This is a record of an interview with the late Elder Baisheng, a prominent figure in the history of Chinese Buddhism. After his passing, he sought at the Hsiang Kuang Buddhist Centre in Australia. He now resides in the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss. This account reflects upon his life, his time in the hells, and his eventual deliverance. Recorded by the chief writer, Shi Faxi, on June 1, 2017.
Shi Faxi speaks:
"I, Faxi, offer ten bows to the Buddha and sincerely invite my grand-teacher, Elder Baisheng, to join us. I am about to interview Elder Baisheng regarding his cultivation process and his experience of rebirth in the Western Pure Land. I humbly ask for the Elder's ; for the sake of repaying the Buddha's kindness, I hope this testimony can assist all monastics and practitioners currently in the world. ."
The Truth Behind the Veil
Elder Baisheng speaks:
"Namo Amituofo. I have finally entered the Western Land. It is not hell. Only by appearing here can I truly be saved. If I were still alive in the world today, I would not believe this myself. The Buddha's teachings do not permit the pursuit of supernatural powers, yet everyone secretly craves them in their hearts. It is just that reality forbids us from admitting it, and no one dares to speak of it. However, to pursue spiritual responses and supernatural powers is to have a skewed intention; it is not the righteous path. The sutras state that if one truly cultivates, supernatural powers will manifest naturally. They arise from the natural state, which has its own foundation. But in this -Ending Age, it is difficult to know what is natural, for it is no longer natural at all. How many people truly cultivate? How many are there? Speaking of these truths, I feel deeply ashamed. It was only after arriving in the Western Pure Land that I began to truly cultivate. While I was in the world, I was in confusion; here, I have true clarity. If people in the world could understand this, the Dharma would not be broken, and the Dharma would not decline. If the people of the world could still believe today—if they believe my words, Elder Baisheng's words—the Buddha's teachings can still be turned around."
A Life of Public Service and Hidden
"During my life, I held the position of leader of the Buddhist Association of China and served in various other Buddhist organizations, leading the phenomena of the world's Buddha Dharma. Now I know... there was nothing good in my appearance. Because of this, I fell into the hells to bear the responsibility for my sins. That is the first point. Secondly, my heart was divided. I appeared to have a righteous stance, but in truth, it was hidden with the stains of defilement. Even though I exerted all my efforts to promote monastic education and engaged in various activities to benefit the Dharma and living beings—and indeed, I did contribute to the Buddha's teachings—it is a fact that I did not reach the Western Pure Land. I also suffered from illness; it is not that I did not. I spent my whole life toiling and rushing about. Although I was a monastic, deep within my heart, there was an infinite amount of hidden attachment. When it came to major matters, I dare not say that I did not think of myself first. What was in my heart and what I projected externally were not entirely the same.
"Under the arrangement of my , I was considered to have ; I climbed high in terms of fame and profit. I was dedicated to helping beings, but I was also the person with the least amount of blessings. Because of such high status, fame, and the temptation of profit, unless one is a truly pure bhikshu, one is fundamentally creating karma. Whether one is pure or not, one's own heart knows clearly. I was not entirely pure. When I was treated like the earth or dog excrement to be trampled upon by others, I could not remain unmoved, let alone when I was being flattered or revered by others. I, Baisheng, was not cool and calm; I did not possess the skill of emptiness in Zen. On the path of practice, I spent my life educating disciples, but I never saw them all truly learn well. The faults of the disciples are the responsibility of the teacher."
The Illusion of a Legacy
"I spent my whole life sparing no effort in spreading the Dharma and benefiting beings, yet I had not even cultivated the most basic mental cultivation. Looking at it now, what is the point of talking about being a high-ranking monastic? I sat high, yet I could not be reborn in the Pure Land. The grand funeral arrangements were just a legend; they were not real. The auspicious signs I thought I had were actually the result of suffering retribution in hell. During my life, relying on my unextinguished desires, my three hun souls and seven po souls were long separated and scattered in all directions. Many times, they were dragged into the hells to suffer retribution. Some of this was also due to the laws of karma and cause and effect from past lives; the were always by my side. Looking back on my life, I did not save a single being. My original intention for becoming a monastic—the great vow I made—was actually built upon something unreal. It did not arise from the bottom of my heart.
"At the time, I just felt that the Buddha's teachings were good. In an era of war and hardship, to have a place of peace was the best thing possible. That was my true thought for becoming a monastic. Later, there was some sincere practice, but most of it could not keep up with the changes in my character. Because deep down, did I have practice? There was no practice here. My Dharma appearance was constantly changing. Looking back now, when things were good, I appeared dignified; but with one deviation in thought, there was no Dharma, no reality, and no truth. These things did not exist; they rolled along with terrifying desires. Although I was a famous monk in the Buddhist Association at the time, and I, Master Baisheng, put a lot of effort into the revival of Buddhism, supporting and advocating for monastic education—from primary school to university, emphasizing ethics and education among the sangha—I myself did not know the Truth. In the monastic education system, still, no one was reborn in the Pure Land. The best of them only cultivated not bad, but they still did not achieve spiritual success."
A Final Plea for the Pure Land
"I, Baisheng, knew that there was one thing in my heart I did not let go of: attachment. Even though my external achievements were brilliant and I was revered by others, internally, I had not achieved anything. As I aged, my body became ill. I was old, and my body had the smell of an old man. The result of my life is judged here: it is nothing. It is a failed result. I, Baisheng, was still subject to birth, aging, sickness, and death. What change did practice bring to me? It seems there was none. On the contrary, I created karma. Night after night, I was often taken to the underworld to be judged. But most of the time, I was unaware of it. I just thought I could not get up early, or that my whole body was aching, and I thought it was just because I was too exhausted. The older I got, the less my memory served me, and physical illnesses began to find me. But I did not know the Truth. I thought these were the normal signs of life. Not knowing the Truth, I acted against the Truth. Having said all this, it is this sentence that determines that my life's achievements were an illusory mirage. My words as your grand-teacher end here. Falling into hell was miserable. At first, I refused to admit defeat. I thought, I cultivated like this, I paid this much, and I had all these honours; how could I end up with the retribution of hell?
"Two or three years ago, I heard someone shouting, 'Elder Baisheng! Elder Baisheng!' It was the disciples of this master, saying, 'We must save him! We must save him!' I was protected by a beam of light and brought here, to the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre. Even then, I could see that a temple would be built here in the future. I, Baisheng, was saved from hell. Later, during the Chao Du for rebirth, Practitioner Su personally led me to the Western Pure Land. I am deeply grateful for this! Later, because I learned that Practitioner Zhou knew Venerable Ming Shi, I deliberately had him act as a bridge, but for a long time, there was no result, and Practitioner Su does not climb the ladder of connections. Recently, because the children wanted to become monastics, the connection with Venerable Ming Shi was finally made. Having this group of children to continue my Dharma lineage, I feel that my life was not in vain. I am very happy to have this group of grand-disciples. The 'Wu' generation name must be kept; in the future, your grand-teacher will still be able to help. In this life, I did not actively urge the masses to be reborn in the Western Pure Land. Now, I earnestly and sincerely hope that everyone will be reborn in the Western Pure Land and seek rebirth in the Pure Land. These are my true words, spoken truthfully. I hope that all of you, the devout disciples of the Buddha's gate, will believe in this place—the true gold Pure Land, the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre. Namo Amituofo."
"The ashamed monastic, Baisheng, personally wrote this truth."
"The interview content was written down by Shi Faxi."
