This is a record of an interview with the spirit of Venerable Master Chin Kung, who now resides in the of the Hsiang Kuang Buddhist Centre in Australia. He reflects upon the nature of the universe and the path to . Recorded by the chief writer, Venerable HaiZe, on September 26, 2022.
Venerable Master Chin Kung speaks:
". Today, Namo Amituofo has given me a topic: 'This World and Beyond.' Just hearing the title, one can tell that this covers an incredibly vast scope. In the past, I might have provided a dictionary definition, and perhaps I shall do so now so that everyone feels more familiar with the concept. However, the true intention behind the Buddha giving me this topic is for me to view the reality of space from my current spiritual state. It is certainly different from how I viewed it in the past—it is truly different.
The Infinite Nature of Worlds
The 'world' in 'this world' refers to the realm one inhabits. It could be the Saha world, the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss, or the immeasurable and boundless worlds beyond these. Different beings reside in different worlds. The world where Earth is located is in the south of the Saha world, known as Jambudvipa. When I used to lecture on the Ksitigarbha Sutra, I mentioned that if beings suffering retribution in the hells find their world destroyed, do they stop suffering their retribution? No, they must continue! Although their was being suffered in that specific world, the itself does not disappear when the world is destroyed. They must be moved to the hells of other worlds to continue their retribution. The six realms of existence and the hells are not exclusive to the Saha world; they continue until the term of punishment is served. In truth, worlds are infinite and boundless; beyond the Saha world, there are countless others.
If we look at it from the perspective of a human, the Saha world is a certain space. If we look at it from the perspective of an ant in the animal realm, its world is only that large—the space is only that big. To the ant, that is already vast. Compared to humans, the ant's space seems small, but to the ant, that is its world. Different mind-capacities exist within different world-spaces. In truth, I do not need to provide too many definitions, because what is important is the actual state of space as seen from this moment. That is what Namo Amituofo wishes for me to speak about today. Namo Amituofo is 'without mind'—which means you are free to express yourself fully. Your mind-capacity is infinite, boundless, and 'without mind,' so it cannot be grasped or touched. It is no wonder that Practitioner Su can subdue demonic enemies; it is because he is 'without mind,' and the demon crowds cannot read his heart. That is truly a high level of attainment. I have just provided a simple explanation of 'this world.' The Saha world can be seen as one space, but it can also contain infinite spaces. From the perspective of the Buddha-heart, whether it is one space or infinite spaces, all are clearly understood.
The Vastness of the 'Beyond'
'Beyond' refers to other places or other worlds—places outside of where we are now. The scope is incredibly wide. For beings in different spaces, this 'this world and beyond' differs; it includes the lands of other Buddhas, other outer planets, other celestial bodies, or the ten directions. The ten directions are east, west, south, north, southeast, northeast, southwest, and northwest—that makes eight directions—plus above and below, making ten. In reality, the ten directions cover an immeasurable and boundless range.
In summary, 'this world and beyond' includes all the worlds we can list, hear of, or speak of. Naturally, this also includes the twenty-eight levels of the heavenly realms that Practitioner Su must pass through during , as well as the planets within the vast galaxy of emptiness. The beings on these planets, the beings of various forms in different dimensional spaces, and the beings of the Demon Realm—everyone has a different appearance, different mental states, and different worlds they inhabit. Human bodies can contain beings from the Demon Realm. The world outside the heart also contains beings from the Demon Realm. Some of these demon crowds are in one's own surroundings; Earth has its own demon crowds, the galaxy has its own, and the universe has its own. They are everywhere. It is a state of mind—a type of spirit realm being that carries a 'demon nature.' Just like the Buddha, the Buddha is also omnipresent. Where there is Buddha, there is Mara, because there are beings with Buddha-hearts, and there are beings with demon-hearts and demon-natures. These compose the Buddha-lands or the demon-worlds. These are the realisations I have seen and heard in the -Nature Land.
The Smallness of the Human Realm
'This world and beyond' contains immeasurable and boundless Buddhas, Bodhisattvas, and Buddha-lands. Looking at it this way, how incredibly small the human realm is! In this instant, our space has been opened up, as if we are standing in a boundless void. Within this range, there are spaces within spaces, and spaces within those. It is truly too vast; the number of beings is incalculable. So, to be honest, the 'this world and beyond' I mentioned—whether it refers to space, worlds, or the number of beings—is all immeasurable and boundless. And our bodies are the same!
The Buddha’s teachings instruct us that even in a tiny grain of dust, the space within is infinitely large. The saying 'Mount Sumeru can be contained within a mustard seed, and a mustard seed can contain Mount Sumeru' sounds abstract. But it is a description of a state of mind-capacity. If one can achieve this, it is extraordinary; that person has certainly realised their true nature and attained Buddhahood. The education of the Buddha tells us what a Buddha is and tells us to explore within our own hearts. Every being has Buddha-nature. We must develop our Buddha-nature—oh, it is not called 'developing,' because Buddha-nature is something we originally possess; it has just been hidden. It should be said that we must 'find back' our Buddha-nature. If you can use education and practice to find back this originally possessed true self and Buddha-nature, then your life can be expressed infinitely. Your heart and spirit will be as vast as the boundless Dharma realm of emptiness. Then, what would there be that you cannot understand or let go of? When your spirit is limited by your body, your world can only be that big, and your mind-capacity can only be so much. Although you know you should open your mind-capacity, you are used to the old ways. In such a state of mind, saying you want to realise your true nature is difficult, because you cannot accept that , mind, and spirit can be cleansed of defilements, and that the heart can be expanded infinitely. This is our original face. The education of the Buddha is meant to tell us these things.
The Path to Freedom
I have told you the truth of the facts, but the doing must be done by you—you must actually go and open your mind-capacity. Your spirit was originally only able to stay within this false physical shell under the state of karmic retribution in samsara. If you find back the innate ability of your spirit and reveal its true face, it is extraordinary. Your spirit can be as wide and boundless as 'this world and beyond.' That kind of ease and coolness is something I, Chin Kung, truly envy. In the past, I could only try to fathom it through sutras, treatises, or the writings left behind by the ancestral masters. Now, step by step, I have let go of these shackles—that is to say, I have let go of the false body. With the help of Namo Amituofo and Practitioner Su, I have also escaped the karmic retribution of the hells. Now, I can listen to the sutras and hear the Dharma on a lotus seat in the Western Dharma-Nature Land of the temple. Reaching this stage, this is the most relaxed I have been in my ninety-six years of life and since I left the world at the end of my life. How long has it been since I passed away? Let me think—exactly two months! Heavens, what a coincidence; it really is exactly two months. Does Namo Amituofo know that today is exactly two months since I passed away? He certainly knows. In the realm of the Buddha, there is no movement of thought—it is empty, silent, and pure. Once He wishes to know something, it is in an instant—faster than an instant—He knows immediately. I do not know how to describe it. If we look at it this way, one can do two days' worth of work in twenty-four hours. In this way, one can have much more time to do other things, though they must be things that benefit beings. I can now realise that if one realises their true nature, time is truly well-used; 'two-six' is not just 'two-six.' Now I can truly feel the benefit of quick reactions. How wonderful! Not only do I see things clearly and distinctly, but I even know things without looking, saving a lot of time. This is one of the reasons why the Buddha’s teachings want us to find back our true self.
The Effort Required
Many times, the spirit of people's six roots is limited by their own personality traits and habits. Personality traits and habits are all pollution. If you remove these one by one, you can find back your original face, which is the Buddha. Therefore, everyone can become Namo Amituofo. The core principles are like this, but it requires a great deal of effort! There is no such thing as getting something for nothing in this world!
In Buddhist education, I can tell you the truth, but the 'practice' and 'realisation' in 'faith, understanding, practice, and realisation' must be done by yourself. You must walk step by step, down-to-earth, to receive the benefits. Otherwise, empty talk is useless; you can only envy others but cannot receive the benefits yourself. This is not the purpose of the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas teaching beings! Having said that, 'this world and beyond' is actually within our bodies and our hearts. This heart is 'this world and beyond,' and the body can also be 'this world and beyond.' The body has a physical form, but the spirit has no concrete form or concrete name for you to understand. It is precisely because of this that the spiritual world can be even wider. It depends on whether you can make your heart 'this world and beyond'—boundless. That would be extraordinary.
Furthermore, any place that we in the human realm inhabit, any place we pass through, can be 'this world and beyond'—including a grain of dust, a flower, a blade of grass, a drop of water, or the dust particles in the air that you cannot see. They can all be 'this world and beyond,' not to mention the definitions I mentioned earlier; that scope is even wider. Therefore, the larger your heart, the larger your 'this world and beyond' is. This is why Buddhas and Bodhisattvas can enter very subtle spaces to save the beings within those spaces—that is the principle. No matter how small the spiritual world is, or how large it is, every spatial level can be 'this world and beyond.' In fact, space has no limits; it is the human heart that limits it.
The Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre
The Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre is also 'this world and beyond.' Namo Amituofo is here, and the heart of Namo Amituofo also covers 'this world and beyond.' It is even more infinite and boundless, which is why He can save immeasurable and boundless beings. The Western Land of Ultimate Bliss is the Dharma-Nature Land, which is also 'this world and beyond.' The Western Dharma-Nature Land of the temple is where I am now, and it is also a part of 'this world and beyond.'
Oh! So, 'this world and beyond' is distant, vast, and boundless. It seems to open our hearts and broaden our horizons all at once. After having such a realisation, will there still be gains and losses? Will we still compare ourselves with others with a narrow heart? Or should we lighten and let go of gains, losses, and comparisons? It may be due to personality traits and habits, so it is not easy to change. However, if you do not want to remain in the six realms and want to escape this karmic force, you must diligently and effortfully change your personality traits. Only then can you sweep away the causes that make you suffer, make your heart feel stifled, unable to open up, and burdened. To put it bluntly, these are all illusory phenomena; they change. Without knowing the truth, the heart is limited by these things and is unhappy. That is a pity.
Our hearts can be as vast as 'this world and beyond,' enjoying unrestricted happiness and freedom. Knowing is one thing, but can you do it? Practice is the process of overcoming the things you cannot do; you must face them and be diligent. When one day you succeed, you have taken a step forward. In this step-by-step progress, you take off the burdens and attachments of your body and mind, throw them away, and no longer want them. Then you can find back your true self. You have the body and lifespan of this lifetime to work hard; it is just that you do not know how much time you have. You do not know how old you will live to be or how many years you have left. Therefore, you must be diligent and grasp every minute and every second. First, find your true self. Once you have secured this part, returning to the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss will be no problem. Because at that time, you will be free regarding life and death, your spirit will be unrestricted, and you can travel throughout the Dharma realm of emptiness. You can follow Practitioner Su of the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre and, under his leadership, freely travel back and forth to the West. This is possible because what he can do, he will teach everyone, giving everyone the opportunity to do it. But it depends on whether you have the ability. If you do not have this ability, even if Practitioner Su teaches you, you will not be able to do it. Only after you possess this ability and the conditions can you make use of what he teaches everyone.
The Importance of Diligence
So, no matter what, it comes back to relying on yourself, step by step, honestly chanting Namo Amituofo and purifying yourself. You can still find back your true self. The methods are different, but the goal is the same. There is not only one method; use multiple approaches. In short, do not leave the centre of 'realising one's true nature.' This compass always has a centre point. It is the central point from which you expand outward, drawing different lines, but each line has the same length and can reach the circumference from the centre. It is only because everyone's foundation and timing of causal conditions are different that they use different methods to purify and find back your true self. Whether it is reciting sutras, prostrating to the Buddha, chanting the Buddha's name, or listening to the sutras and hearing the Dharma, all are fine.
You must know how to make good use of your time so that you can do two days' worth of work in one day. Whether you use one day as half a day, one day as one day, or one day as three days, it is actually you who is affected. Using one day as one day versus using one day as two days is different. With a selfless heart for the sake of beings, the level of learning is also different. Those who use one day as two days will learn faster, more, and better. Those who have realised their true nature are 'without mind.' When they see where we need to improve, where we need to shift our thoughts, or where our personality traits are showing, they provide reminders and guidance, helping everyone reach the centre and realise their true nature. This is the importance of Buddhas, Bodhisattvas, and true spiritual friends—they teach flexibly, not rigidly or unchangingly. The Buddha’s teachings let us know that our Buddha-nature and true self are cool and free, and most importantly, they can help beings leave suffering behind.
Many practitioners have not yet opened their eyes; this cannot be forced. The space of the eyes must be opened. I know that one must use purification—constant purification. The more the space opens, the more clearly one sees, and the more thoroughly one understands the truth of the facts. This is becoming more in sync with one's true self, and eventually, one will realise one's true nature. In fact, whether it is a large-scale, large-space approach or a small-scale, small-space approach, whichever choice or method is most suitable for you, allowing you to find back your true self in the shortest time, that is the most important thing.
The Opportunity at Hsiang Kuang
Talking about finding back one's true self at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre is very appropriate because everyone has this opportunity. Namo Amituofo is here, Practitioner Su is here, and Teacher Xia Lianju is also here. Everyone is someone who has realised their true nature and attained Buddhahood. Therefore, you, the fourfold assembly of disciples, have the opportunity to realise your true nature while learning in such an environment. If you go to a place to learn Buddhism that sounds famous, but there is no one who has realised their true nature or no Buddha or guiding you, your practice will be very difficult. No matter how much you talk about the true self, it is not easy to achieve. It is like drawing a big pancake in front of you that you cannot eat or touch. But it is not like that at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre. You who perceive and hear will have more opportunities to realise your true nature and escape the six realms of rebirth and life and death than the fourfold assembly of disciples elsewhere.
Today, I have pointed out the scope of 'this world and beyond' in this place. Because the world manifested by the heart is boundless, no matter where you are, the goal of realising one's true nature is the same. I want everyone to know how magnificent your current situation is! Practitioner Su hopes that everyone in the temple can take the initiative to learn. This shows that you have the heart to make further progress on the Buddha's path and want to find back yourself. This is also a state of learning that the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre is happy to see in practitioners.
What I have heard, seen, and personally experienced in the Western Dharma-Nature Land is much deeper than before. In terms of depth and breadth, it is also much wider. This is also to let everyone know that Practitioner Su has his influence in the human world; that is to say, by making good use of his opportunity, he can exert his influence in the human world as much as possible to save more beings. Because he has realised his true nature, time and space cannot limit him. What can be limited is the time and space where this body is located, but the spirit cannot be limited. Because after realising one's true nature, the function of the spirit is great; its degree of liberation and degree of action cannot be compared to before. Of course, if everyone realises their true nature, you will also have this ability. This is not a fantasy; it is achievable and worth everyone spending time, energy, and spirit to seek it back.
Facing Karma
Next, I want to say that when the karmic retribution of the various good and evil, right and wrong deeds done in the past manifests, you must accept it calmly. After transforming karma and realising one's true nature, the heart is empty. Once the karmic retribution created before realising one's true nature appears, you still have to face it. It is just that the state of mind at that time is the state of mind of one who has realised their true nature. You understand that you did not understand in the past and committed many mistakes without realising your true nature. When beings or karma manifest, one who has realised their true nature can see the laws of karma and cause and effect clearly, is willing to accept it, and can face it with a calm heart without suffering. If one has not realised their true nature, the moment of facing the manifestation of karmic retribution is very bitter and painful. It does not mean that if you realise your true nature, you do not have to suffer retribution. This is the difference between having realised one's true nature and not having done so.
I, Chin Kung, also committed mistakes in the past and also made some contributions to the Buddha’s teachings. I have both merits and faults; this is the situation of my journey in the human world. What I want to say now is that everyone must open their mind-capacity. In the past, my mind-capacity was like that, the things I did were like that, and the benefits of the Dharma I received were like that. Until now, I have opened my mind-capacity and can face the mistakes I made in the past. Only after these pollutions are purified can the heart be opened. If the pollution is not purified, the heart cannot be opened and it is difficult to face. How many people are stuck here, afraid to face the mistakes they have made, so their hearts have always been trapped? Once you face it, your heart opens, and you can tolerate others, accept others, and let others receive the benefits of the Dharma together. What I want to say is that Practitioner Su is currently in such a state.
The heart of one who has realised their true nature is boundless. What he sees is beings suffering, rather than seeing how others treated me or what others said about me in the past. Those are irrelevant to him. His heart is like this, so everyone should open their mind-capacity. I have already done so. I honestly admit that it was I who made it impossible for everyone to receive the benefits of Namo Amituofo at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre. Fortunately, I now have this opportunity to tell everyone, so everyone should also open their hearts. Do not think about personal interests; let go of the heart of gains and losses, interests, face, and reputation. After opening your mind-capacity, there is no such thing as face or reputation; there is no 'me.' As long as it is something that benefits everyone, you should do it. The purpose of my saying this is that I hope everyone can come to the temple to be close to Namo Amituofo, and the benefits will not be limited to yourself.
Alright, I will stop here today. Namo Amituofo.
Shi Chin Kung, with palms joined.
At the Western Dharma-Nature Land of the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre, Australia.
