This interview features the spirit of the late Venerable Master Chin Kung, who sought deliverance at the Hsiang Kuang Buddhist Centre in Australia. Now residing in the , the Master reflects on his past attachments and the profound lessons learned through his journey. This testimony was recorded on September 13, 2022.
Venerable Master Chin Kung speaks:
". The topic Namo Amituofo has given me today is 'The Heart-Words of Chin Kung.' This title is even more profound than the previous one, 'The -Words of Chin Kung.' Why do I say this? Because all phenomena arise from the heart. Not only does the Dharma arise from the heart, but the six realms, the four holy states, the vastness of the Dharma Realm, and every living being within the ten directions—do they not all arise from the heart and are they not all created by the heart?
This heart can change in a thousand ways, yet it can also remain unmoved; it all depends on how one operates it. This heart can become an ant, an animal, a Buddha, or a demon. You tell me, is this heart easy to grasp? It is not! That is why we must practise. Before one reaches and attains Buddhahood, all efforts in practice must begin with the heart. Namo Amituofo has given me a topic that targets this very heart. My heart, as it is now, is even more vast and boundless than the Dharma-words I once spoke.
The Burden of Truth and the Mirror of the Buddha
If I were to expound upon the Buddha-heart, I could pull out all the sutras and treatises stored in my one by one. But what I must speak of now is the heart of Chin Kung—how much do I truly understand my own heart? This is something Namo Amituofo wants me to examine for myself. If Namo Amituofo looks at my heart, He sees it clearly and thoroughly; I cannot hide anything from the Buddha. He understands me even better than I understand myself, so I cannot be careless in the slightest.
If I were speaking to ordinary beings, I might be able to hide things, and they might not understand or be able to guess my true thoughts, which would make me feel more at ease. But before Namo Amituofo, I must be cautious! To say this implies there is still comparison and discrimination. The original heart has no comparison or discrimination; it should be the same at all times. There should be no such thing as a heart that is more uneasy at certain times or more at ease when facing certain beings. The original heart is one, unmoved—it is the true self, the Buddha-heart.
So, what is my heart really like? I must now lay it bare before everyone. I cannot hide it. Namo Amituofo is truly brilliant! If you are ignorant, have not realised the truth, and have not reached Awakening, then there is nothing to say—you only know what you know. But if you know how your heart should be, and you know whether you have achieved it or what your current state is, and you know two but only speak of one, then you are creating negative before Namo Amituofo. I do not know how that karma is calculated! Creating karma can happen through speech, through thoughts in the heart, or through actions.
The Nature of Spiritual Communication and
I am currently transmitting this content through a message; this is an intention, not an action. An action requires to perform it. The messages transmitted by beings are intentions. If they truly want to take action, they must rely on spiritual attachment—attaching to a person, controlling their body, performing the actions they desire, expressing their meanings, saying their words, and doing their deeds. Regardless of what kind of beings they are, humans can use their innate instincts—what we might call sensitive awareness—to receive these messages or express their meanings. In the context of the Buddha’s teachings, through practice, those with attainment can naturally manifest this ability. It is only a special event for those who have never encountered it, and such practitioners are becoming increasingly rare.
Other religions or individuals with special abilities may have records of this, but we use the Buddha’s teachings as our benchmark. We have taken refuge in the Buddha, and the Buddha is the One of Supreme, Perfect . We can also say we have taken refuge in our own true self—the Buddha-nature that every being possesses. So, what is the state of my heart? I remember a poem by Su Dongpo describing Mount Lu: 'Viewed horizontally, it is a ridge; viewed vertically, a peak. From far or near, high or low, it is never the same. I do not know the true face of Mount Lu, only because I am in the midst of this mountain.' Su Dongpo was an eminent monk in a past life, which is why he could write with such depth, expressing that one must look at the whole picture rather than just a part, or one will be biased.
Before I began learning the Buddha’s teachings, I saw mountains as mountains and water as water. After learning, I saw mountains as not mountains and water as not water, because I would analyse and try to understand the nature of things. Later, upon reaching Awakening, I saw mountains as mountains and water as water again—everything is natural and as it is. During my life, I went from seeing mountains as not mountains to seeing them as mountains that are not mountains. This means I understood the principles, but there was still a 'me'—a struggle between the 'me' and the principles. The result was that the principles were stronger than the 'me.' On the surface, there was no 'me,' but later I discovered that the 'me' had not disappeared; it was merely hidden in the depths of the heart. The root still contained a 'me,' so I could not be completely pure and without self.
The Responsibility of Transmitting the Dharma
This is the process of learning. I went through this process, always learning and progressing while not yet having realised my true nature. Fortunately, I had a specialty: I loved studying the sutras and absorbing the wisdom and essence of the practice of Buddhas, Bodhisattvas, ancestral masters, and the ancients. I knew my role. Since I aspired to lecture on the sutras, I had the duty to pass on the Dharma and not be stingy with it. Being stingy with the Dharma creates negative karma and is not the conduct of a disciple of the Buddha. If the ancestral masters had been stingy, we would not have received the Dharma, and Awakening would be difficult.
Many ancestral masters were awakened beings. They understood this principle well, so they poured their hearts into teaching what they knew, allowing everyone to learn and inherit the Buddha’s teachings. Therefore, I did not dare to be stingy with the Dharma, and I never was. The heart to transmit the Dharma has always been within me. At first, the objects of my teaching were everyone. The capacities of those who listened to my lectures varied, so I taught according to time and place, but never departed from the fundamentals of the Dharma. Later, I realised that one day I would leave the human world, and this Dharma-lineage needed to be passed on. I knew that when such a successor appeared, they would need guidance. I kept watching and waiting, only to discover later that this successor had long since appeared. It was just that my eyes were blind, my vision clouded—clouded by my surroundings or my own heart—which blocked this person’s opportunity to inherit the lineage.
The Challenge of Self-Liberation and My Own Oversights
Throughout this process, Namo Amituofo saw everything I did and my state of mind clearly. It is not easy for such a talented person to appear in the world. To cultivate a successor, besides having natural talent, the most important thing is to have the Vow—the Vow to save beings from suffering—and to have the practice to back it up. Most practitioners focus on their own liberation—saving themselves before saving others. We say, if you cannot save yourself, how can you talk about saving others? This is true. But in terms of human lifespan, this is a challenge. Within a limited life, can one practise enough to save oneself? Many people do not save themselves—they do not transform their karma, eventually growing old, falling ill, and passing away without finding their true nature. Most are still step-by-step obstructed and controlled by karma and , reincarnating before they can complete their self-salvation and rebirth in the Western Pure Land.
Of course, there are practitioners who know life is limited and that their time in this world is short. They do not know when impermanence will arrive, so they practise diligently. But after all, those who can find their true nature are few. To transform karma and change one's destiny is the only way to have a chance at Awakening, which then allows for self-salvation and the ability to save others. However, looking at the current situation, self-salvation and saving others usually go hand-in-hand because life is short and Awakening is not easy. The Buddha’s teachings must be passed on, and beings need education and help. There is not enough time to ideally go through the process of self-salvation followed by saving others, so they must be done simultaneously. What about my own situation? I believe I was doing both. In the past, I was quite confident, thinking I had already saved myself and had a firm grasp on rebirth in the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss, while lecturing on the sutras to save others. I made good use of every day, every minute, and every second to be worthy of the Buddhas, Bodhisattvas, and my three teachers—Lay Practitioner Fang Dongmei, Master Zhangjia, and Teacher Li Bingnan. Only then could I be worthy of myself. Without them, there would be no Chin Kung, so I put myself last. Now, it seems there is a gap between the result and the reality.
The Obstacle of Pride and the Reality of Spiritual Attachment
For sixty years of lecturing, I just lectured and did not get involved in other matters. But in spreading the Dharma in the human world, once the Dharma-affinity matures, opportunities arise for titles, invitations, or representing others. This also means your network and followers grow. Regarding followers, I always felt that if they were willing to learn, I should answer their questions as much as possible, so my schedule was always full. If I discovered problems, I would try to explain and answer them in class, teaching everyone how to act according to the Dharma. Some who were actively seeking the Dharma would request meetings, which was necessary. But as the number of followers grew, I had to be careful not to let it go to my head. I was very attentive in this regard because if I did not catch my own thoughts and intentions, I would create negative karma. I did not dare to be careless; I was cautious every second. But after all, I was human, and within limited time, energy, and spirit, I had to make choices. In short, my heart could not leave Namo Amituofo, nor could it leave sentient beings—I could not have a 'self.' You might ask, did I not understand this? Of course I did! I thought I had achieved it, but in reality, there were oversights. This is where I did not truly face my own problems—I did not face the fact that Namo Amituofo is truly at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre, even though I knew it.
The 'inviting of spirits' began about ten years ago, right? Since this place was built, I remember it has been about ten years. Practitioner Su, or Su Fo, began to receive the blessing of the Buddha’s power and gained the ability to invite spirits. When these things started happening, it was a shock to me! I had never heard of Buddhas and Bodhisattvas helping everyone invite spirits, but the process was so real. It was truly the ancestral masters or Buddhas inviting the spirits. At that moment, my thoughts were not as kind as they had been before. Using 'kind' or 'unkind' to describe my behaviour sounds strange, but it is the truth. Do you know why I lost my friendly response to Practitioner Su? It is a good thing for Buddhas and Bodhisattvas to manifest in the world to save beings; it should be supported and encouraged. Why was it obstructed by me and the Pure Land school? Because I thought, 'How could this be?' Practitioner Su, as a layperson, had such an achievement! I could not bring myself to admit it, so I did not give a positive response; instead, I gave a negative blockade. In fact, the Buddha’s power was already manifesting in the Hsiang Kuang room at that time. Without the Buddha’s power, how could these things be done? It would be impossible! Since it had the Buddha’s power, it meant it had the approval of Namo Amituofo. The way the Buddha used to approve was truly special—a breakthrough, unprecedented. At that time, I did not give a positive response to Practitioner Su’s inviting of spirits. I had never seen or heard of the Buddha’s teachings being used to save beings in this way, so I did not accept the situation, even though he still respected me and reported new developments to me.
The Consequences of Deviation and the Path to Repentance
But because I never supported or responded to him, and even treated him coldly when he came to the mountain to see me, it led to estrangement and a blockade. Looking back now, my thoughts at that time were already biased; the 'self' had manifested. The most terrifying thing is that this 'self' was not the real me, not my original self. My true spirit was no longer in control. Because I began to compare and doubt, I gave the demon crowds an opportunity to enter my body and interfere. Do not be frightened by this; this situation is very common, but people do not mention it and dare not touch upon it. At first, I might have noticed, but I always felt that under the influence of the True Teachings, I would receive the care of Buddhas, Bodhisattvas, and the Dragon and Heaven Dharma Protectors, avoiding mistakes. Yes, people generally think this way. But when my biased thoughts outweighed my righteous thoughts, and I could no longer be the master of my actions, how could the Dharma Protectors continue to protect me? Consequently, the number of beings within me increased, and my body aged rapidly and regressed. Many people are controlled in this way without knowing it. This is why some Dharma gates and lineages cannot be carried forward and instead decline. Some leaders know it in their hearts but dare not speak clearly for fear of causing panic among followers. Just as I am reviewing the situation now, I truly did not face my own selfishness. Even when there were opportunities to clarify things and reduce mutual harm, I still clung tightly to the saying, 'Just honestly chant Namo Amituofo,' and excluded Practitioner Su from the Pure Land school. This was truly being controlled. This is not an excuse; it is the truth. Of course, I must take full responsibility; no one forced me. It was all my own doing.
When there is a 'self,' thoughts and behaviours like 'How could this be?' or 'It should not be like this' naturally arise. At that time, my body was often no longer under my own control. But to others, I was still Chin Kung; the body was still Chin Kung’s body. Whether I was in control or whether it was really me, I should have known clearly! So, was the Chin Kung of that time really me? Sometimes I was not even sure myself. I always thought I was confident, but I did not expect that after sixty years of lecturing, my thoughts would deviate, leading to a situation where demon crowds and karmic creditors controlled me. But it was still Chin Kung—the voice, the face, the figure were all Chin Kung. Who would dare say it was not? No one dared. Well, there was one person, Practitioner Su, who dared to say it. He was right; he spoke the truth. At that time, because I had selfish thoughts, I was controlled—controlled by demons and by the karmic creditors within me. Such situations can often be seen at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre. It cannot be seen with the physical eye; only those with open eyes, those who know the truth, and those with true attainment can understand. This is also something I need to learn. This is a new concept: when one’s thoughts and behaviours deviate, demon crowds and attached spirits can enter the body. When their numbers are high, one’s true spirit cannot be the master, and the one in control may be one’s karmic creditors, demon crowds, or attached spirits, causing one to do things that were not one’s original intention. So, looking back at this now, I know that I had a 'self' and selfishness, and I lacked the mind-capacity and tolerance, let alone and wisdom.
The Grace of Namo Amituofo and the Achievement of Practitioner Su
These facts, as it appears now, are only clearly understood by Practitioner Su. He held firm to his faith, believed in what he encountered and heard, believed in the teachings of Namo Amituofo, and persisted, which is why he has today’s achievements. It also means I failed to see the truth. In fact, the greatest harm was to myself. Yet I still did what I was supposed to do, my daily life continued, and I performed my duties as everyone’s respected Master. Who would have known that the one truly in control had been replaced? It was not me! The true spirit was trapped and locked away, and the body-soul and consciousness-soul were expelled. When I speak of this, everyone feels it is strange because this is not what I usually taught. But in fact, this is the truth. I deviated here. I always felt I was walking steadily on the path of transmitting the Dharma, but I deviated at this very moment. I blame myself for all of this. I did not pass this test, which is why I suffered the consequences and created the karma of hell. Namo Amituofo saw all of this clearly. Since He could not get my support, He came down to the human world Himself to help Practitioner Su, as such a talented person for saving the world is truly magnificent and rare. This opportunity could have allowed him to do more for sentient beings and help everyone reach the Western Pure Land through my support. But since that path was blocked, Namo Amituofo came down Himself to help Practitioner Su. Where can this be seen? From the many ancestral masters of the Western Pure Land who came down to help Practitioner Su invite the spirits out of his body. At that time, Practitioner Su suffered on behalf of the beings; the beings he saved were those who had attached to him hoping for deliverance. He did not know it himself, so the ancestral masters invited his spirits out and clearly stated who they were, what kind of beings they were, their quantity, and their representatives. With the help of the ancestral masters, many, many attached spirits were invited out of Practitioner Su’s body. These were not his own karmic creditors, nor were they attracted by him; they had entered his body hoping for his deliverance to the Western Pure Land. This is what 'inviting spirits' is.
This work of inviting spirits has been done for many years, and the ancestral masters who came are all household names—not ordinary people. They range from the First Patriarch of the Pure Land school, Master Huiyuan, to the Thirteenth Patriarch, Master Yinguang, as well as the Huayan Patriarchs. The names of these ancestral masters are now enshrined on the memorial tablets in the second-floor Buddha hall of the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre. Each one of them came to the Hsiang Kuang room at that time to help Practitioner Su invite spirits. Can ordinary spirit mediums or those with psychic powers do what these ancestral masters did? From that time on, Practitioner Su began to painstakingly manage the Hsiang Kuang room, leading to the current Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre. Fortunately, along this journey, with the help of Namo Amituofo and Teacher Xia Lianju, Practitioner Su has persevered with his tenacious willpower. Even now, he has not slackened, and his attainment grows day by day. This is also something he achieved through his own efforts. The number of beings delivered is truly terrifying—an immeasurable, immeasurable number. The process I have just described is the dedication of Practitioner Su over these ten years. The outside world did not know about this dedication because it was blocked by me. This is where I must repent! Now it seems I was wrong. Because of my selfishness, I blocked his growth, but I also helped his growth—he became braver with every setback! Since Namo Amituofo chose Practitioner Su and helped him, it is certain that such a talent is approved by Namo Amituofo. Logically, I should have accepted it, changed quickly, and worked together for the transmission of the Pure Land and to save beings to the Western Pure Land. But I did not do so. This is also why I created the karma of hell and suffered the retribution of hell—it is equivalent to not following the Buddha-heart! Although I say this, my heart is not truly transparent. Although these things have been mentioned in many interviews, every time I mention them, I feel a deep sense of sin!
A Final Opportunity for Repentance
Fortunately, Practitioner Su firmly believed in the Buddha and himself, which led to today’s achievements. Only then did he have the ability to save me from hell, and now he can save beings throughout the entire Dharma-realm and empty space, as well as the karmic creditors of the fourfold assembly, giving them the opportunity to be reborn in the Western Pure Land or enter the good paths. In this article, 'The Heart-Words of Chin Kung,' I spoke smoothly in the beginning, but when I reached this part, my words were heavy and profound. These things must be spoken openly to wash away the filth hidden in my heart. Every time I wash it clean a little bit, I believe this is also an opportunity given to me by Namo Amituofo to wash away my mental filth. Every time I talk about this, I feel my heart becoming more and more sincere.
At first, there was some insincerity—it was not genuine. When I started speaking, I was a bit hesitant. Later, every time I spoke, a little more sincerity was added to my heart. After speaking a few more times, it was truly opened up. The word 'true' is not easy to achieve. This is also the brilliance of Namo Amituofo, knowing what method to use to lead me, using the method I am good at to let me reveal my true heart. This is also saving me. I am very grateful to Namo Amituofo and to Practitioner Su for giving me this opportunity. If I had not gone through this process of speaking out and repenting time and time again, I might not have been able to wash away the sins I committed. Because I have gone through this process of confession, I have deeply realised how deep the roots of my insincere heart are. To pull them out by the roots really takes some effort. For a spirit like me, there must be a method. The method Namo Amituofo used is too brilliant; this is my blessing. Time is truly precious and passes very quickly. In this situation, I am deeply grateful for every interview, which allows me to learn and realise the vastness and grace of the Buddha’s teachings. I hope that here, everyone can accept my repentance and help eliminate my sins!
I will stop here for today.
Namo Amituofo.
Shi Chin Kung, with palms joined.
At the Western Dharma-Nature Land of the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre, Australia."
