This is a record of an interview with Mo Fa Rong, an ancient demon who sought deliverance at the Hsiang Kuang Buddhist Centre in Australia. He reflects upon his existence spanning 7,960 trillion years within the Realm. Recorded by the chief writer, Venerable HaiZe, on February 16, 2025.
Mo Fa Rong speaks:
". My name is Mo Fa Rong. I never imagined that one day, under these circumstances, I would be sending out a message to share a bit about life in the Demon Realm. Seven thousand nine hundred and sixty trillion years is such a long time; I have experienced far too many things. To be honest, I have forgotten most of them. Where should I begin? I will start with the most recent events, the ones that left the deepest impression on me.
I had been living in seclusion, hiding within the very air of the Dharma Realm—specifically, inside the 'air molecules.' I only learned the term 'air molecule' after I entered the Dharma-Nature Land and listened to the teachings; it is a term used by the people of Earth. The Dharma Realm is an incredibly vast space within the void, boundless and infinite. In this boundless realm, the thing that is most abundant, filling every corner and every place, is air! This description holds true for any planet or space in the Dharma Realm or the universe. So, I use the term 'inside the air molecules' to describe where I was hiding.
Hiding in the Molecules of the Dharma Realm
I can perceive that within the molecular science known to humans, there exist many tiny molecules and elements, each with its own name. I existed within one of the elements inside an air molecule. I never thought of myself as playing such a role. It was only after I left that space and arrived here that I realised I had been an element hiding in the air molecules of the Dharma Realm. I stayed in that seclusion for a very long time—nearly three trillion years out of my 7,960-trillion-year life in the Demon Realm.
During that time, wherever the air molecules went, I went. However, I never felt as though I was moving. The space inside was vast—just as people imagine the void of the Dharma Realm to be! You might as well imagine the element within the air molecule where I hid as being just as large as the void of the Dharma Realm itself!
The Illusion of Size and Space
In that state, I remained completely still, using a very, very faint element to sustain my demon body. I am a spirit. This spirit was extremely small within that element. But while I was there, I did not know I was small. In the Buddha’s teachings, there is a saying: 'A mustard seed contains Mount Sumeru, and Mount Sumeru contains a mustard seed.' This statement breaks open the concepts of size and space. When there is no existence of large or small space, a mustard seed is as large as the void, and the void is as small as a mustard seed. This is the absence of discrimination between sizes. So, you can see that while the molecular elements you observe now appear so tiny, to each element itself, it does not feel small at all. That is how things are. Once explained, the truth of the matter is just like that."
Eventually, my Demon King found me. He asked how I had managed to leave the Demon Realm for so long and how I had ended up in this place. It was only later that I realised it was the Buddha's space that had been protecting me, keeping me hidden from their reach. Now that the Buddha had departed, I naturally manifested within the space, and the Demon King was finally able to see me. For a long time after that, I remained silent. The time I had spent with the Buddha had left such a profound impression on me that I could not speak.
Returning to the dark Demon Realm, a place that should have been the most familiar to me, felt suddenly strange. However, the adaptability of a demon is incredibly strong, and I quickly reverted to my original form. The light that the Buddha had ignited within me began to fade away, bit by bit. Because I had experienced that extraordinary period of time, the Demon King held me in high regard. He believed that I must possess some unique ability for the Buddha to have taken such special care of me.
The Endless Search for Buddha-Light
Under the training of the Demon King, I became a very powerful demon king. My strength lay in my ability to enter into the very fabric of space. No matter how deep or how minute the space was, I could enter it. I was constantly searching for that light—the Buddha-light. I believed that the Buddha-light must exist somewhere. The Buddha had told me that the vastness of the Dharma Realm contains infinite Buddhas, and every single Buddha must radiate light. I searched everywhere, but I could not find it.
Throughout my four thousand trillion years of life in the Demon Realm, I have done many things—I have been evil to the extreme and wicked to the point of no return. Yet, whenever I performed some earth-shattering act, I would force myself into a period of silence. I believed that meditative concentration holds power. Once the demon nature arises, the act of charging forward requires energy. After such an outburst, the demon's energy is depleted, and the demonic power diminishes significantly; one must preserve the remaining energy. To extend the life of a demon, one enters into a deep meditative state. The duration of this state varies, depending on the conditions. Thus, in my four thousand trillion years of demonic activity, I spent nearly half of that time in deep meditative states.
The Truth of
Regarding the laws of and cause and effect, the younger generation of demons treats them with disdain; they are bold and reckless. They think, 'If I were to worry about karmic retribution, I would never get anything done.' But for the old demons and ancient demons, they have seen too much. As Practitioner Su often mentions recently, there are demon crowds trapped in magma or crushed beneath great mountains with no one to save them and no one to discover them—I have seen these things myself. Because I am capable of entering into extremely deep spaces, after witnessing such sights, I would force myself into a deep meditative state, hoping to escape the retribution of cause and effect. The younger demons do not see us old and ancient demons discussing karmic retribution. If we were to talk about it, would they even want to be demons anymore? This is precisely why many ancient demons and old demons choose to avoid being seen.
For old and ancient demons, destroying a planet is far too simple. The energy within an ancient demon is incredibly wicked and highly explosive. So, why enter into a deep meditative state? It is to use meditative concentration to stabilise this energy and prevent it from surging outward. However, facts are facts. Even when old and ancient demons are in a deep meditative state, a very faint life still exists within them. Even if one suppresses the explosive energy and uses a very, very, very low level of energy—so low that it is almost imperceptible, or even to the point where the demon spirit cannot be seen—this spiritual life still exists. Unless it withers away and loses the ability to sustain its spirit, it will not be extinguished. While we are in a deep meditative state, we exist on just that tiny, natural, and scarce amount of energy.
A Heart Awakened
As I mentioned earlier, I returned to my position as an elemental demon, and everything remained as it was. But since my heart had already awakened, I became extremely sensitive to my surroundings. I could feel that this light would surely appear again.
There are many demon kings, demon children, and demon grandchildren—generations upon generations of descendants—who do not recognise me, and I have no need for them to do so. But I know that we are all part of the same lineage. As long as you have been part of that demon group, it is naturally stored within your and the fifty-one mental factors; this is something that cannot be hidden from old and ancient demons. One does not even need to look to feel whether the other party belongs to one's own lineage of demons. I can feel my demon crowds—my juniors—who are also densely packed, countless in number, passed down through the generations.
When the magic of that time had its own demon king, our lineage was passed down continuously to the demon children and grandchildren. Once the demon children and grandchildren became demon kings, they passed our lineage down further. Thus, one can see that the memory stored within this is immeasurable and boundless. I can even look at the smallest existing demon grandchild and know that he belongs to our lineage. This is the consciousness—its storage capacity is boundless.
The Call of the Buddha
It is my pride, in a way, to have created such a future for myself. But from another perspective, it is absolutely terrifying; all of this is the result of the laws of karma and cause and effect. Therefore, I eventually chose to live in isolation for a time, and I did not return to my demonic forces. When I returned to my position as an elemental demon, sure enough, the next wave of Buddha-light appeared. This was the light I had been searching for for seven thousand nine hundred and sixty trillion years!
However, the Buddha-light still swept past me, leaving me feeling somewhat disappointed. I was willing to follow the Buddha-light, so why did it leave me behind? Then, I heard a voice coming from the space where I, the elemental demon, existed—a voice so clear, so familiar, and yet from such a distant, ancient Buddha!
The Buddha called me 'Little Demon' again. That was the name I had seven thousand nine hundred and sixty trillion years ago. There are very few who would know it now; in fact, it had been a very, very long time since I had heard anyone call me 'Little Demon'. But when I heard that voice coming through, I never knew I could still have . After the voice reached me, I knelt down. The Buddha had appeared! I was so moved that I could not speak! The Buddha-light illuminated the entire space where I, the elemental demon, resided, which was quite vast. There were other elemental demons in this space as well. We did not bother one another, as there was no need or feeling between us. For three thousand trillion years, I had existed in that position as an elemental demon.
The Buddha said to me, 'Little Demon! Do you still remember the Buddha?' I had already knelt down, my eyes filled with tears that I could not stop from streaming down, and I nodded continuously.
The Buddha asked me, 'Why did I sweep past you twice without taking you with me? Do you know the reason?' I shook my head. At that moment, I was like an innocent child; in front of the Buddha, I had no need for any concealment—I was completely honest. It was a feeling of letting go and being accepted.
The Buddha asked me, 'Can you also read how many demon children and grandchildren you have?' I replied, 'Buddha, yes, I already know. My demon children and grandchildren are spread across almost a part of this Dharma Realm. The Dharma Realm is simply too vast.'
The Buddha nodded and said, 'Such a long period of time is but a blink of an eye to the Buddha. But for the Demon Realm, it is not a short period of time! These demon children and grandchildren need you to save them. If you do not appear, they will continue to reincarnated for who knows how many long kalpas. The Buddha does not know when or where I will appear next. Therefore, at this moment, you must gather them yourself; you must save them!'
The Path of
I asked the Buddha, 'Then what should I do?'
The Buddha said, 'You must step out of your own space. Stepping out of this space, of course, carries risks for an ancient demon. When you stir a thought or intention, the laws of karma and cause and effect also flow simultaneously; you may be found by them. However, if you can keep a heart of Goodness at all times, without a single evil thought, the laws of karma and cause and effect will not sync with you, and you can still continue to survive in the Demon Realm. Just as you, the elemental demon, entered into a deep meditative state for over three thousand trillion years without a single evil thought arising, the laws of karma and cause and effect could not find you either.'
I nodded. I understood what the Buddha meant. The Buddha wanted me to save my demon children and grandchildren and let them leave the Demon Realm. The Buddha nodded. But I would have to face the danger of being pulled away by the laws of karma and cause and effect. The Buddha nodded. Unless I did not stir even a single evil thought, the laws of karma and cause and effect would not be able to find me for the time being, and I could then save my demon children and grandchildren. The Buddha nodded. The Buddha said, 'You have quite a high level of .'
I asked the Buddha, 'Could you please teach me and help me? How can I manage to not stir even a single evil thought?' The Buddha said, 'Little Demon, if the Buddha tells you that from this moment on, you can only chant the six characters "Namo Amituofo" and cannot have a second thought, can you do it?'
I said to the Buddha, 'Buddha, I do not know if I can do it, but I am willing to try, because I have tasted the suffering of being a demon to the fullest. I hope my demon children and grandchildren can have the Buddha's light, the Buddha's compassion, and the Buddha's tolerance, and not live in darkness. Therefore, I am willing to bear all of this. Even if I accidentally stir a second thought and am found by the laws of karma and cause and effect, I must still save my demon children and grandchildren.'
The Buddha smiled and nodded, looking at me, and said, 'This is what is called compassion. Having this heart of compassion, this power, has already protected you.' My heart brightened at that moment. Ah, so this is what is called compassion.
The Buddha said, 'When you return to your original demonic forces, you will encounter the Buddha-light. That moment will be the time for you to save your demon children and grandchildren.' I nodded to the Buddha, thanking Him for giving me this opportunity to save my demon children and grandchildren after such a long, long time.
I remembered the Buddha saying just now that it was but a blink of an eye to Him. The Buddha said, 'Yes. To the Buddha, an infinitely long time and the blink of an eye in the present are the same; they can happen simultaneously.' I said, 'Buddha, I think I understand a little bit of what you said. Even though I am seven thousand nine hundred and sixty trillion years old, when I look back at the time when I was just a little demon, it feels as if it is happening right now in the present.' The Buddha said, 'Yes, that is exactly it.'
After I finished speaking, the Buddha reminded me once more: "Do you remember the six characters I just mentioned?" I replied that I had not forgotten them: "Namo Amituofo." The Buddha smiled and nodded: "You must also pass these six characters on to your demon kings, demon children, and demon grandchildren. Tell them all to remember 'Namo Amituofo.' As long as they remember 'Namo Amituofo' and chant it at any time, they will have a chance to leave the darkness and enter the light." I nodded in agreement.
Then, the Buddha gradually vanished from my sight, and the surroundings returned to darkness. However, I could feel the compassionate light of the Buddha enveloping me. I kept chanting "Namo Amituofo" continuously, not daring to forget the Buddha's teachings, unable to stop, just chanting. It was truly miraculous; when I chanted "Namo Amituofo," I had no other thoughts at all—there was only that single Buddha-name.
The Return to the Demon Realm
I left the space of the elemental demons and, in the next instant, returned to my own demon forces. There were densely packed demon crowds, each looking different, each with a different personality. I was so tiny, so small that they could barely perceive my existence, as I had not yet intended to return to my former appearance. Later, a sharp-eyed old demon noticed me; he sensed a different magnetic field appearing in the air. At that time, I was still chanting "Namo Amituofo" without a single stray thought. Yet, my form was already gradually returning to my original state. I became a massive demon, radiating a dark, brilliant demon-light that startled everyone. To the demon realm, this was the form of a very ancient demon. Under the influence of this old demon's transmission, many of the demon crowds were dumbfounded and quickly knelt down, as if an ancestor-demon had descended from the sky, just as if juniors were seeing their primordial ancestor appear from the void.
After they knelt, I did not say a single word. I used my mental note to project the six characters "Namo Amituofo." Every one of the demon crowds looked at these six characters. They did not understand the meaning manifested by these characters, but everyone saw them with absolute clarity. It was just as clear as when I was a little demon looking at the word "Buddha" left behind by the Buddha. Furthermore, I used my mental note to leave the six characters "Namo Amituofo" upon every single demon, allowing them to feel the existence of these six characters at any time. That was what I did at that moment. I did not speak a single word; my only thought was "Namo Amituofo."
The Fusion of Buddha-Light and Demon-Light
Not long after, the Buddha-light appeared once again. I knelt down and kept chanting the six-character great name, "Namo Amituofo." The Buddha's name! All the demons followed me and chanted along! Originally, in the dark void, light suddenly burst forth. This light came from the hearts of our demon crowds. At that moment, this heart-light merged with the Buddha-light. Within the Buddha-light, countless Buddhas appeared, each one smiling, each one radiating brilliance. Every Buddha held the hand of one of us demons; the Buddhas and demons merged together, and the Buddha-light and demon-light fused as one!
The moment we held hands, we entered the Western Land of Dharma Nature. It was incredibly fast, yet it was an absolutely inconceivable event. Looking at the demon crowds at that time, they were more numerous than the sky above the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre—my demon forces were everywhere. One can imagine how spectacular that scene was. It means that Practitioner Su's countless manifestations were so numerous, truly an infinite number of infinite manifestations. Because my demon crowds could not be counted in the billions; they were layered one upon another, beyond calculation.
When we were held by the hands of Practitioner Su, the very instant we touched, everyone entered the Western Land of Dharma Nature, which is where we reside now. So many demon crowds entered this place, yet for this realm, it remained the same—neither more nor less. This is truly inconceivable. It lets everyone know that the Western Land of Dharma Nature is a world of Dharma-nature. Dharma-nature has no boundaries.
The Inconceivable Nature of Practitioner Su
To be honest, based on our ability to absorb, once we came in and sat down, we could read the mental notes of every one of you. But we could not read Practitioner Su's heart. We understand the human heart very well—why? Because we can read their consciousness-notes. But Practitioner Su is no longer using consciousness-notes! His heart is a void, only a expanse of light, with nothing else. Practitioner Su says he does not know a single character, but in fact, although he does not know a single character, he understands all characters. This is what a Buddha is.
We can read the terms used in the Buddha's teachings and understand their meanings with ease. Of course, at this time, fourfold assembly, do you think the demon crowds do not know your every thought and intention? Let me tell you, it is effortless! Not only do we know, but we also know what you have been thinking about in the past and what you have done. These are all clearly visible in your eight consciousnesses and fifty-one mental factors. In this way, what could possibly be hidden from the demon crowds? If there are little demons who have just arrived, perhaps they do not understand yet, but for the demon children or demon kings, the eyes naturally see and the ears naturally hear; there is no need to specifically listen or not listen, look or not look.
Seeing Practitioner Su leading the fourfold assembly is very arduous work. Practitioner Su is, of course, clearly aware of your every move. Do you think Practitioner Su does not know your every thought and intention? Practitioner Su can wave his hand, and his countless manifestations can touch the hands of our demon crowds, bringing us to the Western Land of Dharma Nature! That is the Dharma Realm. If we speak in terms of spatial distance from the Earth, it is very, very far away! Yet, it can be reached in that very instant of touch. You tell me, how fast is Practitioner Su! This is why the Buddha said just now that seven thousand nine hundred and sixty trillion years of time can happen in a single glance. This is the Buddha's teaching.
The Path to Buddhahood
Therefore, I, Magic-Fusion, advise the fourfold assembly: there are too many things you cannot imagine with your thoughts that exist in the vastness of the Dharma Realm, exist between you and me, and even exist between the Buddha and the fourfold assembly. Demons do evil things; Buddhas do the work of saving demon crowds. Buddhas do the work of allowing demons to transform into Buddhas. We are now accepting transformation within the Buddha's compassionate light, and one day, we too can become Buddhas. Demons also have a true self. At the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre, every day we hear about the "true self." From Practitioner Su's Dharma talks, from the teachings of Amitabha Buddha, from the teachings of Teacher Practitioner Xia Lianju, or from Practitioner Su's explanations, we can all hear the two words "true self." And I believe that the demon crowds who are listening to the sutras and hearing the Dharma also know that they all have a true self.
This is why when the manifestation of Practitioner Su held the hands of the demon crowds, there was a resonance, and they entered the Western Land of Dharma Nature. This means that everyone knows to chant "Namo Amituofo," knows to chant the Buddha's name at the time of death, to invite the Buddha to appear before them, hoping that the Buddha will lead the spirit of the dying person into the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss, right? It is the same meaning! When the dying person sees Amitabha Buddha and steps onto the lotus pedestal, that very instant they arrive at the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss. Although your sutras say that the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss is ten trillion Buddha-lands away, distance is not a problem; it is reached in that very instant! It is reached in a flash! This concept of distance is how it is in the Buddha's teachings. I just mentioned the concept of an instant; it is the same in the Buddha's teachings, and I, Magic-Fusion, have encountered it.
At this time, I have turned my experiences into spoken language, and you have written them down into text to express them. This still requires some skill! In this way, my more than three thousand trillion years of entering samadhi were not spent in vain. Because when I want to say something, when I want to express something, I can use one or two words to bring it out. If I am like this, how much more so is the Buddha?
When I, Magic-Fusion, see the at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre, and the sky is filled with demon crowds coming to seek refuge, I feel joyful for them. I think to myself, "You are saved!" Because I know that Practitioner Su's infinite manifestations are about to appear, and together with the Buddha-light of Amitabha Buddha, they will illuminate the sky full of demon crowds coming to seek refuge. When Practitioner Su's hand holds the hand of a demon crowd seeking refuge, in the next instant, they also enter the Western Land of Dharma Nature. And the demon crowds touched by the Buddha-light enter the Western Land of Dharma Nature in an instant. This is an inconceivable event.
At this time, I, Magic-Fusion, have used this precious interview time to speak of these things. Why did I not reveal the demon-work I did in the previous four thousand trillion years? It has all become the past, painful memories of the past, all acts of extreme evil. Because I am now in the Western Land of Dharma Nature, I can express these things. In the position of an elemental demon, or before entering the Western Land of Dharma Nature while still in the Dharma Realm, one cannot have these thoughts. Once you have thoughts related to the past, the laws of karma and cause and effect begin to circulate, and you are doomed! You would become that one crushed under a great mountain with no one to save you.
The demon crowds of the Dharma Realm at this time are so blessed—their are beyond description—to be able to receive the Buddha's deliverance and enter the Western Land of Dharma Nature. In this world of the Buddha, there is only constant purification; there are no worries, no afflictions, and no need to fear that the laws of karma and cause and effect will come knocking. For the demon crowds, as long as they have a little bit of sense, they will know how rare this is, something that has never been encountered before. Because there has never been another person who attained Buddhahood in a human body and had such a great vow, capable of inviting Amitabha Buddha to descend into the human world to help Practitioner Su save so many demon crowds. In over seven thousand trillion years, I, Magic-Fusion, have never encountered this. Although my time in samadhi has been so long, as for the outside world, as long as I intend to look and think, I can know whether it has happened or not.
Namo Amituofo.
To be perfectly honest, I have now witnessed the several major shifts and great upheavals that have occurred within this space of the Dharma Realm, yet my position as an elemental demon remains entirely unaffected. Perhaps this is due to my own good fortune. Because in that very moment, amidst the great explosion of the entire Dharma Realm, many demon crowds let their thoughts and intentions run wild, and as a result, they were seized by the laws of karma and cause and effect. Some were shattered into pieces; this is what I see now. As I have said, if I do not intentionally focus, I know nothing, but once I do, I know everything. These matters are truly tragic and evil. I, Fa Rong, will stop here, just to let everyone know how magnificent it is to be able to reside at this pure and Good Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre, a true Buddha-land.
The Path to Accomplishment
I sincerely hope that every member of the fourfold assembly can attain accomplishment. As long as you let go of the past, and your heart in the present moment is one of obedience—listening to the words of Namo Amituofo, the words of Teacher Practitioner Xia Lianju, and the words of Practitioner Su—you can all be saved. Do not let yourselves be used by the demon crowds any longer! It is simply not worth it! Think about it—why would you trade your precious life for the fleeting influence of these beings?
Living in a World of Demons
For those outside the temple, they are being used without even realizing it. They mistakenly think that life is just like this—that birth, aging, sickness, and death are inevitable, and that there is no other way. Very few people can escape the demons of birth, aging, sickness, and death when they come knocking at their door. There is a demon of birth, a demon of aging, a demon of sickness, and a demon of death. The human world is truly living in a world filled with demons! Because the heart is in sync with these demons, they are able to use the human body to make people suffer. It is a cycle that never ends unless one finds the light.
A Blessing of Light
Let me offer a simple conclusion. I believe that every being in the Western Land of Dharma Nature hopes that the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre can shine its light upon the Earth, illuminating the heart of every being, allowing them to see the light, to chant the Buddha-name 'Namo Amituofo,' to reach the Western Land of Dharma Nature, and to enter the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss. This is our hope, and we extend this hope as a blessing to you all.
