This is a record of an interview with Venerable Master Chin Kung, who now resides in the Western Land of Nature. This account reflects upon the life and service of Lay Practitioner Hu Nini, a key figure in the propagation of the school. Recorded by the chief writer, Shi Haize, on November 9, 2022.
Venerable Master Chin Kung speaks:
". Today, I wish to continue with the topic assigned to me by Namo Amituofo: 'Disciples.' The next individual I wish to discuss is Lay Practitioner Hu Nini. Within the Pure Land system, she is a name known to all. She is deeply respected by everyone, for she was a pillar of the Pure Land school—a great Dharma protector who contributed her wealth, her labour, her time, and her spirit without reservation.
She worked silently behind the scenes, accomplishing a great deal for the benefit of all listeners. This was especially true regarding the distribution of Dharma treasures, the coordination of personnel, the selection of event venues, and even the management of the substantial monthly administrative expenses. Every Dharma treasure was presented to the public in the most efficient and effective manner, ensuring that the needs of all beings were met. This heart of hers was a heart that truly cared for all beings."
The Vital Role of Dharma Protectors
"To propagate the Buddha's teachings, one must have sufficient Dharma affinity. This affinity includes the connection between the Dharma protectors and the believers. As the saying goes, 'Propagation and protection are equally important.' We need talented individuals to teach the Dharma, but we also require the support of Dharma protectors to ensure that the teachings can be spread far and wide. Living in this world, it is a harsh reality that many things cannot be accomplished without financial resources. Furthermore, there are countless tasks, both large and small, that require meticulous handling.
Whether it is the smooth execution of an event, a Dharma assembly, the provision of vegetarian meals, the distribution of Dharma treasures, or even the presentation of lectures by myself and other great masters of the Pure Land school—all of this is made possible by the silent, dedicated efforts of monastics, lay practitioners, and volunteers. Most people simply enjoy the fruits of this labour. When you see my image, or when a Dharma treasure is placed in your hands—or perhaps you find a specific book that resonates with you and you are free to take it home without charge—you must realise that these are not simple matters. Whether it is the high-quality binding, the font size, the proofreading, the logistics of transport, or the convenience of carrying these items, every minute detail is the result of the collective effort of Dharma protectors, lay practitioners, and volunteers who have given their time, money, and energy. We must be grateful to them; we must hold a heart of deep gratitude!"
The Burden of Service
"For those of us who propagate the Dharma, without the help of Dharma protectors and lay practitioners, how could we stand on the podium and speak freely? How could we report on our own practice or our progress in diligent , allowing others to understand the preciousness of the Buddha's teachings and learn from them? For the Pure Land school, the ultimate goal is to help everyone make the vow and successfully achieve rebirth in the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss.
Those who lecture on the Sutras must be able to explain profound truths in simple terms. They must observe the situation and needs of the audience on-site, adjusting the content of their lectures according to the number of people and the nature of the listeners. Of course, there must be a central theme to develop, conveying the teachings that the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas wish to impart. At the same time, we must provide practical Dharma that can be applied to self-cultivation, group cultivation, daily life, and the health of and mind. This allows everyone to settle their hearts, gain practical benefits, and receive real Dharma benefits. This is of the utmost importance.
The various achievements of a lecturer are absolutely not something that can be accomplished by one person alone. This includes the assistance of Dharma protectors for food, clothing, housing, and transportation during periods of diligent practice. If there were no Dharma protectors, and one had to handle every single task personally, it would be impossible to practise well! Monastics do not handle money; once one becomes tainted by money, one cannot be diligent. However, if there is no offering and you have to manage everything yourself, it is truly exhausting. Of course, one can also gain awakening and insights from the process of managing these affairs to aid one's practice, but regardless, practice still requires constant settling and purification. Only in an environment free from disturbance can one truly face oneself and focus on the Sutras or the current lesson without distraction. This is the natural manifestation that continues until one realises one's true nature. This entire process is the process of practice."
The Path of True Cultivation
"Therefore, people should truly be respectful toward practitioners. Even a little novice will one day become a great talent—a lecturer of the Dharma. It is not that lecturers have a higher status; that is a mistake! The monastics who lecture on the Dharma must be even more humble and modest, because being able to spread the Pure Land teachings is absolutely not something that one person can achieve alone. This is something I have always emphasised. I tell my disciples that behind the scenes, there are countless Dharma protectors, lay practitioners, and volunteers who are silently helping everyone, settling many affairs so that we do not have to worry about food, clothing, or daily necessities. Therefore, monastics must cherish the time they have for pure cultivation. When your skills are perfected, you must use these skills to save beings from suffering and guide them to rebirth in the Western Pure Land. In this process, the role of the Dharma protector is essential.
Lay Practitioner Hu Nini held a key position in this regard. She led the lay practitioners and volunteers in completing many tasks. This involved extremely complex discussions and meticulous attention to detail, all of which she took upon her own shoulders. This is truly ! Furthermore, one must also possess wisdom. She contributed both money and effort, and she constantly had to consider whether any aspect of the work was insufficient, adjusting it immediately. There were so many tasks, and many decisions relied on her. It was truly hard work for her."
"Here, I, Chin Kung, say to you sincerely: thank you! It has been a long time—twenty years, has it not? It must be over twenty years of support and care. Throughout these long years, for all the Dharma protectors, followers, and disciples who have been able to possess my Dharma treasures, or attend Dharma assemblies and conferences, or for the arrangements made for speakers and visitors—your contributions are indispensable. Of course, you could delegate these tasks to assistants, but in the end, they still had to report to you for the final review. If there were areas needing improvement or adjustment, they needed to hear your opinion, and once adopted, the work would proceed accordingly. This is not an easy task. I, Chin Kung, sincerely say thank you to you! Without your help and support, I would not have achieved what I have today. Of course, I also wish to say a sincere thank you to the vast number of monastics, lay practitioners, volunteers, and many supporters who have silently helped me. I understand and appreciate everyone's dedication, which is why I have not dared to slacken in these sixty years."
"In every lecture, I have earnestly reported and shared what I have known, learned, obtained, and realised, hoping to be of help to everyone in their Pure Land practice. But the most important, the most crucial thing, is to be able to achieve rebirth in the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss. In this process, Lay Practitioner Hu Nini laboured with both heart and strength. It is inevitable that thoughts and intentions would arise, as she often had to handle various problems or maintain constant contact with others. She acted as a lay practitioner to protect the Dharma and support me. Therefore, I sometimes observed certain situations and offered her guidance, but her thoughts could not be avoided; they were always spinning—for the sake of everyone, for the sake of the Pure Land school, and for the sake of the smooth propagation of the Buddha's teachings. This, of course, was a burden on her body's cells, which also needed to be released. At such times, in one's daily practice—whether reciting the Sutras, chanting Namo Amituofo, or performing prostrations—these are all methods to help everyone purify, attain meditative concentration, and open Wisdom. Therefore, despite being so busy every day, Lay Practitioner Hu had to make special, extra time, or perhaps she had no time at all to truly settle her heart in her own Pure Land practice."
"Whenever I was recording lectures, she would be present. Thus, a Dharma protector's understanding of the Buddha's teachings and their awareness of everyone's needs must advance in tandem. Over these many years, she has given countless hours and physical strength, and her physical condition began to show signs of strain as she aged and the Dharma work continued. While the propagation of the Dharma was stable and proceeding with regularity, a decision-maker must always have boldness. In her boldness, Lay Practitioner Hu inadvertently revealed her own personality; this was not something she could control. Sometimes, one must be firm in choosing what is good, and it is inevitable that one's speech might be a bit direct. These things were actually a form of harm to her body, and over time, her body issued warning signals.
For so many years, she has almost dedicated her entire body to the Pure Land school. There is a saying in the Buddha's gate: 'Devote this body and mind to the dust-motes of the universe.' This is the state of one who is selfless, in a state of no-mind, dedicating this precious body—which is used to cultivate the truth through the false—to all beings. This is the most direct expression of the view of oneness. It is not easy to do this! Such a spirit is highly respectable and admirable, because one must be without mind and without self to truly 'devote this body and mind to the dust-motes of the universe.' If one still has a mind, a self, and selfishness, even if one is sincerely willing to give for the sake of all beings, because one still carries an uncontrollable, habitual, and rigid personality, temper, and style of work, coupled with fluctuations and the arising of thoughts, these will all attract and the manifestation of , causing the body to experience aging, sickness, and death. This is the reason for Lay Practitioner Hu's illness that I, Chin Kung, have observed from the Land of Dharma Nature.
We now know that before one awakens and before one transforms their karma, birth, aging, sickness, death, and impermanence are happening at all times. Lay Practitioner Hu's and merits are immeasurable, and the ability she possesses today is also the good fruit of her generosity and support for the Buddha's teachings in past lives. Only because of this was she able to continue to play such an important role in protecting the Pure Land and myself today."
"When I was alive, she followed me almost everywhere I went. I never had to worry about the many big and small matters in my daily life. I, Jingkong, am truly grateful to her, but one must still bear the consequences of one's own karma. This cause—which includes karmic creditors—is something we created in past lives; the karma is as vast as Mount Sumeru and as deep as the ocean. In this lifetime, it can manifest at any moment, provided the Causal Conditions have ripened. When it manifests, the most direct and obvious signs are aging and illness. Now, from my state as a spirit in the Western Land of Dharma Nature, I can see that her body has truly flashed a red warning light. During my lifetime, I knew she had some health issues, and she would use various methods to alleviate them, such as taking traditional Chinese medicine or using physical therapies. Often, these were effective or provided some improvement. However, some problems originate from within the body, and by the time one discovers them, the internal organs have already been damaged. Now we know that the most direct cause is the manifestation of karmic creditors or karma itself. Originally, there were signs of discomfort in the head and chest, and her physical strength was not what it used to be; now, problems have emerged in her kidneys."
The Burden of Impermanence
"The kidneys are a vital organ in the body. The excretion of many waste products depends on them. The body must constantly expel these wastes, and if the kidneys fail, waste accumulates in the body—how can it endure that? Therefore, one must rely on medical assistance to clear out these wastes and allow the body to maintain its functions. This is an incredibly arduous process, and it has caused a significant impact on her life and well-being, requiring a complete adjustment. Of course, this is also a shock to one's life; the impermanence of human existence lies in the fact that you simply cannot control it.
If we could control it, who would choose to be sick? Who would choose to age? No one would. We often say, 'Follow Causal Conditions to exhaust old karma.' Those who undergo dialysis suffer greatly. If this problem has occurred in her body at this time, it is because her Blessings and merits are so immense that she has the capacity to help herself exhaust this old karma. However, she has certainly paid a heavy price, both physically and mentally."
A Universe Within the Cells
"I, Jingkong, now see that her kidneys are densely packed with beings. These beings were brought here by the karma she created in past lives. We now know that the body is a universe; the things we have done over immeasurable eons, and the beings involved, are often contained within the space inside our body's cells. In the past few days, when I heard Practitioner Su Fo speaking about this, I still felt it was inconceivable. How could such a thing be? I had never heard of it before, but now that I have seen it with my own eyes, I have no choice but to believe it is indeed the truth.
I can see that within the cells of Practitioner Hu's kidneys, many cells are unable to function. There are many beings inside, and they are also suffering greatly. Within their space, I have witnessed many scenes of war—two armies clashing, with civilians suffering on both sides. The slaughter of battle is still ongoing; on the vast land, warhorses are galloping, dust is swirling, and I can even hear the neighing of the horses. I hear the cries of civilians fleeing for their lives, and the spread of the flames of war. These scenes are happening in a corner of the kidneys. When I look back further, I see that this has been going on for a very long time, repeating endlessly, and it continues to this day. When I was here before, I thought about checking on Practitioner Hu's condition, but I could not bear to look any further because I could not help her. Now, as I speak, I see it again. The scene I am witnessing now is from seventeen lifetimes ago. This means that for these seventeen lifetimes, the beings in these spaces have been living in this state. It is truly a deeply painful existence. Why did those wars happen? It is because, in that time, Practitioner Hu was an important general who led these wars. That is why these beings are attached to her body. How could her health be good under such circumstances?"
The Call for Compassion and Repentance
"Then there is another scene in a different corner of the kidneys. I cannot help but look at this one, too. If I do not speak of it, she will never know. I have spoken, hoping she can see it. Although I know it is painful to realize these things are happening within oneself, one must face them. Originally, one could only rely on medical dialysis to replace the function of the kidneys, but at this moment, I, Jingkong, know there is another way to help you. Practitioner Hu, please believe my words: Namo Amituofo is at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre, and Namo Amituofo is the Great Physician King! This is written very clearly by Zen Master Zhongfeng in the '' collection. Everyone recites this during the Dharma assembly. This is not just a formality; it is the truth! You must repent! You must have compassion! You must repent for the harm caused to them out of ignorance in the past. You must resolve the conflict, invite these suffering beings to come out, and perform to send them to the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss. This can be considered a form of repentance and compensation for them.
These things can be accomplished here at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre with Namo Amituofo. It is done every day; beings are invited every day, and they are sent to the Western Land of Dharma Nature every day. The Dharma assemblies have sent countless beings to be reborn in the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss, and these beings include those who are invited daily. You must have compassion! You must invite these beings to the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss. The important thing is to resolve the conflict and invite them out first. Inviting spirits is not an easy task. In this place, we can allow the beings to return to the past—I just mentioned seventeen lifetimes ago—and help them return to a scene before the war, allowing their families to reunite, or even stop the war, restore their homes, and compensate them with fifty or one hundred taels of gold to rebuild their lives. This allows the beings to be willing to accept a resolution. All these things can be done here. This is the great compassion of Namo Amituofo and an inconceivable miracle!"
The Path to True Liberation
"If the beings within your body cannot come out, they suffer, and your body's cells suffer as well. If you come here and we invite the beings out, I hope your cells still have the function to operate; perhaps your kidneys will improve, and you might even be able to stop dialysis. Even if the cells have suffered severe damage, at least we have invited the beings out. We are practitioners of the Pure Land school who chant the Buddha's name; we have Namo Amituofo to rely on. We must treat our own beings with compassion. They are all beings we have harmed in past lives. Here, we have the means to send them to the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss. This is the ultimate liberation; their liberation is also our liberation. I, Jingkong, speak these words with a heavy heart. The number of beings covered here is immeasurable and boundless. Including the galloping warhorses and the swirling dust—every grain of dust is a being—this sky filled with flying dust already covers immeasurable and boundless beings. The number of suffering civilians, horses, generals, and soldiers is simply too great to count. It is far more than what we have seen in movies; it is many times greater. Movies are merely a scene from the past, but this is happening in reality.
Now, another scene in the kidneys has emerged; this must be from a different lifetime. At that time, you were a man, a son of a wealthy family. You were talented and handsome. Naturally, many women surrounded you, and it was inevitable that you would spend time with them under the moon, composing poems and playing games of affection. These women now appear in a part of your kidneys, their hearts filled with resentment toward you because those relationships had no future. They waited for you at home with your children, but you never returned. They lived their whole lives in regret and died in tears. Now, they remain in that space within your body. Under such circumstances, how could your cells function normally? I saw this; it happened thirteen lifetimes ago. This is the law of karma and cause and effect!
Because you created this cause in a past life, under the Causal Conditions of this lifetime, the retribution has manifested, and the beings have appeared. I, Jingkong, see it clearly, and I have taken this opportunity to speak of it, hoping you can awaken. They are in a state of spirit. The karmic creditors mentioned in our Buddha's teachings truly exist, and they are right there on your body. It is not without reason that your kidneys have become ill at this time. You must have compassion! They have followed you for so long—thirteen lifetimes, was it? No matter how advanced medical technology is, dialysis can only replace the function of the kidney cells, but these karmic creditors have always existed within your body. You must truly help them escape their suffering! They have manifested; you must invite them out.
You must make them willing to come out, but often the beings who manifest have the same personality as you. Whatever personality you have, they have the same. This is the actual situation I see here. These beings are also attached; they are unwilling to leave and want to follow you. Here at the temple, the Buddha-light of Namo Amituofo shines upon their hearts, allowing their hearts to turn gentle. Namo Amituofo can also provide teachings to them, helping them understand the pain of and the cycle of rebirth. We can help their families reunite; the children can go to the Infant Spirit House. In the Infant Spirit House, there are many candies and cookies. Not only can they be with their parents, but they have whatever they want to eat, use, or wear. The Infant Spirit House is the place the infant spirits here love to go the most. The toys that older children like are all in the Infant Spirit House. Many infant spirits say during Chao Du that they want to go to the Infant Spirit House. Therefore, the children I just saw can also come here. Through the invitation of spirits, we can bring them out and lead them in; the can lead them into the Infant Spirit House. They will be extremely happy, and we can allow them to enter the Dharma-Nature Land and enter the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss. Do not let them stay on your body any longer, living in that painful space of the past, causing functional impairment to your kidney cells, and forcing you to live a difficult life, restricted in your diet and daily routine." Namo Amituofo."}
Lay Practitioner Hu, these matters were entirely hidden from me while I walked the earth, and I could only watch helplessly as you endured such profound suffering. Naturally, you were unaware of the true cause as well. But now, from this vantage point, I see everything clearly. It is truly the great compassion of Namo Amituofo that has granted me, Jingkong, this precious opportunity to reach out to you. I sincerely hope that you will encounter this interview and find it in your heart to believe these words. Even if you are currently half-believing and half-doubting, that is perfectly fine. Let us first focus on helping these beings leave suffering behind. Is this not the very essence of what we, as practitioners of the Pure Land, are always advocating? We are always speaking of the urgent need to help all beings leave suffering and gain happiness, and to guide them toward rebirth in the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss. You have dedicated yourself to supporting the Pure Land and assisting others in this way; how much more vital is it that you now extend that same compassion to the suffering beings and karmic creditors residing within your own body! I implore you: come to the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre and invite Namo Amituofo to assist you!
The Densely Packed Suffering Within
In truth, during the final days of my life, my spirit became aware of the Amitabha Buddha's discourse, which revealed the path to healing your illness. I am rushing to share this with you now. Regardless of your current circumstances, now that I have spoken, you must act without delay. Life is fleeting, and we must not let any more precious days slip away. Give yourself this chance, and in doing so, save the beings who are trapped within you. What I see now is far more than what I have described; this is merely a glimpse of the reality. Your kidneys are densely packed with beings who are all suffering immensely. They have come to collect debts, to seek retribution for past grievances, and they have created a heavy obstruction in that area. If they are not invited out and delivered, how could your body and your kidneys ever hope to recover? Please, listen to my words, heed my counseling, and invite Namo Amituofo to come to your aid!
Jingkong will conclude here for today.
Namo Amituofo.
Shi Jingkong, with palms joined.
At the of the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre, Australia.
