This is a record of an interview with the spirit of Venerable Master Chin Kung, who sought deliverance through the Hsiang Kuang Buddhist Centre and now resides in the . This interview was recorded by the chief writer, Venerable HaiZe, on September 14, 2022.
Venerable Master Chin Kung speaks:
". Today, the topic Namo Amituofo has set for me is 'Purification and Pollution.' It is truly remarkable—Namo Amituofo is the reason why Buddhas manifest in this world, is it not? There is a saying that 'if one's emotions are not heavy, one will not fall into the worldly realm.' Most Buddhist practitioners have heard this, or at least find it familiar. The sutras also speak of the 'Five Turbidities and Evil World.' Shakyamuni Buddha was constantly pointing this out to us: we live in a world filled with emotional pollution and turbidity.
The 'Five Turbidities' is not just about the word 'turbid.' It is also about 'evil'—the evil of the five pains and five burnings. This shows us just how polluted our world truly is! The worldly realm is filled with emotions, and emotions are a form of pollution—a massive dyeing vat! We often use the words 'turbid' and 'polluted' together, as turbidity is a part of pollution, and the scope of this pollution is vast.
The Five Turbidities and the Path to Clarity
When we speak of the 'Five Turbidities,' the sutras clearly define them: the turbidity of the kalpa, the turbidity of views, the turbidity of afflictions, the turbidity of sentient beings, and the turbidity of life. I used to know these terms by heart, but since arriving here in the Western -Nature Land, I have set these names aside. It is not that I have discarded them entirely—after all, they were deeply rooted in my —but I simply do not dwell on them anymore. Aside from these interviews, I do not speak of them, I do not memorise them, and I do not look at the texts. I have let them go. In short, it is all just 'turbidity' and 'pollution.' There is no need to keep these terms or so many words in one's mind. At this moment, I truly feel much lighter.
People are accustomed to looking at words because they are used to what each word represents. They obsess over what this word means, what that word implies, and how to express these meanings. All of this is merely discrimination and attachment. Do discrimination and attachment exist? Does the true nature contain discrimination and attachment? They exist among sentient beings, and the heavier one's discrimination and attachment, the heavier one's and the greater one's suffering. Those who have realised their true nature have no discrimination or attachment. However, to teach sentient beings, they may manifest according to the needs of the person, the situation, and the conditions, yet their heart remains unmoved.
The Infinite Nature of
Everything is contained within the true nature; there is nothing that is not included. The meanings found in words are in the true nature; the meanings not found in words are also in the true nature. The meanings within the form of language are in the true nature; the meanings outside the form of language are also in the true nature. So, do you really need to memorise these terms? Wouldn't it be better to simply find your way back to your true nature?
Indeed, this is why the Chan school does not rely on written words. It points directly to the core, to the original face one had before one's parents were born. This is the goal of every practitioner. Yet, this original face has been polluted—severely polluted. It must undergo purification, and then more purification, until not a single trace of pollution remains. That is the moment of realising one's true nature. In this world filled with emotional pollution and the Five Turbidities, realising one's true nature is not easy. Those who do are rare treasures. It is no wonder that Namo Amituofo resides at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre, for that is where Practitioner Su, who has realised her true nature, resides.
The Necessity of Guidance
However, most of you have not yet realised your true nature. Without that realisation, you do not possess the 'everything' I just spoke of. Therefore, you still require concrete words, sounds heard by the ears, and images seen by the eyes to understand the current situation and what is being expressed. Although this is like framing a meaning within a box, it provides a necessary guide, giving people a common direction for their practice.
It is no wonder Practitioner Su says that she does not need to prepare for her Dharma talks; she can speak naturally at any moment. This is the true nature. It is wonderful, is it not? Isn't the purpose of learning Buddhism to realise one's true nature? The term 'realising one's true nature' simply means seeing the true nature. There is value in having words; now that I have said this, you understand what I mean. You see, it might seem as if I have strayed from the topic, but I have not! I have only now discovered how brilliant Namo Amituofo is. No matter how I speak, I cannot escape this scope. Because I mentioned the true nature, and isn't realising the true nature the very goal of our purification? Everything eventually returns to this central axis.
The Importance of Cause and Effect
Is realising one's true nature important? It is vital! The purpose of learning Buddhism is to understand the universal principle, the reality of the universe, and the truth of facts, so that we may walk the path of truth and righteousness. In fact, do these not all reside within the true nature? This includes the laws of karma and cause and effect, which are extremely important. To return to the true nature, a necessary process is purification. Without purification, it is impossible to recover the true nature.
The true nature is inherently possessed by every sentient being, but because of ignorance, we have been reincarnated throughout many lives, becoming polluted and covering the true nature. Our ancestral masters have constantly taught us and reminded us of this, and the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas have demonstrated this through their actions. Once polluted, one must undergo purification to clear away these stains. This clearing must be done bit by bit. There are many methods. Regardless of the school, all Buddhism aims to help us return to the true nature.
The Preciousness of the Pure Land Dharma Gate
The schools were categorised by later generations; Shakyamuni Buddha did not label them as such. This includes the Pure Land Dharma Gate. This is a very important concept. Shakyamuni Buddha mentioned that the Western Pure Land is a Buddha-land, but he did not use the term 'Pure Land School.' Everyone should understand that this is the of the ancestral masters, helping later students to focus and find their true nature within their limited lives based on their affinities and . Each school is a path, a method for the learner to follow, allowing them to return to the true nature in the shortest possible time.
Mahayana Buddhism is the path to Buddhahood for Bodhisattvas, while the two-vehicle path is the path of self-liberation for Sound-Hearers and Pratyekabuddhas. The One Vehicle Buddhism is the path to Buddhahood. All the teachings of the Buddha are meant to help sentient beings attain Buddhahood, and the Pure Land Dharma Gate is a One Vehicle path. Now you know how precious the Pure Land is, do you not? Do not underestimate this six-character name, 'Namo Amituofo.' It can lead you into the Western Pure Land and allow you to attain Buddhahood! Once you believe, it depends on how you chant, how you learn, how you experience it, and your vows and actions. I mention these important concepts to reinforce them during this interview. In truth, each concept could be expanded upon, but within our limited time, we will touch upon them briefly.
The Reality of Demon Nature
To return to the point, the Mahayana path is meant to help everyone continuously remove defilements and attain purity, so that they may see the true nature. Regardless of what you have done in your past lives—whether you were good, evil, a demon, extremely evil, extremely good, or even a demon—do not say that you are not a demon. As long as you have selfish thoughts, acting for yourself rather than for sentient beings, these are all forms of pollution. These are all objects that demons can control; the only difference is the depth of the pollution.
I have mentioned demons in previous interviews. Why did I not emphasise this as much when I was alive and giving lectures? It is because I did not have a deep understanding of demon nature or the beings in the demon realms. Now, here in the Western Dharma-Nature Land, I see many demon crowds being subdued and brought into the Western Dharma-Nature Land every day. I have also heard the testimonies of these demon beings, so I understand them better than before. If we possess demon nature, we are part of the demon crowds. Therefore, having demon nature is pollution. Who dares to say they are free from pollution?
The Power of Realisation
If you have the personality of the demon realm, that is pollution. To be free from pollution, you must purify yourself and change your personality. But even with purification, unless you have realised your true nature and attained Buddhahood—reaching a state of pure goodness and pure purity—you cannot say you are not a demon. Although you are not a demon, you understand demons thoroughly. This is why Practitioner Su, in cooperation with Namo Amituofo, can subdue so many demon crowds.
The demon crowds are the most difficult to transform, yet they are being subdued in uncountable numbers. It is truly breathtaking, yet it leaves one wondering: what kind of ability makes this possible? Because you cannot do it yourself, you have this question. After observing and hearing about this for some time, I can now tell you: it is because of the realisation of the true nature!
Realising the true nature means knowing everything and being able to do everything. Prajna wisdom is clear before one. Is this not what I have often reminded you of? This shows how important realising the true nature is. One of its benefits, as you can see, is the ability to subdue so many demon crowds. This is not something an ordinary person who has realised their true nature can do. Wait, that is not correct. One who has realised their true nature cannot have discrimination. The true nature is completely free of discrimination. As long as you have discrimination, you have not realised your true nature. However, those who have realised their true nature can act according to conditions to teach sentient beings, while their heart remains unmoved. It depends on how the person who has realised their true nature applies this.
Equality in the Dharma
Is it not better to have no discrimination? Whether it is a Demon King, a demon son, or a demon grandson, they are all treated equally. No one will say who is higher or lower, and everyone is truly convinced, are they not? I have observed Practitioner Su; she does not say, 'These are Demon Kings entering this area of the Western Dharma-Nature Land, those are demon sons entering that area, and you demon grandsons go to another area.' Does Practitioner Su do that? No! Once she receives the memorial tablet, she chants, and then says: 'The demon crowds have arrived—Demon Kings, sons, and grandsons...' and with the ringing of the chime, everyone enters the Western Dharma-Nature Land together. This is the equality of the Buddha-nature. She does not discriminate, which is why every demon being is truly convinced. Ordinary people who have not realised their true nature, however, are the ones who develop discriminatory minds and lose this sense of equality.
When we chant Namo Amituofo while circling the Earth, it is not said that the Demon King chants better, so he goes first. Everyone, including the demon sons and grandsons, goes together. Practitioner Su does not say, 'The Demon King will go this time, and the sons and grandsons will wait for the next turn. You must practice well, and when you can chant the Buddha-name accurately, you can join the others.' She does not do that. She invites everyone to chant together. This elevates everyone equally without distinction. Who would not be convinced? The Demon Kings cannot develop arrogance because they are not treated as special because they are 'kings,' and the demon sons and grandsons do not feel inferior. These mindsets do not arise. Under the guidance of a Buddha or one who has realised their true nature, everyone's heart becomes level.
The State of a Level Heart
This 'level' does not mean that I was uneven and then became level; it means that the thought of being uneven never even arises. Is this not wonderful? It is truly wonderful! But you must have this ability. This ability is relative to those who have not realised their true nature or have not purified themselves to that degree. For those who have realised their true nature, this is not an 'ability'—it is simply how things are; it is very natural. Just as healthy people find breathing natural, while it may not be so for those with respiratory diseases. This is the same principle as 'giving rise to all roots of goodness and achieving the fruit of .' It does not mean that when you have a bad or evil thought, you quickly stop it and turn it into a good thought. It means that the bad or evil thought does not even have a root; it never manifests. Naturally, only good and wholesome thoughts arise. This is what it means to give rise to all roots of goodness. Of course, this requires practice. Without practice, how can one have such skills? Those who have realised their true nature and attained Buddhahood also achieved it through practice.
The Rarity of True Spiritual Friends
In fact, many who have realised their true nature and attained Buddhahood are 'returners'—those who have already attained Buddhahood in past lives and have returned through the power of their vows! Especially in this age of the Dharma’s decline, realising one's true nature and attaining Buddhahood is much more difficult than in the age of the True Dharma or the age of the Semblance Dharma. If there were no Buddhas or Bodhisattvas demonstrating this, it would be too abstract for practitioners. You would only be able to ponder it through words, unable to see the actual situation, and your progress would be slow. If you have a true spiritual friend or someone who has realised their true nature around you, and you go to them to seek the Dharma, your chances of realising your true nature and attaining Buddhahood will greatly increase. At the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre, we have Namo Amituofo, Teacher Practitioner Xia Lianju, and Practitioner Su, who has realised her true nature. This is such a rare and magnificent opportunity. You must cherish it and know its value so that you may come to seek the Dharma.
Life is limited. Practitioner Su, who has realised her true nature, will not stay in the human world forever. But the spirit never dies, and she can freely be reborn in the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss. To go when she wishes and return when she wishes—how carefree! This skill must be passed on. Therefore, those who seek the truth, those who hope to travel freely to the Western Pure Land, and those who hope to realise their true nature: once you know that there is a Buddha and someone who has realised their true nature here, come quickly! Every minute and every second in this place is precious.
The Power of Self-Effort and
Why do I urge everyone to go to the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre? Because one who has realised their true nature can observe your capacity and teach accordingly. They can clearly see your roots and qualifications and know what method to use to educate you, allowing you to break through delusion and attain enlightenment in the shortest possible time. This saves you much more time than fumbling on your own. Perhaps you may not have the opportunity to return to your true nature and attain Buddhahood in this lifetime, but with the guidance of a Buddha, , or one who has realised their true nature, your spirit can be elevated. This is the part of 'other-power'—the Buddha's —combined with your own diligent efforts. This is the two-power Dharma Gate. The so-called 'Buddha's blessings' still require your own effort first. If you do not come here to seek the Dharma yourself, and only listen and think, 'Oh, that sounds good,' and stop there, your own effort has not manifested. How can you receive the benefits of the Buddha's blessings? Naturally, the chance of realising your true nature and attaining Buddhahood becomes slim.
Having said that, perhaps it is because realising the true nature has so many benefits that you want to find it. But a more important thing is to have the vow to save sentient beings, including yourself. This is self-salvation. One must be able to save oneself before one can save others; this is the most perfect and best situation. Strictly speaking, 'self-salvation' refers to realising the true nature. Only after realising the true nature can one save sentient beings. This was the requirement in the past. If you entered the Buddha's gate and joined a school, if you did not achieve realisation, the master would not let you go out to teach sentient beings, because you might become lost yourself and deviate, which would harm everyone. Therefore, in the past, without the master's approval, one could not leave the temple to save sentient beings. But that was when there was a master leading, and the master had realised their true nature and could observe the disciple's capacity and learning situation.
The Importance of Caution in Teaching
However, we are currently in the age of the Dharma’s decline, and the world is heavily polluted. Furthermore, even among the monastics, how many have truly practiced until they realised their true nature? They are rare. It truly depends on your luck—or more accurately, your Dharma affinity. If your Dharma affinity is magnificent and matured, you will be able to meet someone who has realised their true nature. You, the fourfold assembly of the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre, know how lucky you are and how magnificent your Dharma affinity is, do you not? Do not let it slip away easily.
In the past, the requirement for monastics was to realise their true nature before saving sentient beings, or at least to have attained enlightenment. But today, this may be difficult due to limited lifespans and the rarity of true teachers. However, the Buddha's teachings must still be passed on. Therefore, even if some who give Dharma talks have not realised their true nature, they must still do so. At this time, one must be very cautious. If you do not understand, do not speak. Even if you do, just touch upon it briefly; do not use your own ideas to interpret the sutras. Because if you could truly interpret the sutras with your own ideas without error, you would have realised your true nature. It is precisely because your ideas are still far from the true Buddha-Dharma, the universal principle, the truth, and the right way that there are discrepancies or even deviations. If people believe what you say and act accordingly, you are not only creating karma, but if this statement is captured and passed on, the Dharma becomes distorted. In that case, who is responsible for this karma? If it is your own words, it starts with you. If you are repeating the words of predecessors, ancestral masters, or modern teachers, the karma starts with the one who first wrote or said it, and your karma is lighter. So, is giving Dharma talks important? It is very, very important; otherwise, I would not have spent sixty years continuously giving talks without interruption. But one must be very careful. This is why I do not dare to bring in my own personal opinions, but try my best to follow the words in the sutras, , and treatises. I know that I have not yet realised my true nature and attained Buddhahood, so I dare not be careless.
The Path of Purification
This is why, when training people to give Dharma talks, those who are more purified are more capable of taking the stage. Of course, this is a secondary method when there is no one who has realised their true nature to give the talk. If one has heavy ego-attachment, strong subjectivity, or a strong personality, such a person is not suitable for giving talks unless they can control themselves and not add their own subjective opinions. This is difficult, as it is easy to make mistakes when answering questions. When lecturing, perhaps there is a text to follow, which is fine, but when answering questions from followers, one fears making mistakes. Mistakes may not be discovered, but because subjectivity and personality are forms of pollution, adding them in not only creates karma for oneself but also pollutes the other person. This is not just creating verbal karma; it may also create the karma of hell. Therefore, one must be very careful about pollution.
What is pollution? Selfish thoughts, thinking of oneself, greed, anger, ignorance, arrogance, doubt, and the pursuit of wealth, lust, fame, food, and sleep are all pollution. It is easier to explain it this way because everyone is familiar with these terms. Even so, everyone is often polluted again and again. Every thought is the easiest way to commit an offense. Once you have a thought, you do not know if a second, third, or fourth thought will follow, or if you can stop it. This requires awareness to stop; otherwise, the thought will continue to develop, and some cannot even be stopped. Adding actions creates even more karma. Especially for monastics, knowing the mistake and committing it, knowing the precepts and breaking them, is a crime upon a crime.
Therefore, every thought is very easy to create karma. Practitioner Su also mentioned in her Dharma talks that 'no-thought' is the best way to prevent thoughts from creating karma. Of course, this requires practice, starting with awareness—being able to wake up to the fact that you have had a thought. If it is a good thought, that is fine; if it is an evil thought, stop it as soon as it arises, and you must be able to stop it. Many cannot stop it, and they have to follow their karma. Because having thoughts is sometimes due to the manifestation of karma. To put it bluntly, if there is no true spiritual friend nearby to guide you, you might continue to create karma and reincarnate. Sometimes, even when a true spiritual friend guides you, you still cannot stop it. That is truly a pity; you will have to suffer in hell, which is very painful! At that time, you do not know if Practitioner Su will still be in the human world. You need her to be there to save you. If Practitioner Su is not there, who will save you when you cry out? Unless you can chant 'Namo Amituofo' or the four characters 'Amituofo,' then Namo Amituofo can still save you.
Therefore, the choice of who gives Dharma talks is very important, but it is not that difficult. Everyone's Dharma affinity is different. If you pay attention to some precautions and have the affinity, you can speak the Dharma to sentient beings, even if it is just one or two sentences, or let the other person hear a single Buddha-name. This is for those who have not yet realised their true nature. If someone who has realised their true nature takes the stage, it is different. Every word they speak is a Dharma, and the content is never tiring to hear. Every time they speak the Dharma, the listeners benefit. Why? Because those who have realised their true nature can observe the capacity of the audience and teach accordingly. If it is one-on-one guidance, it is even more magnificent; it is prescribing the right medicine for your specific problem. If you accept it, listen, understand, and change, it is twice the result with half the effort—a rapid advancement. Even if you do not understand one-on-one guidance, it does not matter. A true spiritual friend can use other methods to express the Dharma, perhaps through speaking, metaphors, or anything visible before you to help you understand. As long as you are willing to learn, those who have realised their true nature are willing to teach. But if you have no heart to learn, even the best Dharma cannot save you; you will have to form an affinity, go through birth, aging, sickness, and death, and follow your karma. I fear that if your ego-attachment and views are strong, and you are unwilling to let go of your own subjective views, how can you learn? Human life is limited, and you will not learn it. Therefore, the mindset of the seeker is very important. Do you really want to learn? Do you really want to achieve the recovery of your Buddha-nature and find the truth and the true nature? If you truly have the heart and the vow, true spiritual friends and those who have realised their true nature will help you understand more clearly and return to your true nature sooner. After all, not everyone has the opportunity to receive one-on-one guidance, so you must cherish it!
'Purification' is the necessary process for 'realising the true nature,' and 'pollution' is the creation of karma. From pollution to purification to realising the true nature, there is still a process.
Alright, let us stop here for today.
Namo Amituofo.
Venerable Jingkong, with palms joined.
At the Western Dharma-Nature Land of the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre, Australia.
