pursue, but they can also continuously give of what they possess and what they know. In fact, what those who have realised their true nature possess and know is boundless. This is a very miraculous thing, but it is the truth, and I, Chin Kung, know this. Although I have not realised my true nature myself, I can grasp a fraction of the state or circumstances of those who have. However, because I have not yet realised my true nature, I am unable to explain the real situation as thoroughly or clearly as they can. Much of what I know about the state of realising one's true nature comes from my previous extensive reading of the sutras—forgive me for saying this about myself, but I have at least read more sutras, treatises, and the than most. Therefore, I can speak a little about it. The state of those who have truly entered the Buddha-realm of realising one's true nature and attaining Buddhahood is 'ineffable, ineffable.' It cannot be expressed in any language or text because it cannot be fully explained. Therefore, it makes sense that the Chan school does not rely on words. Once you speak, you box it in; by not speaking, it remains infinite—that is the true meaning.
Crisis as a Turning Point
People always want to understand what is going on, so one is forced to speak and write, but the true situation is far more than that. For those who have realised their true nature, their heart is boundless, their vows are infinite, and their deliverance of sentient beings is never-ending. They do not feel tired; it is only the body that feels tired. Their hearts are steady, yet they are 'without a mind,' so they can face and handle any situation. There is no fixed answer, but no matter how they act or speak, they never deviate from the Truth or the righteous path, and they never violate the universal principle. Under this great premise, there can be any number of changes, so they can face, handle, and deal with any situation. This is called 'flowing naturally with the Dharma,' and it is called 'whatever one picks up becomes a Dharma.' Any sutra they hold in their hands, they can expound upon without prior preparation or searching through computer data. How wonderful that is! But you must put in the hard work to realise your true nature. There is no such thing as getting something for nothing in this world, and this is even more true for practice. One part of effort yields one part of harvest; you must walk the path steadily. If you encounter obstacles, pain, or anxiety, it must be that something has gone wrong in the process. A crisis is also a turning point. When a problem arises, it is precisely the time for you to change. As for whether you turn toward the righteous path or toward a deviant or evil path, that depends on your luck. If you can meet noble people, true spiritual friends, or the guidance of Buddhas and Bodhisattvas, then you have the opportunity to walk the righteous path. You will not deviate from the Truth or the righteous path, you will not depart from the universal principle, and you will continue to walk the path of seeking your true nature. You were merely stuck for a moment; once that obstacle is removed, you will continue forward without going astray.
The Advantage of the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre
If you feel pain at this time—whether it is the old age, sickness, or death of the body, or questions of the heart, or spiritual unease—you may want to search for a way to solve it. If you have no noble people to help you, no true spiritual friend to guide you, or if your own heart is drifting further and further away from the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas, then of course, in this age of the Dharma’s decline where demonic beings are everywhere, you might walk into deviant paths or evil ways. If you walk onto a dangerous path, you are far from your true nature and far from attaining Buddhahood; you might even end up becoming a demon. Looking at it this way, this is not an impossible scenario. As long as our thoughts are not true and are selfish, we may attract karma to manifest, attract , attract attached spirits into our bodies, or even attract beings from the Demon Realm to enter our bodies to interfere with and obstruct us. If you have no one to care for you or remind you at such a time, you could truly end up on a deviant path.
Therefore, the fourfold assembly of the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre is truly fortunate. Whenever there is any deviation, you have the Buddha’s words from Namo Amituofo to remind you, the teachings of Teacher Practitioner Xia Lianju, and Practitioner Su—Practitioner Su Fo—who watches over everyone twenty-four hours a day, constantly admonishing everyone. Therefore, on this path of seeking your true nature, you possess far greater advantages than others. If you do not realise your true nature, it would truly be a great pity!
Once you realise your true nature and attain Buddhahood, you no longer need to search or seek; you no longer need to look for a solution. Such a wonderful thing can be achieved at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre. Here, I, Chin Kung, once again appeal to all who do not wish to continue searching or wandering: come to the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre, and you will have the opportunity to stop searching and recover our long-lost true nature, Buddha-nature, and our cool, free selves. Together with Namo Amituofo, with the same heart, the same vows, and the same actions, we shall advance on the great path of self-deliverance, delivering others, saving ourselves, saving others, saving the world, and attaining rebirth in the Western Pure Land.
Very well, I, Chin Kung, shall stop here for today. I am grateful for the compassion of the Buddha.
Namo Amituofo.
Shi Chin Kung, with palms joined.
At the of the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre, Australia.
