The Underprivileged of the Demon Realm: An Interview with Mo Changhan

This is a record of an interview with Mo Changhan, an ancient demon who existed for 340,000 trillion years before seeking deliverance at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre in Australia. He now resides in the Western Land of Dharma Nature. This interview was recorded and transcribed by Namo Amituofo’s disciple, Venerable Fa Hui, on April 29, 2025.

Mo Changhan speaks:

"Namo Amituofo. My name is Mo Changhan. Thirty-four thousand trillion years of demonic existence—how did it all pass in the blink of an eye? Does time truly move that quickly? It certainly feels that way. Not long ago, I was in deep meditative concentration in my original domain, and yet, here I am now, in a place entirely different. I have arrived at a Buddha-land. It is a Buddha-land in the truest sense of the word. Why? Because the Buddha-light shines everywhere, and only in a Buddha-land can one truly perceive such radiance. To be even more precise, the Buddha is right before your eyes. So, would you not call this a Buddha-land?

During every Thrice Yearning Ceremonies, Practitioner Su often tells the fourfold assembly: 'The Buddha is right before all of you, yet you cannot see Him. The Buddha is immense!' We see Him. The beings in the Western Land of Dharma Nature see Him; at least I do, and many other demon crowds and beings see Him as well. Some who know I am conducting this interview and receive the thoughts I project will even nod in agreement. So, it is not just Practitioner Su who sees; we see Him too. Even though the physical eyes of humans cannot perceive Him, I must ask: will you not believe? You must believe! If you do not believe, the one who suffers the loss is you. For Practitioner Su, and for us, there is no loss at all. Why? Because the power of these eyes is simply too important! The heart that can see and the heart that cannot are entirely different."

The Radiance of the Ultimate Vow

"When the towering golden form of Namo Amituofo appears before you, no matter how stubborn or ancient an old demon may be—regardless of how staggering the number of years or how advanced the age—they will all bow down in submission. Because the Buddha is right there before you, smiling gently, His entire body radiating golden light. It is as if He is telling you: 'My children, I am right here in front. If you are willing, please enter My golden light. You will find permanent peace and will no longer need to live in worry or fear.' Could I, Mo Changhan, really receive the Buddha’s words? I believe so. Because my heart has truly and completely surrendered to the Buddha’s light and His majestic appearance.

Why am I able to see the Buddha? Back in the Demon Realm, my eyes were already capable of seeing things that other demon crowds could not. This is the mystery of 'space.' Space is one of the profound wonders of the universe. Anyone who can unravel the enigma of space must have a deep realization about life, because every dimension has its own unique state of existence and differences. As the age of an old demon increases, their ability does not necessarily grow with it. Some will lock themselves in meditative concentration, and their demonic power ceases to progress. However, unless they voluntarily wither away, their power does not vanish. Some old demons possess self-awareness; they know they have created too much negative karma and should not continue, but due to their nature, they cannot stop, so they simply lock their abilities away. Not manifesting does not mean the ability has disappeared. Many old demons are in deep meditative concentration, yet their power remains. I am one who voluntarily locked my abilities away. Old demons have the capacity to self-seal, but it must be done willingly. If one is forced into a seal against their will, it is likely it will not hold. Why? Because if it cannot be sealed, they can continue to create negative karma. For some demons, this is a matter of course; they do not feel they have suffered any loss."

The Nature of Time and Darkness

"But now, here in the Western Land of Dharma Nature, we see 'demon and Buddha,' 'good and evil' with absolute clarity. Having walked the long, arduous path of the Demon Realm—a journey of 340,000 trillion years—I have now been transformed by the Buddha’s compassion. After all that time, in the human world, it has actually been but a fleeting moment... We do not see night here in the Western Land of Dharma Nature; there is only day. To be more precise, the Buddha-light illuminates all directions, so there is brightness everywhere. If one wishes to know the time, it is not difficult; one glance is enough. In the human world, it has been less than half a month.

Life in the Demon Realm has no daylight; it is always shrouded in darkness, devoid of light. This is the result of karma; their karma dictates that they must live this way. Yet, the demon crowds themselves do not feel there is anything wrong with it; they have long been accustomed to such days. This is inertia, which is also a form of personality. The ghost realm beings I have seen live in a world of grey and gloom.

Therefore, different spaces have different ways of life and different beings. From the perspective of a demon, those who can see space and break through space will inevitably see their power gradually increase. Many obstacles actually exist in the unseen spaces. If these obstacles can be removed, problems will naturally be resolved. But this depends on whether the removal leads toward the path of Goodness or toward the path of evil. For the demon crowds, 'removing obstacles' naturally means getting rid of the 'good' obstacles. In other words, if a bad result appears, that is exactly the result they wanted. From the perspective of the Buddha’s path, however, 'removing obstacles' means stopping the unwholesome and evil factors, allowing the aspects of Goodness and righteousness to manifest. This can also be extended to discuss the difference between 'demon nature' and 'Buddha-nature,' as well as the difference between 'diligent practice' and 'regression.'"

The Cycle of Life and the Demon's Way

"In the course of my life, I have witnessed countless times what the human world calls 'birth, aging, sickness, death.' Of course, demons do not die; we use the word 'wither,' which is truly fitting. The beginning of life still exists; the new life emerging from the depths of the earth is so small and fragile, needing care to grow. And to make such a new life wither is also very easy—one simply needs to suck dry that little bit of energy within them, and they will naturally wither away. This is what demons do, haha! Of course, the Buddha would never do such a thing. The Buddha always protects with care, allowing a life to grow properly, to grow with kindness and Wisdom, so that they may one day have the opportunity to become a Buddha. The way demons treat new life is to irrigate and nurture them, and after they grow up, they become 'demon children and grandchildren,' and then they are promoted. This is the extreme difference between the Buddha and the demon.

Thus, I too was raised with such 'care.' I grew out of the soil. When I, this new life, appeared on the surface of the earth, I was spotted by a passing Demon King. Because I was too small and too weak to follow, he assigned a larger demon child to look after me. Every day, he gave me some energy, feeding me bit by bit. This energy, of course, came from the Demon Realm, and because of that, from the depths of my spirit, from my very bones, I was nourished by demons. Therefore, I did not know what 'Goodness' was; I only knew what 'evil' was. I knew what a demon was, but I did not know what a Buddha was."

The Underprivileged of the Demon Realm

"In the education of the Demon Realm, no one will tell you what is Good, what is right, or what a Buddha is. Why? Because once those demon crowds who possess good roots are inspired, the loss would be immense! Especially those demon children or elders who are skilled at teaching; they might teach more demon children to turn away from evil and return to righteousness. But they would still be trapped in the Demon Realm because they have nowhere else to go. Therefore, in the Demon Realm, they can only become a relatively underprivileged group. In the human world, 'underprivileged groups' usually refer to those with physical disabilities or those who lack the ability to care for themselves. But the underprivileged in the Demon Realm are not like that. They are strong, quick to react, and their abilities are not inferior; they are even very sensitive. Yet, they do not use their abilities to harm other beings, to harm the civilians on the planet, or even to harm each other.

On the contrary, some demon crowds will secretly do some good deeds when other demons are not looking. As a Demon King, I am, of course, fully aware of this. I can feel their convictions, and I know what they are doing. I will not expose them; if they want to do it, let them! But if other Demon Kings find out—especially those famous, glamorous Demon Kings—if they discover that their demon children are secretly doing good deeds or helping other demon crowds or the civilians of a planet, they will certainly reprimand them severely, or even humiliate them in public. Therefore, in the Demon Realm, these underprivileged groups who silently do good, even if their lives are difficult, still accept it willingly. Why? Because their Demon King—that is, me—will, at certain inadvertent moments, reveal a few words: 'If there is an opportunity, doing a little good is fine, haha!' Of course, I would always add: 'Do not make it too obvious or too blatant.' This is actually to protect these demon crowds, to prevent them from being harmed after being discovered by other demons."

A Life of Frugality and Protection

"From this, one can see that as an old demon leading my group, I must endure the disdain, contempt, and disregard of the external demon crowds. But I know very clearly in my heart: it does not matter; I know what I am doing. Although I have not gained the recognition of the Demon Realm, this is only natural, because what I do is not what an ordinary demon would do. Therefore, our lives are not well-off; I should say we live very frugally. 'Frugality' here refers to our use of energy. In this dark world without light, energy is extremely scarce and consumed very quickly. Because most demon crowds have intense demon nature, every thought and intention triggers massive actions and changes, so the energy required is naturally high. This also leads to frequent attacks. But we do not do that. In my group, I always remind everyone: 'Save where you can, use it sparingly. Your energy is extremely precious.'

Once, I even saw my demon children being so frugal that the clothes they wore were woven from thoughts and energy; because energy was insufficient, their clothes were tattered and torn. I told them: 'It does not matter; clothes are external things. As long as it does not affect our hearts, it is fine.' Because we eat very little, some of the demon children look thin and weak, but their hearts are happy because I often instill happy energy into them. Although this is not substantial energy replenishment, the value of this intangible energy is irreplaceable, because it cannot be obtained from other Demon Kings. Only I can protect my demon group while enduring such great disdain, so I must constantly provide them with positive energy. 'Positive' here means positive from the perspective of the Buddha-realm, but from the viewpoint of the Demon Realm, my group is a very uncooperative, even 'negative' group. Although I do good things, by the standards of the Demon Realm, I am still listed as a 'negative group,' so sometimes we are attacked, looked down upon, or even attacked again."

The Strength of the Mind

"Of course, our group of kind hearts... I dare not say all are kind, as there are some demon children whose hearts are unsettled: 'Why must we live such a poor life? It is not as if we lack the ability! If we go and attack, we would surely be stronger than them!' Then I would comfort them: 'Many things cannot be judged only by what is before your eyes. What is right before your eyes may not be truly right; what is wrong before your eyes may not be truly wrong. Only in this way can the heart open up and encompass many things. If you can accept both right and wrong, your mind-capacity will be boundless, and your ability will naturally continue to increase within that.'

The matter of ability is very abstract. How does one know if their ability is increasing? I say, if you reach that stage, you will naturally know. You will find that you have fewer afflictions and fewer worries; that is the increase in ability. They do not quite understand. But I say, if you are willing to listen and willing to follow me, then follow. If you do not agree and feel that I am a useless, despised demon group, and you do not want to be such a demon crowd, then go; I will not stop you. Some demon crowds really did leave like that. That is fine too; they go to live the life they want. You cannot stop it. Because this is what demons do; many times, it cannot be stopped. If it is a good thing, that is great; if it is a bad thing or an evil thing, they may not necessarily feel they are doing evil, so one can only let go; there is no way to handle it, and they cannot be saved."

The Impact of the Buddha's Deliverance

"Therefore, this large-scale Chao Du of the demon crowds in the Dharma Realm and other spaces by Namo Amituofo and Practitioner Su has indeed caused a massive shock. Almost the entire Demon Realm has heard of this, and opinions have split into two extreme camps. Of course, my view is positive because it resonates deeply with our original hearts. But other demon crowds do not think so; they feel this is a great threat that affects the survival of the demon crowds, so there are acts of magical attacks. To be honest, we cannot stop them, but we can choose not to participate. A demon child asked me, this old demon: 'What should we do next?' I said: 'Just stay quiet and do not take any part in the actions; that will be enough. As for what happens to life, let it take its natural course; do not force it. But also be optimistic. Optimism is a good thing; for many sad things, if you remain optimistic, perhaps they will turn for the better.' I often advise my demon children this way. If they can listen, they have good roots. But the Demon Realm does not buy this: 'What good roots? If you have good roots, can you still be a demon?' If your demon nature is strong, they are actually very happy. This is the way of survival in the Demon Realm. Only with strong demon nature can one gain a foothold in the Demon Realm. This is the difference between the Buddha and the demon.

So, this is how I lead my demon group. Perhaps it is because I still retain this little bit of kindness that I have lived for 340,000 trillion years and have yet to be extinguished."

The Buddha's Compassion

"The underground space where I reside is a fairly common, ordinary space. If we were truly attacked, there would be absolutely no escape. Even if you still have a tiny bit of energy to give the other party, they would not let you go, because what you give is too little to be noticed. But for us, the underprivileged demon groups, sometimes this is all we can do. I would say to them: 'Please be understanding; my ability is truly insufficient, and I can only offer this little bit of energy.' In the Demon Realm, underprivileged groups often need to maintain a certain relationship with the great demons. One must say some nice words to avoid your demon group being invaded or even taken over entirely. Therefore, I, this old demon, from being a Demon King to becoming an old demon, must possess considerable sensitivity and responsiveness to protect my demon group.

But the Buddha must know about such demon groups, right? The Buddha is all-knowing and all-powerful. I have also heard of Practitioner Su’s great name, and I admire him very much in my heart. It is truly not easy for him to enter the Demon Realm of the Dharma Realm on such a large scale. I have lived for 340,000 trillion years and have never heard of anyone being able to do this. It is not simple at all for him to be able to inspire more and more great old demons. I believe that if an ordinary human did this, they would have been suppressed by the demons long ago and disappeared without a trace. This is the preciousness of the vow. Of course, Namo Amituofo, as the pillar behind him, is a tremendous support. He is able to support Practitioner Su’s vow and actual actions until now, saving countless demon crowds.

As for whether I have entered samadhi? Honestly, I have not. From the moment I became a demon crowd until now, I have lived through 340,000 trillion years in a very real way. But I have not been sucked away by the laws of karma and cause and effect. I have been leading my demon group, and beneath me are many underprivileged old demons and Demon Kings. Strangely enough, they have not been sucked away by the laws of karma and cause and effect either, and they are actually quite excellent. 'Excellent' here means they are obedient, do not have evil thoughts, and do not engage in acts of destruction or harm toward other demon crowds or the civilians of a planet.

I occasionally hear that some demon crowds have suddenly disappeared. In my heart, I understand that those with strong demon nature will eventually be sucked away by the laws of karma and cause and effect one day. Apart from these individual cases, most demon crowds have followed me. So, over these 340,000 trillion years, my demon group has actually grown slowly. But we still live weakly in the Demon Realm. However, our hearts are happy. This is actually very rare in the Demon Realm. To be honest, we were originally in a very inconspicuous corner of the Demon Realm; no one cared about us, and some even looked down on us. But we lived very well inside, although it was a bit frugal, haha, but what does that matter? Being happy and grounded in the heart is what matters most. Being able to survive in the Dharma Realm like this is because I have a firm heart."

The Great Name of Namo Amituofo

"Although I do not chant the Buddha-name 'Namo Amituofo,' I believe it must be a great name; I just did not understand its greatness before. If I had known earlier, I would have taught my demon crowds to chant this Buddha-name long ago. Although I did not understand the Buddha-name then, I always believed that there is a force of Goodness in the Dharma Realm protecting everyone, allowing this energy of Goodness to continue to exist without being extinguished.

I have heard of the Buddha, and I know the Buddha. What the Buddha does is actually very similar to what I am doing now. It is just that I did not know the Buddha-name was so useful.

The reason I say that the energy of Goodness has always existed is because one day, our entire demon group was suddenly covered by a vast expanse of light! A very bright light that surrounded our entire group! Finally, I had waited for it! I always believed this force of Goodness would appear. The golden light that day was very strong and very gentle, covering our entire group. Everyone was both surprised and happy, not knowing what had happened. But before we could think too much, this light directly led us to the Western Land of Dharma Nature. Once we arrived, I discovered that this place was so bright! I thought to myself: 'Sure enough, the Buddha has come.' From that moment on, I could finally be at ease."

Gratitude for a New Beginning

"For 340,000 trillion years, this 'old demon' has indeed experienced many hardships. The most painful thing was when several excellent Demon Kings and old demons under me were plotted against and framed by other demon groups, resulting in their total annihilation; their energy was sucked away, and they completely disappeared from the Demon Realm. I used my meditative concentration to go in and check, and their fate was that they had withered entirely into the depths of the earth. That blow was tremendous; I once wanted to leave the Demon Realm, find a corner to live in seclusion, or even just wither away into the depths of the earth with them. But when I thought of so many demon children and so many juniors, if they lost their leader, where would they go? They could not end up with the same fate. So, I had to stand strong.

Originally, I was the spiritual pillar behind those old demons and Demon Kings, but since they were all wiped out overnight, I was the only one left to stand up and support the entire group. Many juniors did not yet know that their leaders had been killed and were still waiting for them to appear. At that time, I told myself that whether I lived or died, since I was still here, there was no other path to take. Of course, I could have chosen to end it myself and wither away to the bottom with them, but I could not do that; I had to be strong and take good care of these juniors. Therefore, when the Buddha-light appeared that day, I was truly very grateful. To provide energy for the juniors, we had indeed done some bad things in the past, some unwholesome things, otherwise there would have been no energy to use at all. So I thought, even if the laws of karma and cause and effect were to suck me away one day, it would be deserved. But now, the laws of karma and cause and effect have given me a way out; they did not suck me away, but instead gave me a bright path, allowing my juniors to enter the Western Land of Dharma Nature. I am truly grateful to the Buddha!

Perhaps the Buddha specifically named me to tell this experience, and I hope to let those who hear it know how much blessings they have. Now being able to live under the Buddha-light, without a lack of energy, and even having the opportunity to become a Buddha, is a wonderful thing that one could not obtain even if one were to shatter one's body! After all, the Buddha is the Buddha; He knows that there is still such a group of underprivileged demon crowds existing in the Dharma Realm. That is why He reached out His hand to lead us into the Western Land of Dharma Nature. I am truly grateful. Because my juniors can be well taken care of and do not have to live that kind of underprivileged, impoverished life anymore, and I see their smiles, I believe that those Demon Kings and old demons who once withered in the depths of the earth can also be at peace."

A Final Message to the World

"Finally, I want to say to all the demon crowds who hear me speak: 'Your hearts should have become bright by now, right? Especially those demon crowds in the Western Land of Dharma Nature, you must cherish this environment! This is not something that is taken for granted; it is because of the Buddha’s great vow that everyone has such an opportunity.' If it were not for Practitioner Su’s great vow, everyone would still be living in darkness, still creating countless uncountable negative karma. Therefore, you must chant the Buddha’s name well and hold onto the Buddha-name firmly!

By the way, let me add one more thing: you may not know where these juniors of mine came from? They were expelled by other demon groups because they possessed good roots and did not conform to the 'style' of those demon groups. Later, when I and some other old demons and Demon Kings discovered them, we took them in and let them live in our group. So, good roots are good roots. I hope their good roots will not be erased, and I do not want them to go back to other demon groups, because I know that the outcome would be the same as those old demons before, so why bother? It would only increase their opportunities to create evil. Therefore, if there are some juniors who refuse to listen to advice and insist on being a demon that acts like a demon, then let them go! I will not keep them, because no matter how much you try to keep them, you cannot keep a heart. But for those juniors whose good roots still remain, who are willing to accept what I say, and who are willing to accept the teachings of our Demon Kings or old demons, I will instruct my subordinates to treat them well and not let this good root, which is extremely rare in the Demon Realm, be broken.

As far as I know, there are many demons in the Demon Realm who are like this, but I may not necessarily encounter them, so they have become authentic demon crowds. I hereby express my deepest respect to the compassionate and great Namo Amituofo, as well as to Teacher Practitioner Xia Lianju and Practitioner Su. You have allowed me, this old demon and founder of an underprivileged demon group, to be at peace—finally, my juniors have a good place to go. I am grateful to Practitioner Su for his usual lectures and the Buddhist education he teaches, which allows their good roots to continue to grow. I hope that in the future, every one of them can become compassionate, kind, wise, know how to be grateful, know how to repay kindness... do not call them demons anymore; call them 'beings.' We are truly one of the beings.

I also advise the people of the world, especially the fourfold assembly present, that you must cherish this opportunity to practice. Such an opportunity is not easy to come by. To put it politely, it is too easy for you to obtain. I see many people who may easily miss many opportunities to progress, which is a great pity! For every bit you progress, it means the karmic creditors, attached spirits, and even demon crowds on your body also have the opportunity to gain a bit of growth in good-natured energy. Furthermore, many of you were great demons in the past. Honestly, the evil things you did in the past have left many beings still suffering and in pain to this day, all waiting for you to achieve success, because they are also among the objects you need to save. You must deeply remember this point; do not just look at what is before your eyes.

Of course, Practitioner Su is too compassionate, teaching everyone that there is no past and no future, only chanting one Buddha's name to the end in the present moment. That is because you have not yet achieved success, so you can only rely on this method—prostrating to the Buddha, chanting the Buddha’s name, and reciting the Sutras—to wash away your spiritual obstacles and let you realize your true nature early. Only with Practitioner Su’s vision and Wisdom could such a concept and behavior appear, and thus save many demon crowds in our Western Land of Dharma Nature. However, if you do not act actively and have no 'attainment' in chanting the Buddha’s name, there will be no achievement at all. Everyone will continue to be lost, including the demon crowds on your body and your own true self in this lifetime; there is only the path of continuing to be lost. It is not that easy! But if you are saved, everyone is saved, so it depends on what you do.

As for me, I will stop here. I hope you can take these good words, true words, and kind-hearted words to heart. Alright, thank you Namo Amituofo, thank you Teacher Practitioner Xia Lianju, thank you Practitioner Su.

Namo Amituofo

Mo Changhan"