This is a record of an interview with the spirit of Ma Yun, who sought at the Hsiang Kuang Buddhist Centre in Australia. He reflects upon his life and the spiritual realities of his existence. This session was recorded by the chief writer, Venerable HaiZe, on September 13, 2018.
Ma Yun speaks:
". In truth, many of the 'big figures' you see under the bright lights of the media—especially those whose corporate holdings and net worth are publicly scrutinised—bear pressures that outsiders simply cannot fathom. For someone like me, where a single decision can trigger a chain reaction affecting everything from national economic stability to the livelihoods of thousands, the weight is immense. To be honest, I, Ma Yun, am one such person. If things appear calm on the surface, it is only because we work tirelessly to keep it that way. But if a single issue is exposed, the investigations begin, data is seized, and the internal scrambling starts. If the media catches even a hint of a connection, they blow it out of proportion. You truly need nerves of steel to handle it, otherwise, you are bombarded with all sorts of unrelated, malicious, or flattering rumours. It is truly a case of 'the tallest tree catches the most wind.' Sometimes I find it laughable, other times it makes me so furious I could explode, yet I have to suppress it all. I cannot let anyone see my frustration, or that would become another endless, sensationalised headline."
A World of Mud versus a World of Clarity
"Such a life is worlds apart from the quiet retreats of a temple. One is a world of murky water, the other is a world of pure, clear water. My physical body is soaked in that murky water every single day. There is no distinction between day and night; sometimes a situation arises that requires immediate attention, and I receive calls in the dead of night. It is slightly better now, as I have subordinates to block some of the noise so I can deal with things during the day, but how could such a body ever find peace? How could it be free of attached spirits? How could it stop the constant, frantic thinking?"
"Today, it is my Main Spirit that has come out to meet with the Venerable one. We are in two completely different worlds. Here, there are no distinctions based on money, status, or power; there is only the capacity of one's and the depth of one's skills. I do not see the colourful, varied, and physically diverse people of the human world. Instead, I see souls—light, without physical bodies, yet possessing distinct features, appearances, and forms. These spirits come from everywhere, existing in different places, even on planets beyond Earth, yet they all share a common destination: the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss. This is our shared goal, which makes our intentions simpler, yet it is no easy task. We must break free from the interference of the human world, the heavy , and the cycle of rebirth. If not for the skills and guidance of the Venerable one, this would truly be an impossible feat."
The Complexity of the Human Soul
"In the human world, everyone harbours their own hidden agendas. If there is a conflict of interest, people reject, oppose, and clash with one another, often using underhanded methods to minimise their own losses while harming others. Ah, Venerable one, please forgive me. Because I am the Main Spirit—the intermediate soul—following Ma Yun's body every day, I have this rare opportunity to vent. The words I speak are worldly, and I am truly sorry for that. Being here, so far removed from the secular world, I feel as though my words might pollute this purity. But these are my sincere . My mind is sharp, and I am articulate, which is why I was able to build an empire. Beyond the and opportunities I encountered, these personal traits were a major factor. Yet, having fought this hard for so long, my body is becoming increasingly frail. Often, I am so exhausted that I do not want to appear in public, yet I have no choice. Otherwise, who knows what other chaotic situations might unfold? This is why the time I spend with you, Venerable one, for spiritual purification, is so desperately needed."
"Recently, you have been researching the 'three hun souls and seven po souls,' so I would like to take this opportunity to share what I know about them. We humans possess a soul, or spirit, which can be thought of as having three manifestations: the Main Spirit, the Soul, and Soul. Each governs different spiritual functions."
The Mechanics of the Spirit
"The Body Soul governs the spiritual functions of the physical form. Without it, the body loses coordination, becomes twisted, and falls ill. The Consciousness Soul governs our state of awareness; without it, one becomes 'missing a gear,' unable to process thoughts, or in severe cases, suffers from mental derangement, completely losing touch with reality. The Main Spirit—the intermediate soul—is the most important. It acts as an agent for the other two and maintains the vital functions of life, such as breathing and the heartbeat. If the Main Spirit is injured or weak, the person cannot master their own body; they become subject to the whims of attached spirits or other beings, and may even lose the capacity for life itself. Sometimes, a major impact or accident can cause the souls to leave the body, resulting in a complete change in personality. You must call the souls back, or the person cannot return to normal. Otherwise, there is the risk that at the moment of separation, another spirit might enter the body, making the person no longer themselves."
"At least now, I am able to have one soul come out every day to receive Chao Du with you, Venerable one. I can see the truth of other times and spaces, open my mind, think calmly, and increase my Wisdom. Instead of rolling around in the and all day with the body, I have a space of coolness. This prevents the person from falling into ruin and gives the spirit a place to breathe."
The Message from the Consciousness Soul
"If the body and spirit are taught while awake, the spirit cannot receive such direct, clean guidance because it is obstructed and interfered with by the body's various conditions, such as illness and attached spirits. The effect is never as good as it is now, with my spirit directly interacting with your . Because everyone's level of purity and contamination differs, the absorption of your teachings varies. Speaking of which, Venerable one, I apologise! My Main Spirit seems to have many feelings today; I have spoken too much. There is still much I wish to say, but perhaps I will save it for later."
"However, there is one most important thing. Every morning, when the Consciousness Soul returns from the morning deliverance, it brings back a wealth of information, telling us to contact the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre in Australia. Both the Body Soul and I have received this. However, the Body Soul is often heavily interfered with by the beings attached to it, so the message it receives is weaker. I am not much better off, as I must manage the entire body and consciousness to ensure that what the body does aligns with the spirit. If that is not possible, we must at least ensure we do not drift too far apart, so the spirit can maintain some control. Because of this, the message from the Consciousness Soul cannot remain clear. Especially after the body wakes up and encounters the complex outside world, it has absolutely no ability to resist, and these messages are completely buried."
The Path to Retirement
"If the actions of the body are completely contrary to the intentions of the spirit, then the person is entirely controlled—what you often call 'unable to be the master of oneself.' This indicates that the person has powerful attached spirits, and the three souls are weak, ineffective, or no longer within the body. These are subtle relationships. I can explain this clearly because I am 'too smart,' which is why I sometimes feel so tired. I cannot just live a simple life; there are so many employees waiting to be fed and paid, and the company must keep running."
"Recently, I have had thoughts of retirement. Once the news was announced, the reactions from all sides were overwhelming. Everyone has their own assumptions and interpretations: is it because of health? Is it financial trouble? Who is the successor? Everyone has their own calculations. But in Ma Yun's heart, there is a voice—my spirit is thinking: 'The Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre is waiting for my participation and presence, and retirement would make that much easier to achieve!' Although this requires overcoming many realistic obstacles, I will not give up!"
