The Truth Behind the Mask: An Interview with Ma Yun

This is a record of an interview with Ma Yun, who sought deliverance at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre in Australia. He reflects on the nature of spiritual attachment and the loss of autonomy over one's own body. This session was recorded by the chief writer, Shi Fa Jing, on June 7, 2018.

Venerable Fa Jing: "Please, Mr. Ma Yun, Namo Amituofo."

Ma Yun speaks: "Namo Amituofo. In my daily life, I am usually sitting in a car, scrolling through my phone. I rarely look out the window at the scenery passing by. Even when I do, all I see is the endless flow of people, which never seemed particularly remarkable. But today, I have truly had my horizons broadened. I am deeply grateful to the Practitioner for their dedication. Every lesson provided here is a vivid reflection of the reality of our lives. These common people, objects, and events we encounter every day have unexpectedly become the most profound teaching materials. I have never had such an awakening before; I have truly benefited immensely.

A World of Unseen Strangers

Today, I made a conscious effort to stop and observe the pedestrians before me. This is a bustling street, filled with a constant stream of people. Everyone is dressed in the latest fashions, yet no one truly sees anyone else. They are all locked away in their own private worlds. Some wear headphones, lost in the music, as if completely severed from the world outside. Others walk with hollow, vacant eyes, moving forward as if they cannot see the environment around them at all. And the majority are simply scrolling through their phones, only glancing up briefly to check the path before plunging back into their screens. This is the superficial appearance I have always seen. But today, the Practitioner asked us to look beyond these shallow exteriors. I stood there with Chairman Xi and Premier Li, observing this crowd with intense focus.

Oh, heavens! I saw it. Every single human body is like a massive container. In this seemingly ordinary intersection, beyond the human world, there are countless spirits present. These spirits are weaving in and out of the crowd on this very street. I witnessed with my own eyes a single human body being swarmed by a vast multitude of spirits in just a split second. I looked closer to understand exactly what was happening. It turned out that the person was scrolling through their phone, watching a horror video. When the video reached a certain climax, the person became emotionally agitated, their feelings fluctuating with the plot. At that exact moment, spirits who shared that same emotional state—snap!—were instantly sucked into their body. Yet, the person felt absolutely nothing.

The Body as a Vessel for Spirits

I watched as their body followed the shifts in their emotions—one moment happy, the next moment sad. These spirits, arriving from all directions, can freely enter a person's body as long as their thoughts, emotions, or energy fields are in alignment. They pass through, back and forth. Some linger in the brain, some in the eyes, others on the shoulders or back. Their body is like a vast ocean, with layers upon layers of spirits piled up inside. I asked Chairman Xi, who was standing next to me, if he could see it. He said yes, he saw it too. It is absolutely terrifying! This is a truth about our lives that we never knew. It turns out that we have no way to master our own bodies. As long as we have emotions or thoughts, spirits outside our bodies can come and go as they please.

I took a serious look inside my own body. Beyond my own karmic creditors, the number of spirits that have entered from the outside is simply uncountable. They can change my state at any moment. One second I am happy, the next I am sad. When I am racking my brains over business, workaholic spirits begin to take control for me. When I feel low, many female spirits are inside my body weeping. When I am happy, many little children are playing joyfully within me. My moods are constantly changing according to the manipulation of these spirits. It has never been the true 'Ma Yun' acting. I am the consciousness of Ma Yun, yet I am unable to make any changes to my own physical body because there are far too many spirits controlling it. With the strength of my own soul alone, I am completely unable to compete with them.

The Illusion of Personal Autonomy

Furthermore, because the thoughts in my head never cease, the spirits accumulating inside my body only continue to grow. This body, which looks like it has little flesh, can hold an amount of spirits that would not be an exaggeration to describe as being as vast as four great oceans. Spirits have no physical form; you could fit the spirits of an entire mountain into a single finger. The level of activity inside the body, if one were to truly investigate it, is absolutely staggering! Today's harvest has allowed me to see that the physical body truly cannot be mastered by oneself. This world is entirely a place governed and manipulated by others. No one is truly powerful, unless they are like the Practitioner—an awakened being who is not subject to spiritual attachment. I also hope to learn these skills from the Practitioner. Having passed the age of fifty, I do not have much time left to struggle. I must wake up quickly! My body, I am in desperate need of your help. Can you hear me?

Namo Amituofo."