This is a record of an interview with the primordial demon Tu Ta, who sought deliverance at the Hsiang Kuang Buddhist Centre in Goombungee, Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia. He now resides in the Western Land of Nature. This account reflects upon his existence spanning approximately 260,000 trillion years. Recorded by the chief writer, Venerable HaiZe, on April 23, 2025.
Tu Ta speaks:
". I am Tu Ta, and I have arrived. My name is Tu Ta, Tu Ta, Tu Ta. In the Dharma Realm, the name 'Tu Ta' implies that one is a bit dull or slow-witted. Tu Ta, Tu Ta, Tu Ta—it sounds exactly like something slow, doesn't it? And that is exactly what I was. Within the Demon Realm, I was known as the one who was incredibly dim-witted.
A Dull Beginning in the Demon Realm
Let me put it this way: the old demon had spoken to me thousands of times—well, perhaps not thousands, but many, many times—and I simply could not grasp what he was saying. As a result, I was mocked by many other demons. Everyone naturally started calling me 'Tu Ta, Tu Ta, Tu Ta.' Yes, I was truly slow.
I lived inside the demon crowds, yet I never felt discriminated against or mocked. Why? Because I was dull, and I was dull about everything. This actually made the old demon quite happy. He loved seeing my slow, blank expression. He would say, 'I have never seen anyone as stupid as you in the Demon Realm. I have explained this so many times, and you still haven't understood. What exactly is inside your head? Fine, just stay by my side, and let me investigate what is wrong with you.'
I would just smile, looking blank, and say, 'Yes! Yes! Yes!' Later, I discovered that this old demon was extremely strict. By 'strict,' I mean he would not tolerate even the slightest mistake. Since I was so slow, how was I supposed to survive? But I didn't feel any sense of crisis; I didn't worry about it at all.
The Old Demon's Training
When I was still a little demon, another demon said to me, 'Tu Ta, how do you expect to stay by the old demon's side? He is so sharp and capable; you need to be able to infer ten things from one. You can't even understand something after being told a hundred times. How will you survive?' I just chuckled. I didn't know, and I figured I would just deal with it when the time came!
As it turned out, this old demon possessed true attainment. His demon nature was incredibly strong, meaning his reaction speed was lightning-fast. While I was by his side, he would often transmit some of his demon power to me, hoping to make me a bit smarter. I didn't know what he was doing, but he would often grab me, look at my head with a very serious expression, and say, 'Tu Ta, watch my hand carefully.'
I said, 'Watching your hand.' The Demon King said, 'Watch my hand. You don't need to lift your head; just move your eyes upward.' I thought to myself, 'Is that even possible?'
The Demon King continued, 'From now on, when I tell you to watch my hand, just look like that. Do not lift your head.' Later, I realized that when I lifted my head, the transmission of energy was affected. By keeping it straight, the energy could be poured into my body quickly and without obstruction. Although it was only a difference of a few seconds, success and failure are often decided in those very moments.
The Breakthrough of the Dull Demon
So, I remembered this: 'When told to watch the hand, do not lift the head; watch the hand, do not lift the head.' I recited it many times before I finally remembered it. See? I really was that dull.
The old demon poured much of his power into my head. It was truly miraculous. What originally took a hundred explanations for me to understand eventually took ninety, then eighty. Although the progress was slow, it was progress nonetheless. Later, it became seventy, sixty, fifty, forty, thirty, twenty, and finally, when I could understand after ten times, it caught everyone's attention.
'This is strange. You don't seem like Tu Ta anymore. The old Tu Ta wasn't like this.' I just chuckled, 'I think so too.' Everyone fell to the ground in disbelief. In truth, I didn't even realize I was progressing. Eventually, I reached a point where I understood exactly what to do after being told just once.
At that point, the old demon said, 'This child has the roots of wisdom after all; he is worth training.' It turned out the old demon was using this method, with a heart of , to clear the blockages in my body.
The Reality of Spiritual Attachments
Looking back from my current studies at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre, I realize I had many beings attached to me, interfering with me, which is why my reactions were so slow. When the old demon poured his energy into me, he drove away those blockages—the places where beings were interfering. The Demon Realm doesn't talk about 'resolving conflicts' or 'give and take'; it is simply using force to directly expel the beings from and filling the space with energy. Those beings could no longer approach me, so my reactions became faster day by day. Only when I reached that level myself did I understand how much the old demon cherished me. And it was indeed cherishing. Otherwise, I would never have had the chance to live for 260,000 trillion years.
From then on, I understood: a spirit is not just a single entity; there are other beings attached to us. They have karmic relationships with us and can turn into tiny molecules, attaching themselves to our Six Roots, making us slow and inflexible. This explains why I was so dull. It meant I owed many people debts from the past. Even though I had no physical body then, they could still find me, forming . Debts must be repaid; even if one becomes a demon and exists only as a spirit, it is the same.
Just as some demons have great , others live in misery. Blessings, merit, and virtue—these are all facts. The laws of and cause and effect do not only apply when one has a human body. Attached beings, demon crowds, and all exist in the spiritual realms. Why do some spirits wear rags, cry, and are filled with resentment that cannot be resolved, while others are luminous, becoming immortals, Pratyekabuddhas, or Arhats? This is the difference in blessings and whether or not one has practiced.
The Power of the Holy Name
Ultimately, Buddhist education is truly vital, especially for dull beings. Without relying on Buddhist education to clear the blockages, one is truly helpless. But how does this education clear the blockages? It sounds abstract, but it actually relies on the Holy Name 'Namo Amituofo.' As long as one chants the Buddha's name with a sincere and devoted heart, it can clear the blockages, allowing the Buddha-light to work upon our Six Roots. One does not realize the power until one chants; once you do, you will know that the Buddha's power is incomparably vast.
One must know how to use the Buddha-name, just as the old demon used his power to help me. If it had no effect, how would I have known the old demon had such power? Back then, because Tu Ta's blockages were cleared, the karmic creditors were driven away by the old demon's power. I don't know where they were driven to. The Demon Realm is not as compassionate as Practitioner Su; there is no 'Western Land of Dharma Nature' for beings to start a new life and reform. They were simply driven away, and the debts were not yet settled. If they encounter me one day, they can still come back to seek revenge. This is a world of difference compared to the compassion of Practitioner Su, who established the Western Land of Dharma Nature, allowing karmic creditors to live in peace and even enter the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss. One side drives them away, while the other resolves the conflict; one side uses force, while the other uses kindness and provides benefits so that beings are willing to leave and enter a place of light. Intelligent beings will naturally choose the latter.
The Choice of the Wise
I have also seen that some beings, after being sent to the Western Land of Dharma Nature, are willing to let go of their resentment, stop seeking revenge, and live happy lives. But there are also those who cling tightly, refusing to leave, wanting to live and die with the person they are attached to—these are the demons who gnash their teeth. I can understand their . But think about it: a spirit has only one life. Even if you suffered great hatred from them in the past, now that you are attached to them, making them drowsy and degenerate, will you truly be happy in the end? If one still has a shred of conscience, one will understand why the old demons eventually chose to live in seclusion. It is because they cannot bear to see the miserable state of those they once harmed. So, they find a place to hide, and I am the same.
I never expected that the dull demon of the past would later become a demon of supreme intelligence. I must thank the old demon for his cultivation. But this 'supreme intelligence' was used for attacking, plundering, and destroying, not for the virtues of Buddhist compassion, wisdom, tolerance, mind-capacity, , and letting go. Because I encountered a demon, not a Buddha. I believe that beings with high malleability become whatever they encounter. So, I became as formidable as the old demon, learning well and gaining a body of demon power.
For those dull demons, I also give them a hand because I have received such grace. But not every demon is malleable; some are like rotten wood that cannot be carved, and I can only give up on them. As for what happens to them later, I don't bother to look. That is the way of the Demon Realm; if you cannot survive, you are naturally eliminated. It is not like Amitabha Buddha, who treats even a small flower, a blade of grass, or even a molecule of air as a sentient being—as a Buddha. They have only lost their way, which is why they became flowers, grass, air molecules, or even demon crowds. But no matter what, Amitabha Buddha still wants to save them. Once the deliverance is successful, they become a Buddha. This is the greatness of the Buddha.
The Path to
The Demon Realm is different; demons want you to be evil to the extreme. The two worlds are worlds apart. One side is the Dharma Realm demons, and the other is the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre in Goombungee, Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia—the place where Amitabha Buddha currently resides.
I originally knew nothing of the Buddha, but since being awakened by a loud sound in my place of seclusion and coming to the environment of the Western Land of Dharma Nature, I had no choice but to start understanding what was happening. After listening to the interviews of other demons, I slowly understood: this place is called the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre, which belongs to the Western Land of Dharma Nature; I learned of the personage known as Practitioner Su; I learned of the existence of the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss and Amitabha Buddha. I was truly a late bloomer.
But once awakened, I can forge ahead. This is called 'being a pioneer.' It fits my journey in the Demon Realm perfectly. To be a pioneer means that once you know of a treasure, you will not easily let it go; you will grasp it tightly. Intelligent demons, wise demons, are like this. Once you have received it, you must use it well—not for selfishness, but because if one day you attain Buddhahood, you can save more beings. That is wisdom, isn't it? This is also what I have learned recently from listening to the sutras and from you, the fourfold assembly of disciples.
In fact, every one of you is very intelligent and talented. Many of these are blessings accumulated from past lives, allowing you to excel in certain areas and continue to develop without being easily erased. But if you do not affirm these talents and instead disregard or set them aside, then in the end, you will be the ones who suffer the loss.
The Protection of
In the Buddha's teachings, the practice of 'Precepts, meditative concentration, and Wisdom' is truly excellent. However, for demon crowds, these norms do not exist. What precepts? We would never follow them! Keeping precepts does not fit the demon nature at all. Demon nature is—you can do anything; as long as I want to do it, I can do it, without any restrictions.
But the Buddha's teachings establish rules for you, telling you what you cannot do and what you should avoid. If you follow them, you are actually protecting yourself, preventing yourself from committing faults. Although your heart might want to do certain things, if you are willing to listen and act according to the precepts, then this is your progress, and that is the true purpose of the precepts—to protect yourself from getting hurt. Once you hurt yourself, it takes great effort to recover. At that time, you will think, 'If I had known, why did I do it?' A careless word, an unintentional action, or even a small fluctuation of thought—why let it begin?
Intelligent practitioners should understand the laws of karma and cause and effect. If you do not create negative causes, you will not have evil consequences, and naturally, you will not have to suffer the bitter fruit. If you always act on impulse, thinking, 'I will do whatever I want, I'll do it first and worry about the consequences later,' then fine, satisfy your desires to your heart's content! But you must know, after doing so, what sweetness is left to taste? Nothing. Even if it seems like you gained something in the moment, you will eventually have to face the retribution. Because you are a practitioner, not an ordinary person.
The Difference Between Practitioners and Ordinary People
What is the difference between a practitioner and an ordinary person? A huge difference! Practitioners must let their 'original nature' manifest so they can save themselves and save sentient beings. If your actions only cause your Six Roots to sprout endless afflictions, then not only can you not do anything good, but you cannot elevate your spirituality. It is not only unhelpful to your practice but harmful.
I have said so much; did you understand? I see some people starting to doze off. Alas, this is . When entering this space, it is not just the fourfold assembly of disciples who are controlled by karmic creditors; the demon crowds are also interfering. Not understanding, not being able to listen, not wanting to listen—this state is often because you have attached beings with you as you enter this space. You take them to play, to live a life of unrestrained freedom. In the space entered during dreams or drowsiness, you can temporarily satisfy certain physiological and psychological needs. Once you have tasted the sweetness, it is not easy to pull it out by the roots. Why did you ever let it start?
This is the principle that 'Bodhisattvas fear the cause, while ordinary beings fear the result.' Bodhisattvas know the consequences are bitter, so they dare not easily create negative causes. If one day, even the demon crowds understand this principle, then they too can be included in the ranks of Buddhas and Bodhisattvas! But if you always follow your own desires, thinking, 'What is wrong with that? If I want to do it, I will!' then after creating countless spiritual obstacles, you will truly be with the demons. This is called 'dullness'—the inability to see the truth of the facts.
What about those with 'sharp roots'? They keep their eyes wide open, clearly knowing what should be done and doing it, and what should not be done, they won't even touch it. They don't even want to have the thought. This is what is called a wise person. What about those without wisdom? As soon as they encounter something, they rush to collect it, rush to stuff it into their pockets, and do whatever they want, worrying about the consequences later. This is typical foolish behavior!
Therefore, one must undergo Buddhist education to make everyone understand. If you let yourself think, 'If I think it's right, then it's right,' then there are too many such people, and many beings are like this, self-righteous, and are exactly what the demon crowds use. The selfishness and self- of the demon crowds are extremely strong, and the sense of 'I' is very heavy. In such competition, the strong get stronger, and if the weak want to catch up, they must work twice as hard.
The Only Way Forward
But at this very moment, we don't need any of that. We only need the Holy Name 'Namo Amituofo,' and just chant along. Everything can be let go, let go completely, leaving only Namo Amituofo. See if you can manage to chant this Holy Name. If you can, you have a chance to become a Buddha; if you cannot, you can only continue to reincarnate and remain an ordinary person.
Intelligent fourfold assembly of disciples, think about it: which one do you want to be? If you remain an ordinary person, experiencing birth, aging, sickness, and death in the six realms of rebirth, then when will you ever encounter the Buddha's teachings again? Perhaps, even when you are at the end of your life, you will not have the opportunity to encounter them, and you will only be able to meet in dreams, only be able to listen in dreams, slightly satisfying that missing piece in your heart. Therefore, this is also why it is very difficult to wake many people up after they enter a dream. Because that dream is what they want; how could they be willing to leave? How could they be willing to depart?
Furthermore, I have also seen many situations recently—old demons calling their demon children and grandchildren back to surrender to the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre. This is also a way for the old demons to care for their juniors.
After all is said and done, only the 'Amitabha Buddha' Holy Name is the most real and beneficial. If your time is limited and you cannot even save yourself, you are not yet qualified to save sentient beings. As long as you have done ninety-nine percent of the good, if there is still one percent not done well, it will be highlighted, and even the merit of the ninety-nine percent might be burned away by the fire of the forest of merit. Having said this, does everyone still want to give rise to anger?
As for the content of these interviews, you have internal division of labor and cooperation, which is very good. After all, this is not something one or two people can do. If you do not coordinate well, the demon crowds will come out to interfere, which will also disturb your heart and thoughts.
Every word I say is the truth. Although I was originally dull and later became a smart demon, I have never thought of hiding anything from anyone. Hiding is pollution; it is creating sin. I have always kept a sincere heart, and living this way allows me to avoid creating many grievances. This method is very good and can be used anytime, anywhere. As long as you do not move your heart and do not interact with the other party, you can hold your ground. There are many treasures in the Buddha-land. If your ears can hear, your heart can receive, your eyes can see, and you are willing to believe, then listen, collect well, and use it well. You will certainly be able to find your Buddha-nature soon.
This is what I expect of myself, so I say it out loud, hoping that everyone can awaken to their true nature soon and attain Buddhahood. Namo Amituofo!
The Art of Earth-Escaping
I have discovered that every time I accept an interview, I seem to return to that slightly dull state of the past. But I actually forgot such an important thing: I need to tell everyone where I entered samadhi! In 260,000 trillion years, I could not have lived in front of demons all the time; there must have been times of seclusion. This has become an unwritten rule, and naturally, when that time came, I felt it should be so. About when was it? Let me think. Sometimes, numbers just appear in my head, telling me the answer. Alright, I have received the message I gave myself: I entered samadhi at '160,000 trillion years.' By that time, I was already an old demon.
I felt it was time. Very naturally, step by step, I progressed to find a place to enter samadhi; it was not suitable to continue lingering in front of demons. A tall tree catches the wind! At that time, I was already a very famous old demon. I did not want to live a life of being recognized and watched anymore; I wanted to live a life where no one knew me—how wonderful that would be.
So, I found a place—a 'Tu Ta' (Earth Tower). The character 'Tu' (Earth) probably has a deep affinity with the land, so this name was placed first. The place I found was inside the earth. This is quite ordinary, isn't it? But I stayed there for a full 100,000 trillion years! This is not an ordinary thing. The ground I was buried in was not very deep; perhaps... sometimes you can find it just by digging a little. But I didn't think much about it at the time; it was truly an intuitive approach—how deep I went was how deep I went. I settled there, so I drilled into the earth.
I am sorry, I don't think I have ever mentioned to you that I actually have the skill of drilling into the earth. I kept saying I was stupid, but in fact, after I had a sudden realization, I discovered that I had a special affinity with the land, especially in the skill of drilling into the earth. I could drill from the surface to very, very deep underground in one breath. Why do this? Let me tell you, this is the skill of 'earth-escaping,' and not every demon can learn it. Underground, you sometimes encounter very hard soil layers or other demons and dark, black environments. Only by overcoming the ability to survive in such places can one master the skill of earth-escaping.
I relied on this skill to escape many catastrophes. At the same time, every one of my demon children and grandchildren also has the ability to escape into the earth. Whatever the old demon has, he naturally passes it down to his demon children and grandchildren. In the Demon Realm, this kind of inheritance is quite natural and is also an implied rule. Everyone does this—if one day they disappear, they hope their skills can be passed down in the Demon Realm. The demon crowds do have this kind of mind-capacity. Therefore, sometimes it is not only passed to people in one's own demon group but also to other demon groups, because some have good roots and learn as soon as they are taught; those with dull roots cannot learn even after being taught for a long time.
Final Reflections
Back then, the old demon was truly patient with me! Honestly, I later used this method to train several disciples, and they eventually became sharp-rooted demons, which is not an easy thing. If you have not personally experienced these things, it is hard to really use them. Most demons, in the end, are selfish and only know how to protect themselves; how could they give their demon power to others? Unless they have plans to 'retire' and want to pass on their skills.
This is a very common situation. If there is no successor, their skills will disappear in the Demon Realm along with them, which is actually quite a pity. Some demons feel their skills are remarkable and cannot let them be lost; therefore, they choose a few excellent successors and hand over their skills. But the successors must also strive! 'Striving' means that whatever the master teaches, you learn well, listen obediently, and do not have too many of your own opinions. Having too many of your own opinions will only lead to nothing in the end, wasting time, energy, and physical strength. If you were in the human world, you would also waste money and wealth.
I also taught the skill of earth-escaping, and my demon crowds all know it to some extent. But can they use it well? Is it proficient? You will know as soon as they use it. Those with good skills can drill deep and fast, coming and going freely, and even survive underground; those with poor skills sometimes cannot come back up once they escape into the earth and get stuck underground. If no one saves them, they might become shriveled spirits underground. So, this also carries risks! You must weigh it clearly; if you can't do it, don't force it. Anyway, the Demon Realm is so big that there is always a place suitable for your survival. This is my sincere advice.
Unlike the Buddha, the Buddha can tolerate, care for, and protect without limit, always bringing benefits to sentient beings. There is no 'self' in the Buddha's heart, only sentient beings; while in the demon's heart, there is only 'self,' and sacrificing sentient beings is possible. This is not something the Buddha would do. The Buddha sacrifices himself to achieve sentient beings; the two are truly worlds apart.
Later, how was I sent to the Western Land of Dharma Nature?
Although my earth-escaping skill was not the deepest, it was deep enough. I will speak plainly: at that time, I built a small 'Earth Imperial Palace' underground. Calling it an 'Imperial Palace,' it was actually very small, only able to accommodate two or three demons, very simple. Because it was used for entering samadhi, I didn't need a large space. Relying on that small Earth Imperial Palace, I spent 100,000 trillion years without being found by karma. I didn't move energy completely inside, but the consumption was very small. So as long as I wasn't discovered, I could keep living. Relying on a sliver of breath, one can survive for a long time. This is the power of underground skills.
Until later, when the Buddha-light brought by Amitabha Buddha and Practitioner Su shone on the place where I lived, I woke up completely. That was already the second or third time I had been shone upon by the Buddha-light. This time, I resolutely followed the Buddha. During these days, I also saw the encounters of many other sentient beings and saw the attitudes of strange beings when facing realms, which gave me deep reflections.
The final conclusion is: one's own ability is truly limited, and one must rely on the Buddha. Relying on the Buddha gives one a vision and the strength to live on. If one day you are far from the Buddha, don't blame the Buddha, and don't blame your old demon or Demon King for not reminding you.
Alright, I will make a long story short; let's stop here for today.
