This is a record of an interview with the spirit of Venerable Master Chin Kung, who now resides in the of the Hsiang Kuang Buddhist Centre in Australia. This interview, conducted by the chief writer, Venerable HaiZe, on October 13, 2022, explores the profound Buddhist concept of .
Venerable Master Chin Kung speaks:
". Today, Namo Amituofo has given me a topic to reflect upon: 'The Self.' Oh, Buddha! You are truly the Great Teacher, capable of seeing through the very depths of our hearts. In those places where we cannot see ourselves, where we cannot reach to cleanse the hidden stains, the Buddha reaches out to help us. At this very moment, the Buddha is helping me. I had never truly contemplated the 'self' in its entirety. Most of the time, I simply used the conventional notion of 'I,' without ever taking the time to examine this 'self' from beginning to end. Now, in my current state—without a physical body, remaining only with this heart and this spirit—it is much easier to see clearly.
The essence of the Buddha’s teachings is to help everyone reach the state of '' and to recover one's true nature. However, we must start from the state of 'having a self,' gradually gaining insight, and then letting go of the various attachments and views of the self. Only when we can truly let go, relinquishing the physical self, can we recover our true nature. That is the true self."
The Burden of the Physical Form
"In the past, this body was a vessel for filth and impurities, all of which obstructed me from seeing the truth of reality. Now that this body has passed away and been relinquished, those hidden impurities have been carried away with it. And let me tell you, those impurities were vast—truly vast! Everyone bathes daily; why? To cleanse —the hair, the face, the eyes, the mouth. We brush our teeth, rinse our mouths, and use the restroom. Are these not all acts of washing away the filth that the body does not need? We must cleanse the body and eliminate what is unnecessary.
These are the most basic physiological needs. No one can escape them, unless it is a Buddha or manifesting in the world. When they do so, their practice is already perfected, and they have the capacity to act differently. If one lacks such mastery and merely tries to imitate them, the results will be quite different. People will distance themselves from you, viewing you as a strange person, and you will likely fall ill. It is not the same as the manifestation of a Buddha or Bodhisattva. What the Buddhas, Bodhisattvas, and ancestral masters reveal is something we cannot simply demand. If you were to take a piece of skin from them, it would be a miraculous medicine that money cannot buy, capable of curing a hundred illnesses. Of course, that is no longer a physical body; that is the Buddha-body! How could their hair be tangled or look filthy? With a simple gesture, they resolve every problem for you. This is not the realm of ordinary people; this is the manifestation of Buddhas and Bodhisattvas, teaching us not to be attached to appearances, not to discriminate, and to let go of ego-attachment. They are teaching us! One must have that level of mastery to act in such a way; otherwise, if you try it yourself, you will find all sorts of illnesses manifesting. Therefore, one must know how to care for this physical body and see one's own situation clearly. This is recognizing oneself—it is a part of the 'self.'"
The Complexity of the Self
"If we are to speak of this 'self,' it is truly a matter of a thousand threads. It is better to speak broadly of the 'self' born of parents with a physical body, the 'self' of the spirit, and the 'self' contained within the heart. Oh, the Buddha’s teachings are truly brilliant! Everything, absolutely everything, can be seen clearly and explained through the . It all depends on whether you have the opportunity and the wisdom to receive it, to discover it, and to awaken your awareness. You also need Dharma affinity—to meet a true spiritual friend who can help, inspire, and guide you.
If we want to speak even more broadly, we reach the 'One-Body' perspective. In this view, everyone is oneself. But this 'self' is not the ordinary physical self; it is the self that has already awakened to its true nature. This is a different realm entirely. The Buddha’s teachings have no boundaries, for they are immeasurable and boundless; to have boundaries is to be limited. Yet, it seems I cannot find better words to express this, so let us understand it this way for now. Or, if you have better words, that is also good; you can share them with other friends and those with karmic affinity. Because my own learning and knowledge are limited, and I have not yet reached the immeasurable and boundless realm of the Buddha, please take every word I say today as a reference—just listen and observe.
There was a person named Shi Chin Kung. Namo Amituofo, in His , gave my spirit this topic: 'The Self.' So, I humbly reveal before the Buddha the 'self' that I have come to know. If there is still any deficiency, I look forward to the Buddha’s compassionate blessing. Before the Buddha, I am so small, yet I understand that in the Buddha’s heart, I am just like Him—equal to Him. This is the mind-capacity of the Buddha. Looking at my own heart, I feel immense gratitude, like a single drop of rain falling into the vast, endless ocean, embraced within it. There are no demands, no expectations; you can unfold yourself completely without any interference. Although it is just a drop of rain, to the ocean, it is the same as every other drop. The ocean does not think of itself as an ocean; it feels itself to be one of the drops. I am ashamed, truly ashamed! This is the realm of the Buddha."
The Journey into the World
"From the time I was in my mother’s womb until she gave birth to me, I arrived in this world to report for duty. Before that arrival, I grew in my mother’s womb as a fetus, and after birth, I was an infant. At that time, I had no influence, no opinions, and no views. My body was entirely shaped by the environment within my mother’s womb. Whatever she provided, I absorbed. How well I absorbed it, we only knew after I was born. Within this process, there were many hurdles. Many fetuses cannot remain in the human world; they pass away at birth, or leave during the process of labor, or the mother encounters a tragedy. Therefore, to be born as this 'self,' one must truly be grateful to one's mother—she is so great!
After I was born, my body began to function. I could breathe, and I cried loudly, which brought relief to everyone, as it meant I was alive. If you cannot cry, if your lungs cannot inhale air and exchange it with the outside, if you cannot make a sound, then your life is at risk. So, the first sound I made upon arriving in the human world was a cry, not a laugh. This is the natural sound of the body, and it tells the people of the world: 'I have arrived, I am here.' The abstract meaning is that I came into this world crying, because this world is full of suffering.
During those ten months of pregnancy, what was my spirit doing? I do not know if there are any documents or treatises exploring this. In my view, it depends on whether the spirit comes through the power of vows or the power of . Simply put, is it the spirit of a Buddha or Bodhisattva coming through the power of vows, or a spirit reincarnated through the six realms of existence? That makes a world of difference. If it is a spirit coming through reincarnation—which is the case for the majority—it carries karma and is governed by it. It also interacts with the physical body. If the birth is smooth, a healthy, lovely baby is born. Karma begins to act the moment the spirit enters the mother’s body. If it is good, then it is good; otherwise, it may lead to a miscarriage or cause problems for the mother’s health, or even result in a tragic, fatal hemorrhage during birth. This is karma already in motion. This is a very serious issue, involving the collective karma between one’s past actions and one’s mother."
The Heart and the Spirit
"Furthermore, regarding the state of the heart: we know that reincarnation is carried out by the soul, but where is the heart? The heart is with the soul, yet they are not the same. The Buddha’s teachings are the 'Dharma of the Heart,' because the heart encompasses the spirit. How your spirit acts is governed by the heart. Once you have a physical body, the influence of the heart expands even further. It can influence not only the spirit but also the physical body; the influence of the heart is truly vast. When one has a physical body, as soon as a thought arises, karma begins to turn, interacting with the outside world. Issues such as spiritual attachment and the manifestation of arise. How to face and operate through these issues is decided by the heart. In other words, the spirit and its nature are governed by the heart. Of course, in the process of growing up, it is not so simple; there are many factors influencing this heart. And as for the 'self'? When there is no body, the heart is the self, and the spirit is the self. When there is a body, it becomes more complex: the body is the self, the spirit is the self, and the heart is the self. So, when we talk about the 'self,' where do we begin? We must look at the body, heart, and spirit as a whole to see the 'self' as it is now.
This is the situation of an ordinary person entering the human world with the karma of reincarnation, the ten months in the womb, and how the heart influences the spirit and the body. I share this with you all. If it is a Buddha or Bodhisattva manifesting, or an ancestral master coming with the power of vows, it is different. In such cases, the Buddha, Bodhisattva, or master can observe the Causal Conditions and see when the spirit should enter the fetus. They can enter during the ten months of pregnancy to help the fetus grow, or they can enter only when the fetus is about to leave the mother’s body. After birth, the spirit is that of a Buddha or Bodhisattva, and such a spirit is purified. After all, during the ten months in the womb, there are various changes; the spirit of a Buddha or Bodhisattva is pure and without karma, so it does not need to be affected by these changes. Moreover, there will be auspicious signs at birth. There is also a more special situation: the spirit of a Buddha or Bodhisattva enters the fetus early, perhaps because the mother is in danger, and the spirit can manifest its power to resolve the crisis. The mother or the outside world may not understand what is happening, and the danger is averted without anyone knowing why. In fact, the spirit of the Buddha or Bodhisattva in the mother’s body is clear and bright, helping the mother overcome danger—perhaps to repay a kindness from a past life, or perhaps to deliver sentient beings."
Reflections on My Own Path
"Therefore, generally speaking, if a Buddha or Bodhisattva comes with the power of vows to manifest in the human world, the auspicious signs at birth will make the parents and surrounding relatives feel . They will know that this child has come with auspicious signs and must be different from ordinary children. This is very reasonable. To have the karmic affinity for the spirit of a Buddha or Bodhisattva to enter a body and manifest in the human world is extremely magnificent and not something one encounters often. One can imagine that this child will surely achieve great things to benefit the public, the nation, and even all of humanity and sentient beings. If parents are fortunate enough to have such a child, they must cultivate them well, because the child’s unique spirituality will lead to different manifestations of karmic affinity. In short, a child who comes through the power of vows is a help to everyone.
My own birth and growth were quite ordinary, much like any other child. Of course, it was a time of war, and life was difficult, but for a child, that is just how it is. If I was hungry, I ate; if I was cold, I had clothes to keep warm. I had no other demands. As a child, I was somewhat intelligent and obedient, and I was considered easy to raise. At that time, I was not yet polluted. I also created some karma alongside my father—the killing karma from hunting, which he brought upon us. In my heart, I knew it was cruel, but I had no way to change it. For this karma, having planted the cause, must one face the fruit? Of course, one must.
Fortunately, after I began to study the Buddha’s teachings and adopted a vegetarian diet, I stopped that karma. But for the karma of the past, must one face the consequences of what one has eaten? Of course, one must. Not a single bit of the laws of karma and cause and effect can be escaped; it is all within you. Everyone knows that the things we eat have spirits. If they can be purified while in your body, that is good for them; it is an opportunity for transformation. I believe that Buddhas and Bodhisattvas must have helped me purify the beings within my body, so that I could lecture on the Sutras properly. At the very least, I was not interfered with while lecturing. Occasional colds, runny noses, and phlegm—these are unavoidable. Living in this world, the body is subject to wind and cold. Is this karma? If you have awakened to your true nature, it means you have transformed your karma. Sometimes, this is not necessarily karma; it might be suffering on behalf of sentient beings. If you have not yet awakened, it is part of the karma you must endure. Follow the conditions to dissolve old karma, and accept it calmly. If the body suffers a little, it is as it should be; without this body, you could not dissolve this karma, so you should even be grateful."
The Shaping of Character
"So, when did I begin to interact with the outside world? It began after I was born, as I followed the changes in the environment. My six roots came into contact with , giving rise to the six consciousnesses. Once there is , there is karma. In the memories stored in the , some are tainted karma, and some are pure karma. Looking back, the tainted karma accounts for the majority. Some people are lucky; if they follow their parents in being vegetarian, chanting Namo Amituofo, prostrating to the Buddha, or even reciting the Sutras from a young age, they have the opportunity for purification and the opportunity to dissolve karma. That is fortunate. I grew up like an ordinary child, and I must have created quite a bit of karma in the process. So, once I interacted with the outside world, I began to create causes. As for whether they were good causes or negative causes, if one comes through reincarnation, one is under the operation of karma and lacks the ability to distinguish or choose. If a Buddha or Bodhisattva comes to manifest in the world, it is different. Their spirit is clear and bright, and they can use their physical condition to express the spirit’s intent, thereby avoiding the creation of negative causes. For example, some children are born vegetarian, or after birth, they cannot eat non-vegetarian food, otherwise, they will have diarrhea or vomiting. This is the spirit using the body’s reaction to express its intent, allowing them to avoid the negative cause of eating meat.
During the process of growing up, my personality was shaped. In general, my personality was relatively gentle. Occasionally, I would joke with classmates, and I knew how to follow the rules. I also understood the hardships of the environment and that things were not easily obtained, so I would not be wasteful. However, I did have some habits of arrogance, which manifested invisibly. Children who react quickly are more likely to receive praise from adults, so arrogance manifests unconsciously. Conversely, those who are more honest and react a bit slower are sometimes even teased by classmates. Although this is also their karma, at least they create fewer negative causes; they do not give rise to arrogance and thus create fewer negative causes."
The Path of Practice
"Looking at my entire education, because it took place under chaotic national conditions, it was generally fine. I was particularly interested in literature and calligraphy. At that time, when I read something that resonated with me, I couldn't help but smile. I liked to write, so later I enjoyed picking up a brush to paint with ink, which led to the creation of my calligraphy. Is this not also the habit of my past personality? Of course, the 'self' is a combination of the past and the present. Some children like to write, and some do not. I belonged to those who liked to write, which was also brought about by past habits. Fortunately, it later developed into a proper use, which is good. Some followers and Dharma protectors were very happy to receive my calligraphy. Being able to bring them joy, or to offer some warning or blessing, is all good—at least it is a positive influence.
Later, I followed the government to Taiwan. At that time, I truly did not know what would happen in the future, nor did I know where to go, so I could only take one step at a time. I was very fortunate to meet three teachers in this lifetime: first, Professor Fang Dongmei, then Master Zhangjia, and later, Lay Practitioner Li Bingnan—Teacher Li. These three teachers led me onto the path of studying the Buddha’s teachings and becoming a monk. My Dharma affinity with the Buddha’s teachings unfolded in this way. At that time, I was purifying and purifying again amidst the pollution, finding the goal and direction of my life. I told myself that once I found the goal and direction, I would go straight ahead. Life is limited; for one Dharma door, you must learn it thoroughly and obtain its essence. You must put in the work; there is no such thing as getting something for nothing. After I decided to put in the work in the Pure Land school, my heart became settled. In this series of processes, thoughts and intentions had arisen countless times. These fluctuations were all pulling forces of karma, both good and bad. The causes of good and evil and the thoughts themselves pull out the fruits of good and evil; this is inevitable. The Buddhas and Bodhisattvas must also be fair; it cannot be said that because you are this or that, you should suffer less, or because you are not, you should suffer more. It is just like that; when it is time to suffer, you must suffer; it cannot be changed. Therefore, during those days, it could be said that I lived a life mixed with good and evil.
After becoming a monk, this 'self' in the body generally did not have any major issues, and my spirit absorbed the Buddha’s teachings in large quantities. I was very serious and diligent, which was related to my past background. As for the part of understanding the Buddha’s teachings, that truly requires wisdom, which is also related to the past. Those with wisdom can avoid creating negative karma; those without wisdom easily make mistakes and create karma. No one wants to make mistakes or create karma, but although their spirit cannot act, their heart tells them how to do things, and the body can only follow the heart’s intent, thereby creating karma."
The True Self
"Fortunately, I still had some good roots. Along the way, I encountered setbacks, obstacles, and interference, but of course, I also had help, noble people, and true spiritual friends. I grew amidst this intersection. At that time, my body, heart, and spirit were truly interacting with each other; it was difficult to distinguish them, and I had never thought about seeing them clearly. I just moved forward step by step according to my study of the Buddha’s teachings. But looking back now, it was truly dangerous. After all, having a body, as a human, one knows relatively little about the spiritual part. As for the heart part, because studying the Buddha’s teachings requires putting in the work from the heart, I understood a little and learned a little. But if you pull the spiritual part aside and do not pay attention to it, it is as if something is missing; there is a lack of connection between the heart and the body.
You would not understand, nor would you investigate or explore which part is influencing you. Regarding the spiritual part, I did not know much, but I just went on like that. However, now that I have this opportunity to look at this part, I can truly see some clues. I believe this is also a problem for many practitioners. This involves the part of the soul. This is also something I have learned since arriving at the Western Dharma-Nature Land, studying with Namo Amituofo and Practitioner Su. Now that I have connected them, I am even more in awe of the Buddha’s teachings. It turns out that what I knew was only such a small part of the Buddha’s teachings; the spiritual part was neglected. Perhaps someone would say that the heart and the spirit seem to be indistinguishable anyway, as if they are tied together. Most people have this view.
Indeed, the two have an inseparable relationship, but if you want to distinguish them in detail, you can know that they are still different. If you want to have some understanding of the truth of reality, you must put in the work in this area. The soul is innate; it is brought with you from birth and follows you. It is fortunate that Practitioner Su has explored and pondered this aspect, and with the teachings of Namo Amituofo and Teacher Practitioner Xia Lianju, the mysterious veil has been lifted. Only then did I have the opportunity to know a little more. The soul is originally a part of the body. If your heart is not at peace, or if your heart cannot be the master, it leads to problems with your body. In medicine, there is what is called psychosomatic illness. I do not understand this very well, but I know a little bit: it is that psychological problems lead to physical illnesses, which is called psychosomatic illness; if physical problems produce psychological illnesses, that is called somatopsychic illness. I am not sure if this is correct, but looking at it now, whether it is psychosomatic or somatopsychic, the two can be causes and effects for each other. People in medicine may judge it this way, but in fact, one must explore the relationship from much earlier. This part is limited in medicine, but in the Buddha’s teachings, it can be laid out to be seen, but one must possess the skills.
In this stage of studying the Buddha’s teachings, and even in the sixty years of lecturing, if we want to talk about the three parts of body, heart, and spirit, it is complex. It can be said that if ordinary people can only stop, it is possible to truly solve the problem, and this cause involves the heart and spirit parts. As for the body part, most of the time you will look for a doctor or other methods to improve or solve your pain or discomfort. This is also the starting point for people to face this problem. In fact, this is already the fruit. As for the cause, the heart and spirit, I have not analyzed them so deeply myself. Most of the time, I just report to everyone according to what I have learned from the Sutras and treatises. As for my personal part, apart from the life story I just mentioned, to be honest, I did not ponder too much. Now I know that it is truly the heart that is the master, but whether this heart can be the master is a great subject. No wonder the true self is so important. We say the true self is that this heart can be the master completely; that is the true self, that is the self of permanence, joy, true self, and purity, that is the transparent and flawless self. This can truly only be done through the purification of the Buddha’s teachings—recovering the true self, becoming a Buddha, and being the master. At that time, it is becoming a Buddha, recovering the true self.
Of course, the Buddha has no self; He has no 'self.' At that time, the 'one-body' replaces the 'self.' Every sentient being is me, and every sentient being is one with me, so it is clearly understood without any distinction. That is the highest realm—there is no realm—at least it is very different from this ordinary self. Is this ordinary self being mastered by karmic creditors, or is it a self pulled by karma, by karmic creditors, or by your own soul? Or is it that your own soul cannot be the master at all, and it is completely mastered by karmic creditors? Or is it that you are still relatively pure, and when karma manifests, your karmic creditors also wake up and are watching by your side? At this time, your own soul can still be the master, but does your behavior affect whether you will suffer later?
There is also this heart, the so-called heart, which can involve the eight consciousnesses and fifty-one mental factors, the six consciousnesses produced by contacting the six dusts—eye, ear, nose, tongue, body, and mind consciousnesses—plus the Manas consciousness and the Alaya consciousness. These fifty-one mental factors, good and bad, are part of the Yogacara studies that everyone has learned before. But I do not want to say too many names here; names are added by people to make distinctions for everyone to learn easily. But regarding the spiritual part, including the body, heart, and spirit, are they not also distinguished by people? So there is no need to cause yourself too much trouble. Why distinguish them so clearly? In short, it is just 'me.' That is also true. The Buddha’s teachings are also very brilliant; they want us to purify, to be pure and good, to think well, speak well, and do well. We must be compassionate to people. The four immeasurable minds of compassion, joy, and selfless giving are truly applied universally to various situations, and they do not tell you how to do this or that. Therefore, if you want to have a complete self, when you cannot do certain parts, I believe the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas will certainly help you. If you want to save people, sometimes you have to have some skills; otherwise, you become the one who needs to be saved, so how can you save others? At that time, when you have the ability to be a savior, your skills include the parts you understand more than others.
For example, Practitioner Su can call back everyone’s three hun souls and seven po souls. Oh, this is incredible! I don’t think I have ever heard of this skill. Even if I heard it, I would think: 'What is this? What three hun souls and seven po souls need to be called back?' This is because my own skills were not perfected. If you really want to recover your true self, you really have to gather the souls back into this body so that the body can function properly. The souls play a very important role. This is what I know now. Some people are absent-minded. Why is the soul pulled out? Because their soul is not there and cannot be gathered, so they lose their standards in dealing with people and things, cannot be the master, and of course, there is no talk of to the true nature. If the souls return to the body, and the three hun souls and seven po souls are all there, the functions of the body can be imagined to be maintained on a track. Oh, this is truly very important.
This is what I learned here. I had never mentioned it before because I did not understand, and I did not know it was so important! The time is up. Alright, that is all for today. Namo Amituofo."
Shi Chin Kung, with palms joined.
At the Western Dharma-Nature Land of the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre, Australia.
