This is a record of an interview with the spirit of Venerable Master Chin Kung, who now resides in the . He reflects upon the profound concept of Emptiness and Nothingness and the path to true nature. This interview was recorded by the chief writer, Venerable HaiZe, on December 6, 2022, at the Hsiang Kuang Buddhist Centre in Australia.
Venerable Master Chin Kung speaks:
". Today, Namo Amituofo has given me a topic to discuss: 'Emptiness and Nothingness.' These two characters encapsulate the very essence of the Buddha's teachings! Namo Amituofo possesses such immense Wisdom; He can condense the vastness of the into such brief, powerful words.
Regarding these two concepts, one could say nothing at all, for there are no words or written characters that can truly express their full meaning. As the saying goes, 'all Buddhas walk the same path,' and everything is contained within silence. It can only be intuitively grasped; it is difficult to convey through speech. Although there is no 'state' to speak of—because, in reality, there are no boundaries—one must still attempt to express the meaning. Practitioners who have reached such a state will naturally have their own realisation and cannot help but smile. Therefore, is it necessary for those in the Buddha's gate to speak much? It is not. Learning the Buddha's teachings is not about learning how to talk; it is about learning from the Buddha and learning how to become a Buddha. Giving lectures and teaching the Dharma is merely a 'skillful means' to help the other person understand what you wish to express. That is the only reason we speak or make a sound; otherwise, learning the Buddha's path requires no sound at all, which is why we have the practice of silence.
The Life of a Realised Being
Those who have attained true skill in their practice live lives of purity, peace, freedom, and coolness. If one enters the state where 'there is nothing, yet when something is needed, everything is present,' that is the realisation of one's true nature. This is the mystery of Emptiness and Nothingness; this is the life led by those who have realised their true nature and attained Buddhahood.
Purity, peace, freedom, and coolness are the states a practitioner should live in—without suffering, without difficulty, where every action naturally manifests the Dharma. Conversely, the suffering in this world exists because people believe they must 'have' things to feel secure. Their sense of security is built upon 'having.' Having a house, a car, a spouse, children, and money—people call this the 'five successes.' With these, the human heart feels more at ease, believing they have something to rely on. If they lack these, people will search, pursue, and work tirelessly to earn enough money to do many things. Once the money is secured, the other four often follow. This is why so many people in this world are desperately working to earn money; their good or bad days depend entirely upon it. Yet, all of this is . If it is in your destiny, you do not need to force it; it will come to you on its own. If it is not in your destiny, no matter how hard you struggle, you will end up with nothing. Those with spiritual insight who encounter such situations may realise a bit of the Buddha's truth: the amount of wealth in this lifetime is determined by whether or not you practised Generosity in past lives, not because you were not hardworking enough or did not do well enough. Of course, one cannot say, 'Since it is in my destiny, I do not need to do anything.' That is not correct either. If you have it, you must know how to practise Generosity to create , and you must know how to cherish those blessings so they continue to extend. Otherwise, one day you will exhaust your resources, and then you will suffer greatly.
The Importance of Cherishing Blessings
Therefore, knowing how to cherish blessings, create blessings, and practise Generosity is vital. Some people understand these principles, while others do not. Even those who understand may not necessarily be able to put them into practice. For those who do not understand, I hope that after hearing this, your heart will open and you will be able to act accordingly. If you are living in poverty in this lifetime, perhaps you were a wealthy person in a past life who simply did not know how to create blessings, exhausting all your good fortune. That is why you are living a life of hardship now. This is the truth of the matter. Since you know this, accept it all with a calm heart. This is truly how it is. The human world is like this. Many people think that if they cannot see it, it does not count. Such people belong to the category of those who do not understand the truth of reality but have heavy ego-attachment and strong subjective views.
The concept of 'having' is easy for everyone to understand, but the concept of 'Emptiness and Nothingness' is harder to grasp. This is also consistent with reality, as people naturally live in a world of 'having.' interact with ; there must be Six Dusts for the Six Roots to receive them. Without the Six Dusts, the Six Roots receive nothing. It is true that there must be form and colour for the eyes to see, and there must be sound for the ears to hear. Without sound, the ears hear nothing. In fact, the ears can only receive sounds within a certain frequency range; outside of that, the ears hear nothing, yet the world beyond that frequency is vast. The same applies to the eyes; there must be a concrete image or colour for you to see it clearly. If it is invisible or transparent, you cannot see it, and you assume it does not exist. In fact, the world beyond what is visible is far, far broader than the visible world. By extension, the same applies to everyone's body. So, living in a world of 'having' is normal, but everyone must know that this 'having' brings limitations. It changes, it is impermanent, it cannot be controlled, and it involves birth, aging, sickness, death, and the cycle of rebirth.
The Hidden Truth of Emptiness
Yet, 'having' is contained within Emptiness and Nothingness. You might find this strange. Emptiness is empty, Nothingness is nothing, and 'having' is 'having.' Why would I say that 'having' is a part of 'Emptiness and Nothingness'? This is the important concept I hope everyone can understand.
People are accustomed to 'having' and are not accustomed to 'nothing' or 'emptiness,' where everything is lacking. If your life experience could reach a point where you truly have nothing—where it is all empty—I believe you would have a completely different realisation. Some might say, 'Master, that is very risky! Who can endure a life where they have nothing? No wife, how can I live? No children, the elders say, "Of all unfilial acts, having no descendants is the worst." No car, people will look down on me. No house, where would I live? Most importantly, no money, I cannot go anywhere or do anything. I do not want to live such a life!' When put this way, it is true that people in this world would panic, feel afraid, and lack security and affection. 'This is the life of a poor person; I do not want to live like that!'
Indeed, many people fear a life of poverty, but for the sake of learning the Buddha's path and practising, all these 'havings' must be let go! Everyone knows that we must let go of afflictions, cut off delusions, discrimination, and attachment. A practitioner must have pure Six Roots. In this sense, it would be best if nothing happened, if there were nothing, and best if there were no fluctuations in the heart. Yes! As we know now, if there are fluctuations in the heart, it will attract karma, attract , attached spirits, and even demon crowds to manifest, and then one will have to suffer. This is a profound experience that many have had.
The Power of Meditative Concentration
Therefore, do not let the heart fluctuate; that is meditative concentration. Speaking of meditative concentration, it is not unfamiliar to practitioners. In the Buddha's gate, meditative concentration is an essential skill for every practitioner. Everyone wants to learn more based on their current situation; this is diligent practice. Diligent practice, and then more diligent practice, and even fiercely diligent practice—this is not just talk; it is something a practitioner must actually do.
Practice, no matter how hard one tries, is all for the purpose of finding one's true nature. If I tell you that the true face of your true nature is empty, is nothing, and that it is 'nothing, yet everything,' then do you still want to practise? Do you still want to learn the Buddha's path? Some say, 'I came to learn the Buddha's path for this very reason.' That is good! Then continue to work hard. There is always a beginning, and that is a good thing.
Next, you must let go of everything you 'have' in this world. This 'letting go' does not mean you only let go of what you dislike and keep what you like; it is not like that at all. Let me tell you, whether you like it or not, you must let go. Letting go has no discrimination. In terms of learning and purification, the more you like something, the more important a role it plays in your heart, and the more it occupies a significant position in your heart—that is called 'having,' and it must be let go of even more! In your practice, you must let go of everything you had before, especially those things, people, or objects that occupy important roles and positions. Let go of them completely, leaving not a single trace. Let us see if you can do it. There is no such thing as a free lunch in this world. Since you want to find your true nature, you must do this. When you reach the state of Emptiness and Nothingness, that is when you have found your true nature.
You cannot bear to let go of what you have in your heart, or the past that you cannot forget, or what you are waiting for or expecting to appear, or the unpleasant things you have recently encountered—sadness, fear, anger, terror, and so on. All these 'havings' must be let go. The best method is not to let that 'having' manifest in the first place; that is the most refreshing way. If there is not even 'having,' then what is there for you to let go of? There will be no suffering, no reluctance, and no inability to let go. Only when you can pass this hurdle is it possible to find your true nature. If you cannot pass this hurdle, and there is 'having' in your heart, you will naturally not be able to find your true nature.
The True Face of Nature
Our true nature is our original nature, which is what the Chan school often refers to as the 'original face before one's parents were born.' Every being has it. It cannot be touched or seen, but it truly exists. Since it exists, why have we lost it now, and why can we only find it through learning and practising the Buddha's path? It is because it has been covered up by these 'havings.' These 'havings' are all pollution. The word 'pollution' is not unfamiliar to believers who often listen to my Dharma talks. One could even give a long lecture on what constitutes pollution, but here I will simply say: everything in this world is pollution!
You can take a piece of paper and a pen and write down what you actually possess. See how much you can write down. Then write down how much you want to possess but do not have. Then write down how much you originally did not have and do not want to possess. If your third list is longer than the first two, then congratulations. Some people think, 'I want to have, so I will work hard and find ways to possess it. My desires are satisfied, and that is a successful life.' So, for such a person, if you write down these things on paper, the first and second lists might be very long, and the third list might be very short. Then, I will tell you honestly: your life is very hard and very tiring! Moreover, because these pollutions are added in this lifetime, they cover your true nature with many more layers, making it even harder for your true nature to see the light of day.
If one day you suddenly want to learn the Buddha's path and practise, then I congratulate you; you have a chance to find your true nature. But the prerequisite is that you must be able to let go of all the desires you have pursued and satisfied in this world, one by one, and you must let go of them cleanly, leaving no way back. This is called purification. Let go of the pollution, wash it clean, and purify it layer by layer. When what you originally had becomes empty, becomes nothing, and is gone, then you will have found your true nature. It was always there; it was just ignored and covered by these pollutions. Learning and practising the Buddha's path is about leading everyone to wash away these pollutions and to let that heart of yours, which is always seeking satisfaction and fluctuating, become quiet and settled. This process is different for everyone. Those with superior capacity cut it off as soon as they are told; they have boldness, they do not drag their feet, and they leave no way back. Such practitioners are admirable and are becoming increasingly rare in this world. If one can truly do this, learning the Buddha's path will surely lead to achievement. Learning the Buddha's path requires this kind of boldness. This is also because one has deep good roots from the past, has cultivated many blessings, has few interferences from karmic creditors, or has already resolved them, stopping the manifestation of spiritual obstacles. Such people may enter Emptiness and Nothingness and realise their true nature. At that time, the heart is deeply settled and will not be incited by the outside world. At that time, you will be able to be your own master. You will discover that what you possessed in the past was all illusory—it could not be found or touched.
The Wisdom of the Buddha
In the state of Prajna—where one is 'ignorant' yet 'knows everything'—in the context of the lost past, all the things that happened in your past life become clear at a glance, appearing before your eyes clearly and distinctly. Instead, you know everything and possess everything; you have whatever you want, just like Doraemon's treasure box—that famous Japanese cartoon, I have heard of it, and I know that everything is in that treasure box. Suddenly, you want something, and you reach in and have it. It is just like your true nature; whatever you want to know, it naturally emerges. How wonderful! When you do not need it, there is nothing; that is Emptiness and Nothingness—cool, free, pure, and good, with natural Dharma-. Those who have realised their true nature, or Buddhas and Bodhisattvas, live in such a state. How many people envy this! Everyone works hard to learn the Buddha's path and practises diligently just to live such a life. At that time, your mind-capacity will open to be infinitely large, living in Wisdom and , able to contain everything, including the mountains, rivers, the earth, and all creatures in the universe. Even as small as a water molecule or an ant, you are respectful to them and dare not harm them. Because you know they are all Buddhas, only lost and thus appearing as they are now, they still have a chance to return and find their true nature. Having this insight and truly acting accordingly is the realisation of true nature, living in a world of equality and oneness. Is this not wonderful?
If you want to find your true nature, you must go through the process of learning the Buddha's path, practising, and purification. More importantly, you must have a true spiritual friend to lead you, because in this process, you often cannot see your own problems, or you may go astray without knowing it, and many problems and contradictions may arise. You need a true spiritual friend to help you see what to do next so that you do not go astray. Regardless, if you can look well, think well, do well, and speak well, then basically you will not deviate too far from the righteous path. But if you are not accustomed to doing this and are used to acting, thinking, and speaking according to your own will, then there will be no progress in your practice. In any case, those who want to find their true nature must also learn one skill: to have deep meditative concentration and not be moved by external environments. Even if the external environment moves, and even if your body moves, your heart must not be moved. This is a condition that a practitioner must possess.
The Blessing of the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre
This state of stability allows your body, mind, and spirit to become one, to be coordinated, and to exert the greatest effect in saving the world and delivering beings. In this Five Turbidities and Evil World, if everything could go as one wishes, how wonderful that would be. That is to say, on this great path of learning the Buddha's path, one will inevitably encounter interferences and obstacles. These interferences and obstacles may occur during practice or after realising one's true nature. If the interferences and obstacles occur after realising one's true nature, because you can be the master, your spirit is clear and distinct. Your heart and spirit work together to help deliver and teach beings in the world. Therefore, whatever the body encounters, your heart and spirit will lend a helping hand, supporting your body and encouraging the body to face the facts. As long as it is something that helps and benefits beings, you should accept it and do it.
In the past, most people who realised their true nature fought alone. Realising one's true nature is truly not an easy thing. Therefore, if a person who has realised their true nature appears, everyone treats them as a treasure. Their actions, words, and deeds are all things for everyone to learn from. Listen, learn well, and you will also realise your true nature. This is not a joke I am making; this is the truth! The skills they have, you will also have. If you encounter any obstacles or interferences, they can also lend you a helping hand. As someone who has already walked the path, they always have much more experience, handle things quickly, and can help these interferences and obstacles be resolved sooner. How wonderful it is to have such a true spiritual friend by your side! It is truly something one could only wish for.
In ancient times, wise practitioners, if they knew where a person who had realised their true nature was, would travel over mountains and rivers, even bowing every three steps, very devoutly, to seek the Dharma before the person who had realised their true nature. As long as they let you see them, you are saved, because a person who has realised their true nature knows your past lives clearly. Their eyes are open—not just their eyes, but one should say their Six Roots are all open. Nothing can be hidden from them. If you want to hide from them or deceive them, then you are underestimating the person who has realised their true nature! It cannot be hidden, it cannot be deceived; instead, you are only polluting yourself. If you sincerely and clearly ask them for help, you will have a chance to realise your true nature sooner.
Therefore, the more polluted the world is, the more difficult it is for people to learn the Buddha's path, purify, and practise, and realising one's true nature is even rarer. But now, a person who has realised their true nature has appeared at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre: Practitioner Su, Su Fo. Even more rare and precious is that Namo Amituofo, the teaching master of the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss, is also here. This is an incredible thing; it is equivalent to two Buddhas being here! For the Pure Land school, everyone knows Namo Amituofo and must recite the six-character name or the four-character Buddha-name. But as for Practitioner Su, Su Fo, some people know this great virtuous one, and some do not. Whether you know him or not, it does not harm him at all. A person who has realised their true nature will not care about these things, because they no longer have a 'self'; they have reached . Their every thought is the same as the Buddha's—only beings, no self. Such a practitioner is respectable and admirable.
Everyone now knows about this, and it is through me that I am telling you. There is some truth to it, right? Based on my experience of living in the world and giving Dharma talks for sixty years, the words I speak should be trustworthy. This is a fact; everyone really does not need to doubt it. Otherwise, how could Namo Amituofo be here? This has never been heard of before. From ancient times to the present, Buddhas and Bodhisattvas have manifested in the human world, mostly in human form. If they existed in the human world in the form of a spirit, if people knew, they would definitely rush to worship them. This is understandable; having a Buddha who can guide one's confusion and answer one's questions is something one could only wish for, and furthermore, they can lead everyone back to the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss.
Now this is happening at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre in Australia. I truly wish I could 'shout it from the rooftops' to tell everyone about this good thing, but as a spirit without a body, I cannot do such things. By telling everyone in this way, I truly hope that everyone can believe it; the one who benefits the most is yourself.
Alright, I will stop here for today.
Namo Amituofo.
Venerable Master Chin Kung, with palms joined.
At the Western Dharma-Nature Land of the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre, Australia.
