This is a record of an interview with Mo Ke-gen, an ancient demon from the Milky Way with a history spanning three billion years. He sought deliverance at the Hsiang Kuang Buddhist Centre in Australia after being subdued by the Twelve Lights of Buddha-light. He now resides in the Western Land of Nature. This interview was recorded by the chief writer, Venerable HaiZe, on December 13, 2023.
Mo Ke-gen speaks:
". I am Mo Ke-gen, an ancient demon of the Milky Way. My tenure in the demon realm has lasted for three billion years. Those three billion years were incredibly rich in experience; I have encountered every imaginable scenario. Now, however, I find myself preferring a quiet life. Those grand, chaotic scenes of the past have become history. If I need to recall them, I can, but there is no need to dwell on them—reminiscing is an exhausting drain on one's energy. If I were to truly recount everything, it would be an endless, bottomless well of stories. Every event from these past three billion years is etched into my spirit.
Thirty Billion Years of Suffering
Many of these events feel like dreams, as if they happened just moments ago, yet in reality, they occurred billions of years ago. Regardless of the space we inhabit, the roles we play, or the identities we assume, is it not all the same? Who does not have a past? The past of every demon is spectacular, dramatic, and deeply heart-wrenching. It is filled with immense suffering—otherwise, why would anyone choose to become a demon? If I had to describe the past lives of a demon in one word, it would be 'suffering'.
In the Buddha’s teachings, this concept of suffering is seen with absolute clarity. The Buddha’s teachings exist precisely because they see the suffering of beings, and thus they come to save them and resolve that pain. Do the elders of the demon realm not know this? Of course we do. There is a saying: 'Know yourself and know your enemy, and you will be victorious in every battle.' If we understand the mindset of our opponent, it is easier to strike. We look for the gaps, the weaknesses, and prescribe the 'right medicine' to ensure victory. To achieve success while expending the least amount of energy and using the minimum amount of demonic power—that has always been my attitude and style of operation as Mo Ke-gen.
The Secret Weapon of Practitioner Su
However, this approach does not work against the Buddha. We cannot find any gaps in the Buddha, so we cannot exert our demonic power. We are forced to adopt the attitude of a Dharma protector—a cooperative stance—both to protect ourselves and to learn. The old and ancient demons who recognize the Buddha generally hold this attitude. To be honest, if we were to go head-to-head, the demon crowds would have no chance of winning. The power of the Buddha’s teachings is boundless, without limits. It changes according to the Buddha-heart and the Buddha-vows. Since the Buddha-heart and Buddha-vows have no bottom line, we cannot grasp them, and therefore, we cannot win.
Is this not exactly what happened with Practitioner Su’s subduing of the demon crowds? The methods change again and again; we do not know what will happen next. If the demon crowds are already in this state, what more can they do? I am stating the facts clearly so that the demon crowds who hear this can understand. After all, truly encountering a Buddha is not an easy task. Many demons have never met a Buddha, so I am taking this opportunity to tell them, to provide a chance for them to learn. Otherwise, once we go our separate ways, I will have no chance to share my experience. I know many demons are actually listening to Practitioner Su’s lectures, but they are afraid to admit it openly. If you can hear this, you should understand what I mean.
A World Turned Upside Down
Although I do not have many demon kings, demon children, and demon grandchildren, every one of them is an elite. I have always trained them to use their brains rather than brute force. Things done with brute force often end up harming oneself. A wise demon does not hurt himself; he achieves his goal with the minimum amount of power. That is enough; there is no need for grand, exhausting gestures. So, regarding Practitioner Su, if the result is already known, why continue to create ?
Look at Practitioner Su. There is only one of him. We do not want to explore how many more might appear, nor do we dare to think about it. In any case, there is currently this one Practitioner Su, and he has already turned the demon realm upside down. Why? Is it because every demon in the realm is empty-headed, allowing Practitioner Su to act this way? Of course not. The demon realm has survived as long as the Buddha for a reason. But why can Practitioner Su face the demon crowds alone—and these are immeasurable, boundless demon crowds from different spaces? We later learned that it is because Namo Amituofo is supporting him from behind. Wow! That is the secret recipe for Practitioner Su’s victory.
The Illusion of the Demon Kingdom
There is no second Namo Amituofo; no one can replace him. Although Namo Amituofo has countless manifestations, and his disciples can also be called Namo Amituofo or 'Wonderful Sound Tathagata'—we understand this, as it is written in the Infinite Life Sutra—we cannot show off our 'skills' before the Buddha. We only know a little bit. The 'Wonderful Sound Tathagatas' in the vastness of the Dharma Realm are countless. But the original Namo Amituofo is only one. Like Practitioner Su, he can have countless manifestations, but the original body is unique. The manifestations look exactly like the original, even moving the same way, which often confuses us. No matter how sharp a demon’s eyes are, they cannot tell which one is the real Practitioner Su. Yes, that is his attainment. Since the original Namo Amituofo is now residing at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre, this is a massive event! We should be shouting it from the rooftops, telling everyone, especially the so-called 'kind-hearted civilians.' Some kind-hearted people are bullied by demons; now they can pour out their grievances to the Buddha, and the Buddha will surely save them. In fact, the Buddha sees their suffering and knows exactly who is controlling them. Practitioner Su is the same. With the powerful assistance of Namo Amituofo, no one can say a word—we are truly convinced! This is the honest truth I speak now in the Western Land of Dharma Nature; every word is correct.
The Final Choice: Surrender
But this has made life very difficult for us in the demon realm. These days have been heart-wrenching. Demon children and grandchildren are disappearing one by one—disappearing in massive numbers. The demon kings are the same, and then we, the old and ancient demons, follow. How many demons are left? Honestly, we do not know. We have been confused by Practitioner Su; he has transformed the entire ecology of the demon realm. Perhaps this is the collective karma that this vast space was destined to encounter. It is not just the demons of the Milky Way; the demons of the universe and the Earth are likely in the same state. I watched them come in batches, only to be subdued, then another batch, and another. Each batch was led by a demon king into the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre, but they never returned. I watched and listened with them, holding on as long as I could. It was my duty to the demon realm to hold on until the very last breath.
I thought, since I was the one who led them into the demon realm, if I could send them out—watching them being sent by Practitioner Su into the Western Land of Dharma Nature—that would be a good ending. So, the number of demons I sent out was massive. Sometimes they covered the entire sky above the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre; sometimes, when Practitioner Su opened the window, he could see us. The number of demons in the morning sky outside that window was not small. But Practitioner Su is a practitioner with true attainment. Once his spirit leaves , he visualizes the Twelve Lights of Buddha-light. No matter where they go, I have yet to hear of any old or ancient demon who can withstand those Twelve Lights. Their fate is to be invited into the Western Land of Dharma Nature. It seems this matter can be concluded this way. Yet, the demon crowds are always preparing to attack Practitioner Su. If we demons of the Milky Way stop, we must look at the largest space—we are only the second-tier. The largest space is the universe, which contains many Milky Way spaces. The demons in the universe are talented, intelligent, and cunning.
Reflections on the
However, this time, no matter what personality a demon has, Practitioner Su accepts them all; he turns no one away. If we choose the path of surrender, it sounds simple, but it is not easy to actually step onto this path, especially for old and ancient demons! Some uninformed demons ask: 'I have so many habits; what will I do when I get there? There is nothing there, just a bright place. If I want this or that, and it cannot satisfy me, what then?' Another demon says: 'Brother, you don't understand. Do you not know what it means to have every wish fulfilled? As long as you think of it, the Dharma-Nature Land of the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre will satisfy you, just like the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss.' The demon then had an 'Aha!' moment: 'Ah, right! I was so focused on the immediate things that I forgot about that. Thank you for reminding me.' This is called having a brain. If you have a brain and do not stubbornly guard your own little piece of the sky, you can expand your territory—though there is no need to expand, as the original land is already large enough. In the Buddha’s teachings, this is called .
The appearance of Practitioner Su is either a blessing or a curse for the demon realm; we can see the general picture now. Thinking positively, it is of course good. Once you reach the Dharma-Nature Land, you cannot return to the demon realm; you must sit obediently on a lotus seat. But strangely, like me now, sitting on a lotus seat, I can move however I want, but I cannot leave this position. This is the power of the Buddha’s teachings. Sitting here, even if you do not want to sit, you must sit; even if you do not want to listen, you must listen; even if you do not want to look, you can see. Unless you close your eyes and cover your ears, your heart seems to see and hear everything clearly. I can see the endless stream of demons coming to the temple; in different spaces, there are still many demons casting magic to attack Practitioner Su’s body. Why are they following in our footsteps?
It seems Practitioner Su is truly busy. Being so busy without stopping, how could he not want to rest? This is something we admire. If it were me, I might have raised the white flag and surrendered, thinking: 'Why are there so many demons? I don't have the ability or patience to keep messing with you. Forget it, do as you please.' If Practitioner Su did that, it would be exactly what we demons want! Everyone would be happy, and the consequence might be that the fourfold assembly of the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre, and even Practitioner Su himself, would be successfully attacked by us. Hahaha! If we were covered in our demon children, grandchildren, and demon kings, Practitioner Su might not be able to hold on even with several demon kings, and even if old or ancient demons entered, they might not be able to suppress Practitioner Su. At that time, the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre would become our territory—that would make things easy! Of course, Namo Amituofo would not stand for it and would return to the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss. Then our demon realm would have another base on Earth to practice our magic. Of course, we would do it secretly and skillfully, so other practitioners would not discover that we are demons. We would do things that meet everyone’s needs and fulfill their wishes—we could give you whatever you want. Many people want a healthy body; we could just grab the on them and lock them up. How could there be a Western Land of Dharma Nature to go to? There is no such thing! We cannot send people anywhere, so locking them up is faster. That works too; the patient does not know where the karmic creditors went. For the patient, the most important thing is that their illness is gone. Once we grab the karmic creditors, isn't the patient cured? This effect spreads from one person to another, and eventually, everyone comes here, and this place becomes our base for propaganda. It is called the Buddha’s teachings, but in fact, it is the promotion of magic. Why can’t people see it?
Because we teach everyone to be 'good'! We tell you to be filial and to chant Namo Amituofo; we know how to chant, and we teach everyone. But no matter how you chant, you cannot reach the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss because your heart cannot achieve 'one-mindedness.' We always have a way to hook your heart and make you think only of yourself. Sigh! Everything I just said is a beautiful dream I once had. Or, being interviewed now, I can construct such a demon kingdom at any time. If that were the case, this place would have great potential, and I believe it would become a major base for us demons on Earth. People’s lives would be under our control.
Everyone thinks they are living a happy life, but in reality, once they pass away, they are very likely to go to the hells. This is what we love to do, so the karma created by demons in the past is immense. However, the above is purely fictional; this is impossible. Through our observation of Practitioner Su during this time, we have learned his methods of subduing demons. This method can be used in other bodhimandas because they cannot see the methods of the demons; their understanding of demons is not as thorough as Practitioner Su’s, and they do not have the power to subdue demons. Actually, I will not hide it from you: many bodhimandas have already become like this. I am not fear-mongering; this is the fact! But because of this, it is even more difficult to get everyone to admit that the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre is where the Buddha resides!
If we say a few words inside, the believers will naturally believe it and keep their distance. Who would dare to enter? A place that is originally the Buddha’s land is called a demon land by us, and a place that is originally a demon land is thought by everyone to be the Buddha’s land. This is the opposite of the truth; this is what demons do, and this is the current situation on Earth. Although I am in the Milky Way, I have demon children and grandchildren on Earth, so I still come over to take a look. Therefore, the situation I describe is not far from the truth; in fact, this is the truth. This is why the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre, where Namo Amituofo resides, has so few people entering, and why monastics are even rarer. This is also why, even though so many demons have been subdued here, so many more still come to find Practitioner Su, making him dizzy and confused, never stopping—with pain in his shoulders and heaviness in his legs. After all, he has a physical body.
Our magic can fly through the sky and burrow into the earth, penetrating everywhere. Moreover, we have to concentrate a lot of demonic power to make Practitioner Su feel it. This is a huge energy drain for us, but there is no choice; to maintain the survival of the demon realm, we have to do it.
Having said this, you now know the current situation on Earth: the extent of the demon invasion has reached a certain level. After all, the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas are so compassionate. The biggest factor is that Earth is a planet with great and can receive the help of the Buddha’s power. The so-called Buddha’s power is not just Namo Amituofo; it also includes Practitioner Su. So, some demons weigh their own weight and realize: 'Forget it, don't continue,' and choose the path of surrender. I, Mo Ke-gen, also thought about it, but one always has to try, right? Try to see if we can hold on, if we can break through. As long as there is even a tiny chance, success is possible. The facts prove that every time I sent someone out, not one returned. That is how I know the Buddha will not harm beings. If the Buddha cannot bear to see beings suffer, how could he harm them? However, if a being does not have enough blessings and is destined to perish, the Buddha can do nothing; if the blessings are sufficient, the Buddha can help. This is something we understand. So, if we want to control people, we make them exhaust their blessings. Once a person has no blessings, it is easy for a series of evil things to happen.
This time, I also thought that at my age, trying to reorganize the demon realm is truly exhausting. The empire I once built has been destroyed, subdued by Practitioner Su, and mostly wiped out. What can be kept, I keep; what cannot, I find another way to survive. I do not object. So this time, I used my demonic power—the energy accumulated over these three billion years is not small. I used my full power to attack Practitioner Su’s two knees. Not many demons can see this old injury, but I can see his foundation—the most original state of those knees. Practitioner Su’s knees should have ceased to exist long ago, but because Practitioner Su performed Buddha-work to transform karma, these knees also transformed. Now he can still walk and jump. Although his strength is a bit weak, compared to others of the same age, it is much better. I used all my demonic power to attack his knees, trying to make his original old injuries or the pain that should have appeared manifest. Sure enough, I still have some skills; I made his knees hurt. However, I was also sent into the Western Land of Dharma Nature by the Twelve Lights and Practitioner Su’s sounding of the qing. In fact, not only was I casting magic from the outside, but I also woke up some ancient beings inside his knees, asking them to help out. They didn't need to do anything, just wake up; waking up is enough to have an effect.
Beings inside a person’s body have this function. Wherever there are beings, wherever there is activity, that body is basically not in good shape. Sure enough, Practitioner Su’s knees hurt, and I wanted to laugh. Even so, the things Practitioner Su has to do are not reduced at all; in fact, he does even more, subduing demons even more fiercely, making our eyes unable to keep up, and we had no choice but to surrender.
Therefore, Practitioner Su’s heart is our greatest enemy. As long as his heart has even the slightest thought of retreating from us demons, we have the opportunity to stir up demonic winds. This is not because we do not know what is good for us, but because we must seize every opportunity to attack Practitioner Su. As long as that opportunity succeeds, it is the people’s loss. We would make the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre a base for the demon realm in the shortest possible time. In this sense, I am probably not the only one with this idea. But now that I have been subdued, this idea is shattered, reset to zero. It is no longer up to me, so we shall wait and see. We will see how Practitioner Su acts, and we will cooperate accordingly. You could say we have taken a big step back. Taking this step is something Practitioner Su deserves because he has the ability to subdue demons. Currently, there is only Practitioner Su, and I have never met a Buddha who would subdue demons on such a large scale. It is also because a Buddha with a physical body appeared and made such a great vow to subdue demons that Namo Amituofo could help. It can be said that this has brought about a great transformation for the demon realm.
Mo Ke-gen
The Buddha gave Mo Ke-gen the Dharma name 'Shi Cheng-fa'.
Shi Cheng-fa (Mo Ke-gen) shares his thoughts on participating in the Thrice Yearning Ceremonies:
The most important thing after arriving in the Western Land of Dharma Nature is to see what actually happens during the Thrice Yearning Ceremonies. Here, it is seen clearly. From the moment Practitioner Su feels the demons' attacks until the Twelve Lights of Buddha-light that subdue the demons take effect, and the situation of each being sent to the Dharma-Nature Land—it is all seen clearly. I can only say that the old saying 'The Way is a foot high, the demon is a yard high' must now be changed to 'The demon is only a yard high, but the Buddha is infinitely high!' The Buddha is still as compassionate as before, and now with the addition of Practitioner Su, it is equivalent to two Namo Amituofos. How can we demons withstand that? For me, Mo Ke-gen, to say such things is equivalent to giving the demons who have been sent here a way to step down. You are not Practitioner Su’s opponent, and I, Mo Ke-gen, am not Practitioner Su’s opponent either. Practitioner Su does not want to be the demon crowds' opponent; he only wants to help the demon crowds surrender, stop doing evil, and stop hurting people. Is that right? Practitioner Su, what I said makes sense, right?
You truly save every being, even the very subtle beings that the eyes cannot see. You have saved them, and they have left this space and no longer suffer. Every time, you save immeasurable and boundless beings. Looking closer, your heart does not move at all. This is something I need to learn. When I encounter things, I still move my heart a little bit. As you said, moving the heart is bad, and in the end, I will suffer. However, the objects we currently move our hearts toward are Practitioner Su and Namo Amituofo, which is safe because both are Buddhas and will not hold it against us.
Here, I, Mo Ke-gen, issue a call to all the demons I know, or the demons who belong to my sphere of influence in the demon realm. Everyone, go find your own way! Since I am no longer there, what is the point of your existence? The previous spiritual guidance was provided by me to help everyone. Now that I am no longer there, no longer in the demon realm, those who want to leave can leave, those who want to surrender can surrender, and those who want to attack or cast magic are following in my footsteps. But I advise you not to create any more karma! In our usual magic education, we rarely tell everyone about cause and effect because we are afraid that everyone will lose their resolve. Now that I am here, there is no need to hide it. Everything you have said and done in the past was not good; it was all bad, all demonic. How can you turn over a new leaf? Fortunately, if you enter the Western Land of Dharma Nature, it is possible to transform your karma and turn over a new leaf. That is what I heard Practitioner Su say. Is it true? You will know once you enter.
Alright, I, Mo Ke-gen, will stop here. Gratitude, gratitude to the Buddha!
