The Difference Between Having a Body and Being Without One

This interview was recorded on August 16, 2022, at the Western Dharma-Nature Land of the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre in Australia. Venerable Master Chin Kung, who sought deliverance through the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre, shares his insights on the nature of existence after death.

Venerable Master Chin Kung speaks:

"Namo Amituofo. Today, we shall discuss the difference between 'having a body' and 'being without a body.' This is a topic that Namo Amituofo suggested I speak about. If I were to discuss this while I still possessed a physical body—that is, while I was still alive—I would not be able to speak as openly or as truthfully as I can now. While it is perfectly fine to discuss the physical body while living, one's understanding remains incomplete without having passed through the gateway of death. Now that I am without a body, I am better equipped to explain the issue of death in a more comprehensive manner. I touched upon this briefly yesterday, so let us continue from there."

The Eternal Nature of the Spirit

"To be clear about this matter of being 'without a body': the spirit is neither born nor destroyed. Whether it is any being in the universe, who has not been without a body? Who has not had a body? Since time immemorial, throughout countless lifetimes, in this world and others, across the universe, the Milky Way, the six realms of rebirth, and every country on Earth—regardless of language, skin colour, or location—this spirit has reincarnated countless times. You have likely been a resident of every place, living there, only you have forgotten. You only remember the events of this current lifetime, and sometimes, you even forget the things that happened earlier in this very life, do you not? How much more so, then, for the events of the countless lifetimes since time immemorial? Naturally, those are impossible to recall."

"However, these events have never vanished. They all exist within our consciousness, stored deep within the Alaya consciousness. The files stored by each person might be so vast that even the void of space could not contain them. Is that not terrifying? Therefore, who would dare claim they have not visited any of the six realms of rebirth in their past lives? Many have even visited the most miserable hells. Why do I dare to say this? Beyond what I have learned from the scriptures, I can now see—with the eyes of a spirit—that the consciousness of every being contains the memories of hell."

The Value of the Physical Form

"Regarding the state of being without a body, those who have not yet died generally cannot comprehend that world. Thus, the topic Namo Amituofo has given me is truly perfect. Having read so many books, sutras, and treatises while I was alive, I now have the opportunity to verify some of these truths from the perspective of the afterlife—that is, from the state of being without a body."

"'My great affliction is that I have a body.' This famous saying by Laozi resonates deeply with many who have suffered the pains of the physical form. Everyone agrees with this statement. However, do not forget that many things can only be accomplished while one possesses a body. This is what it means to 'use the false to cultivate the true.' There are so many things one can do with a body—some things are beneficial, while others are not. This world is becoming increasingly complex, the human heart is becoming harder to fathom, and one is becoming less and less able to master one's own destiny. Therefore, never forget that at this time, Buddhist education is needed more than ever."

The True Practice of Practitioner Su

"Buddhist education is absolutely not an outdated relic; it is the 'technology of technologies.' The reason people mistake it for superstition, or think it is disconnected from the present because it discusses the ancients, is that there are too few practitioners today who possess both true practice and virtue. This is a source of shame for me. In reality, beyond the well-known venerable masters, there are others who are unknown to the public—people who are not recognised by the masses but are silently doing the work. They are masters who possess true practice, virtue, and realisation. These masters do not come out to meet the public; they simply and silently perform tasks that are unknown yet profoundly important. The person I am referring to is Practitioner Su."

"Although I once criticised him, he relies on his firm faith in Namo Amituofo—a one-hundred-percent faith. He relies on his awakened true nature, which allows him to see the true world that others cannot. He relies on his sense of responsibility toward all beings and his heart of gratitude toward Namo Amituofo and the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas. Because of this, he has silently worked with Namo Amituofo to save and deliver beings from the ghost realm and the other six realms, as well as sages from the Four Sacred Realms and beings from different dimensions. He has even projected his Dharma Body into the Milky Way to deliver those beings into the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss. He has also transformed and subdued immeasurable and boundless demonic beings. They have now left the Demon Realm, entered the Buddha's path, and become members of the salvation team led by Namo Amituofo and Practitioner Su. Such a combination is unprecedented."

The Responsibility of Saving the World

"The reason I praise Practitioner Su is that he now possesses an awakened spirit. His body is still in the human world, and not only has he awakened while alive, but his body is also autonomous and not subject to control. Furthermore, he can act according to this awakened spirit, and he does only one thing: the work of saving the world and delivering beings. This is a monumental task. If one does not truly understand the universal principles, the Truth, and the Right Way, and if one is not an awakened being who can distinguish between Buddha and demon, between right and wrong, one cannot shoulder the responsibility of saving the world and delivering beings."

"Today, with the demonic path at the forefront, Buddhism is struggling to maintain its footing. If someone asks why I place Buddhism behind the demonic path, it is because if this were not the case, why are there so many practitioners in the world who cannot live out the true spirit and essence of the Buddha's teachings—realising one's true nature? This includes myself; I, too, was once a target controlled by the Demon Realm."

The Five Roots of Hell

"When one has a body, it brings many 'added values'—what worldly people call wealth, sex, fame, food, and sleep. These are the five roots of hell, and that is indeed the truth. These added values now turn around to control people, and the demon crowds are thus able to seize upon everyone's weaknesses. These things violate the universal principles; they are not the Truth, nor are they the Right Way. Therefore, they can be utilised by the Demon Realm to control both the body and the spirit, preventing people from accepting kind advice, the nourishment of the Buddha's teachings, or causing them to give up halfway, or to withdraw due to misunderstanding. Perhaps their good roots, blessings, and causal conditions are not yet sufficient, or perhaps they have not encountered a true spiritual friend, while their Greed, Anger, Ignorance, Arrogance, and Doubt continue to grow and sprout. Naturally, they drift further and further away from the Right Way, and they easily fall into demonic paths."

The Invisible Killer of Modern Society

"In today's society, there is a vague, dark area of unease in the hearts of the masses that is difficult to articulate clearly. Even those with good expressive abilities can perceive it, but they often cannot find a way to truly save everyone, or even save themselves. There are many feelings that cannot be clearly explained or grasped, with invisible pressure and pain accumulating, leading to the problems of depression and bipolar disorder that many people suffer from today."

"This problem is an invisible killer in modern society! Depression and bipolar disorder are not only problems for those with bodies; they are also problems for many ghost realm beings who are without bodies. In the past, people's hearts were simple and pure; they knew how to be grateful and were able to endure hardship. Through their actions, they could reflect upon themselves and empathise with the hardships of others. But today's children are too well-off; they have not endured hardship, and food, clothing, housing, and transportation come too easily. Or, they are spoiled by their parents, thinking it is natural, and as a result, they do not know how to be grateful. They do not understand that every drink and every meal is not only due to the grace of our ancestors but also the hard work of our elders who cultivated and passed these things down. It is only because of them that we have a life of abundance today, yet everyone has lost the most fundamental heart of gratitude. This has become a universal phenomenon and a major problem in current society. I saw this long ago."

The Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre

"This matter must be addressed from the human heart, from the fundamental education—the Buddha's education. It requires that this education be passed down, and it requires everyone to work together. If you do a little and I do a little, not only is the strength scattered, but sometimes you may go astray without even knowing it. Therefore, Namo Amituofo is now at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre, and having Namo Amituofo lead everyone is the best possible arrangement. Namo Amituofo is the Universal Buddha; he sees everything in the Dharma Realm and the void—past, present, and future—at a glance! Now that Namo Amituofo has come to the human world and is currently at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre to help and lead everyone, this is the most secure path possible!"

"Following the methods Namo Amituofo has taught everyone will yield inconceivable results. Every word and sentence in the Infinite Life Sutra is a treasure. Following what is written therein will lead to incredible gains. These things are currently being carried out at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre. One must have a body to do these things: without a body, not only can you not do these things, but you must rely on the help of others; you cannot master your own destiny. Many spirits drift like light smoke; what can they do? They can only follow the annotations made by the Yama kings in the Hall of Yama regarding their past deeds and live out their next life accordingly. Therefore, everyone must seize the opportunity to practice while you still have a body in this life, so that you may liberate yourself from birth and death, avoid falling into the six realms of rebirth, and be reborn in the Western Pure Land."

The Urgency of Rebirth

"Vowing to be reborn in the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss is something I have been promoting for sixty years. Yet, when it came to the most important task—entering the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss at the time of death—I not only failed to do it, I did not do it well. Everyone must be cautious and careful! Fortunately, Namo Amituofo is currently at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre, and Practitioner Su is also there. They can save everyone and complete this task. Everyone must cherish this causal condition; it is difficult to encounter in millions of years!"

"Many spirit realm beings who no longer have bodies must rely on Dharma assemblies for deliverance. The Thrice Yearning Ceremonies provide everyone with the opportunity to chant Namo Amituofo, enter the Buddha-light, and enter the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss. This is only possible because Namo Amituofo is present. Without Namo Amituofo, how could you enter the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss? Spirits without bodies, no matter how they pray or what they do, cannot reach the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss. This is the true situation that I have seen."

The Importance of Practice

"The time a human body exists in the world is limited; this is the preciousness of life. In this short lifetime, if you find the direction you rely on in your heart, you must head straight toward it; there is not much time to hesitate. Many people are searching for the Truth and the Right Way; here, you can know what the Truth is and what the Right Way is. Even if you know, if you do not practice it with your body, it is nothing more than empty talk; you will not receive its benefits. This is something one must pay attention to."

"People today react well, have quick minds, and speak fluently, but how many are truly down-to-earth, taking it step by step? How many have true cultivation skills? If you wait until you have no body, until you are without a form, to reflect and repent, it will be too late. This body is not something you can have just because you want it. If you do not practice the Five Precepts and Ten Virtues while alive, you will not have a body in your next life."

The Truth About Eating Meat

"May I ask everyone, how many of the Five Precepts and Ten Virtues have you practiced? 'As long as the heart is good, that is enough'—that is a sentence many people often say when they meet those who study Buddhism. 'Why go to such trouble to practice, to keep precepts, to not eat non-vegetarian food? As long as the heart is good, that is enough.' You are wrong! A good heart is the most basic requirement, but if your heart is good and you do not act correctly, you will still suffer evil consequences. If you accept Buddhist education, you will know that the meat-based beings you consume all once had human bodies and spirits. Because they did not accumulate goodness or cultivate blessings while alive, they were reincarnated as animals after death—these are the very meat-based beings that people consume. Retribution is inevitable; today you eat them, but you must be careful in the future—you may have the opportunity to fall into becoming the contents of someone else's stomach!"

Protecting Yourself Through Precepts

"I will also briefly discuss the matter of keeping precepts. This is not aimed only at practitioners or monastics, because they have the awareness in this regard and understand that this is important and are willing to abide by it. In fact, precepts are meant to protect everyone from doing things that violate universal principles, the Truth, and the Right Way, and to prevent you from suffering evil retribution. Everyone should abide by them, but everyone's personality, habits, daily routines, and environment have led to biases in the understanding of these precepts, and some even reject or feel repulsed by them. This is a great harm to oneself."

"You must know that not keeping the precepts does not damage the precepts at all, but it has a great deal to do with your own karmic conditions and retribution. Those who break the precepts will suffer and endure punishment. The intensity of this suffering and punishment varies according to the offender's understanding, but in terms of universal principles, the Truth, and the Right Way, you will not be exempt from retribution just because you did not know about these precepts. There will still be evil consequences, and that is all suffering! Buddhist education, the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas, and the ancestral masters have painstakingly passed down many sutras and treatises to tell everyone this, hoping that everyone will not repeat the same mistakes, hoping that everyone will understand and avoid creating sin and transgression. The saying 'Bodhisattvas fear the cause, while beings fear the result' is a true statement."

"Those who truly possess wisdom know not to create these negative causes, and naturally, they will not receive the fruit of suffering. However, people often ignore the 'cause' and wait until they suffer, only then understanding that it is retribution. By then, it is already late; but it is not too late, as long as the body is still there, nothing is too late. If you do not have a body, then it is truly too late; you cannot do anything, and you can only let that spirit suffer the retribution."

Finding the True Self

"In this world, everyone lives a different life because everyone's heart is different. Can you find two hearts that are exactly the same? It is difficult. Only by studying Buddhism and practicing can you find your true self. This 'true self' is what everyone possesses; it is a world of coolness, ease, constant joy, true self, and purity. It is the world I yearn for, and it is the goal of practitioners."

"The true self must be sought within. Only with a body can you find the true self. By relying on this body to practice and temper yourself, you can reveal the true self hidden deep in your heart—the original face you had before your parents were born. This is what everyone possesses. When that time comes, everyone will live a life of coolness and ease, free from constraints and able to master their own destiny. Practitioners must move toward this direction."

The Rarity of Awakening

"However, everyone knows in their hearts that in this age of the Dharma’s decline, being able to realise one's true nature is truly not an easy task; it is rare. Many practitioners travel across mountains and rivers, yet they remain lost in confusion, unable to find their true self. One lifetime passes, life ends, and in the next life, one does not know which realm they will fall into. When they study Buddhism again, they start over, study Buddhism again, practice again, and still have to find the true self. Whether they find it or not is a problem. If you find it, congratulations, you have become a Buddha; if you do not find it, you continue to reincarnate."

"Currently, at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre, everyone knows Practitioner Su. He also served at the Pure Land societies for a period of time, so some of the 'Wu' generation practitioners know him; at that time, everyone called him Practitioner Su. Now, even I have to call him 'Su Fo' (Buddha Su), because his conduct is truly the Buddha-heart and Buddha-actions. To be able to perform Buddha-actions, one must have the Buddha-heart and Buddha-vows."

"I once said that when Buddhas and Bodhisattvas manifest in the human world, they do not expose their identity. That was during the periods of the True Dharma and the Semblance Dharma. In this era, with the current social situation and historical background, it is difficult to distinguish between right and wrong, and between Buddha and demon. Since he can be called a Buddha, that is even better; it allows everyone to see clearly whether this is true. If it is not, then he has committed a great transgression by making such a boast; this is no ordinary sin! If he has truly realised his true nature and attained Buddhahood, then that is extraordinary! To have a Buddha residing in the human world, manifesting in a human body to attain the Buddha's path, practicing until he realises his true nature and achieves the Buddha-fruit—to have such a Buddha exist in the human world at this time, at this moment, and for him to be someone we know—if you do not come to find the Buddha, whom will you find?"

A Rare Opportunity

"The so-called 'eight difficulties' include 'before or after the Buddha.' When you are born, the Buddha has not yet appeared in the world, or you are born after the Buddha has entered Parinirvana, and you have no opportunity to hear the True Teachings, let alone practice to attain the Buddha's path. Looking at it this way, Namo Amituofo has come to the human world at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre, and the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre has Su Fo, who has realised his true nature, leading everyone on how to realise their true nature, leading everyone in practice, living a life in accordance with universal principles, the Truth, and the Right Way, and even more, leading everyone to be reborn in the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss. Is this not an opportunity difficult to encounter in millions of years? Those who truly understand the Buddha's teachings should be able to understand this!"

"Moreover, the two words 'Su Fo' were not said by Practitioner Su himself! Even in the teachings of Namo Amituofo and the teachings of Teacher Practitioner Xia Lianju, he is referred to as 'Su Fo.' So, is it not appropriate for everyone to call him 'Su Fo'? That is fine; many people insist, 'True Buddhas and Bodhisattvas do not boast that they are Buddhas!' Yes, that is all according to karmic conditions. If there are karmic conditions, save them; if there are no karmic conditions, then we shall see. Perhaps when the karmic conditions connect, there will still be an opportunity to save them. Now that he is called Su Fo, it is so clearly telling everyone that there is a Buddha here. As for whether to draw near to the Buddha and study Buddhism, it depends on everyone's own destiny. If you can do it, do it; if you cannot, then follow the karmic conditions."

The Importance of Purification

"There are many interview records here of ancestral masters who have already been reborn in the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss. This sounds unbelievable, but these things were never things that ordinary people could do. To realise one's true nature and open up space can be said to be the blessing of the Buddha's power or the opportunity created by this environment. Regardless of the reason, purification is the most important condition. Only after the body has been purified can the roots of the six senses be revealed, and naturally, one can do things that ordinary people cannot do. This is a very natural thing."

"What is revealed in one's instinct is the ability one originally possessed, now expressed for the sake of saving the world and delivering beings. This is not 'strange powers and chaotic spirits'; how can such instinctive things be called 'strange powers and chaotic spirits'? Therefore, I was wrong before! I was wrong! We should respect this ability and praise it. After all, realising one's true nature is not an easy task. That is the correct way."

"Many things cannot be seen clearly until you reach this stage, and it is easy to speak wrongly without knowing it. This also incurs karmic retribution! Reaching this stage means having no body; only after death can one see the past and future clearly. How many ghost realm beings and spirit realm beings have regrets because of this, only able to repent for the past, unable to return to the past? The past is already past, and no one can start over. Fortunately, I still have the opportunity to clarify things now, which can be considered atoning for my past sins."

Final Counsel

"Chant Namo Amituofo! Everyone, chant Namo Amituofo diligently. When you chant, do not chant an 'empty Buddha'! The so-called 'empty Buddha' means you only know you should chant, but you have not changed your personality. You are still greedy, still love to get angry, still do foolish things, are arrogant, think you are better than others, know more than others, are higher than others, are suspicious, and find it difficult to accept the correct views of others, instead doubting them. Greed, Anger, Ignorance, Arrogance, and Doubt are the great harms that hurt yourself, interfere with yourself, and obstruct yourself! Therefore, you must work very hard and diligently to change your Greed, Anger, Ignorance, Arrogance, and Doubt; do not let them go in one ear and out the other. It is not that 'it is fine if you change, and it does not matter if you do not.' You are wrong! It matters a great deal if you do not change; these are the five roots of hell. This means that if you still have even a little bit of Greed, Anger, Ignorance, Arrogance, and Doubt, you are likely to create the causes for suffering in hell and receive the bitter fruit of falling into hell!"

"If those who have karmic conditions to hear me say these words are also people who chant Namo Amituofo and know me, then listen to my counsel: honest chanting is very important, very important. But you must change your personality, and you must resolve the conflicts with the karmic creditors within your body, allowing them to leave suffering behind, be reborn in the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss, and obtain the opportunity for deliverance. This matter is too important. This is something I neglected when I was alive and had a body. Having a body is the time before death, and being without a body is the time after death; this is a process that every human being with a body must experience. Now, I, who am without a body after death, tell everyone this, hoping that I can still make up for some of my mistakes."

"Alright, let us stop here for today. Namo Amituofo."

Shi Jingkong, with palms joined,

At the Western Dharma-Nature Land of the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre, Australia

August 16, 2022, 10:31 AM