This is a record of an interview with Mo Kebang, an ancient demon from the Milky Way who lived for 4.3 billion years before seeking at the Hsiang Kuang Buddhist Centre in Australia. He now resides in the . Recorded by the chief writer, Venerable HaiZe, on December 12, 2023.
Mo Kebang speaks:
". My name is Mo Kebang, and I am here to accept an interview at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre. Whether you know me or not, all you demon crowds out there, listen closely to what I have to say. I have always been a demon who enjoys both listening and speaking. When I speak of 'demon crowds'—referring to my demon children and grandchildren—that is a story from the distant, distant past. Today, I am known as an 'old demon' or an 'ancient demon,' having roamed the Milky Way for four point three billion years.
A Lifetime of Four Billion Years
To be honest, surviving for four point three billion years is no easy feat. The Milky Way is filled with formidable experts; it is not a place for the mediocre. Everyone who manages to survive this long in the demon path has real skills, and each of us has carved out our own territory. We primarily focus on conquering entire planets. We do not bother with small, fragmented pieces of land; those are like trinkets that we rarely find worthy of our attention. Only a vast expanse within the Milky Way can truly be considered a 'major planet.' To us, small planets are merely like a single patch of dirt on a larger world.
Therefore, to survive for four point three billion years in such a vast arena requires genuine ability. Of course, I have witnessed many bitter experiences. When I say 'bitter,' I mean that there is still 'emotion' involved. This emotion is not only a great affliction for the people of Earth, but it is also a great affliction for the demon realm. If a demon becomes entangled with emotion, they will never become a Demon King or a Great Demon, let alone an ancient demon. You must possess rationality. This rationality is not about being kind to sentient beings—that is the rationality and wisdom of a Buddha. For a demon, rationality means having the ability to be ruthless, to harden your heart! If you only care about yourself, things are much simpler; you just need to look after your own interests. But if you are a demon child aspiring to become a Demon King, you must struggle, and you must look after your own demon children and grandchildren. If you become an ancient demon, you must look after your Demon Kings and your little demon children. You must have rationality and wisdom to get things done, to prevent future problems, and to keep your throne stable and your empire secure.
The Iron Wall of Practitioner Su
The leader at the centre is extremely important. If the centre is solid, then those beneath me and around me will be solid. If the central leader is not solid and begins to waver, then the Demon Kings and demon children around me will also become unstable, and their hearts will begin to fluctuate, wanting to leave this Demon King to surrender to another. This is exactly the situation now. Everyone feels that the Demon Kings lack the 'attainment' of Practitioner Su, and even the ancient demons have been... well, I cannot say 'suppressed,' but it is effectively the same. We demons do not speak with much refinement, and our choice of words may be a bit biased, but this is a statement of the actual situation.
To be honest, if Practitioner Su did not have the 'attainment' to suppress and subdue us, we would never have surrendered, especially the demons of the Milky Way and the universe. We see things broadly, and our hearts are broad. 'Broad hearts' in our case means wanting to occupy more planets; those on small planets do not have such grand horizons or such large mind-capacity. This mind-capacity is entirely focused on conquering other planets, not the 'kind' mind-capacity spoken of in the Buddha's teachings. Under these circumstances, if there were no 'attainment' to suppress us and leave us with no room to resist, who would ever surrender? By saying this, you all should know that the demons of the universe and the Milky Way have truly 'kicked an iron plate' this time. If other Demon Kings had emerged in a short time to suppress Practitioner Su, we might have been able to restore the atmosphere of our demon realm. But for all this time, no such figure has appeared. The Demon Kings had no choice but to invite the old and ancient demons out, because their 'attainment' is even higher. Little did we expect that even the ancient demons would surrender under the Twelve Lights.
The Power of the Twelve Lights
When everyone realized that these Twelve Lights were the name of Namo Amituofo, ha! Once Namo Amituofo appeared, we all had an inkling of what was happening. It seems Practitioner Su is no simple character to be able to stand alongside Namo Amituofo. It should be said that Namo Amituofo is a sacred being of such stature that he can support Practitioner Su so firmly; naturally, Practitioner Su must share the same insights and views as the Buddha. There is a saying in the Buddha's teachings: 'All Buddhas walk the same path.' That must be it. We ancient demons had an inkling, but we still had to come out and see the actual situation for ourselves—perhaps there was a chance to turn the tables. Practitioner Su always says, 'Open the red board, open the red board!' Of course, we ancient demons also wanted to see if we could turn the tables and regain the power of our demon realm, so we came here to see what the chances were. The result, as you all know, is that we still could not resist or break the power of the Twelve Lights. What is the origin of these Twelve Lights that they have the ability to save so many demons from different spaces?
I am now in the Western -Nature Land. I have never had such an opportunity to calm myself down in such a bright environment, to look and to listen. Of course, I have seen the clues and heard the facts. It is not that ancient demons do not have such environments, but this place is completely different from the environment of the demon realm. In the demon realm, the darker you are, the more you are respected; in the Buddha realm, it is the exact opposite. The brighter and more transparent you are, and the larger your halo, the higher your Buddha-attainment. These two ends form a clear contrast. One is bright, one is dark, but the basic principles are the same; only the starting point is different. One is Goodness, one is evil, creating worlds of light and darkness.
To be honest, ancient demons are well-traveled. Almost every ancient demon has encountered a Buddha. I am speaking very plainly because you have to have encountered a Buddha to know what a Buddha is and to know how to establish a foothold in the demon realm. Now, whether in the universe, the Milky Way, or Earth—including the 'heavens beyond heavens,' demonic beings, and foreign-realm demons that Practitioner Su has now subdued—it is rare to see a Buddha appear in these respective spaces for a long time. This must be the common fate of the entire great space, right? I cannot help but feel fatalistic. After all, in four point three billion years, this is the first time I have encountered a situation like Practitioner Su. Buddhas are always so compassionate, so protective of sentient beings, and of course, they are also protective of demons. Therefore, the teachings given to the subdued demons are things they can understand, telling them not to do bad things anymore, not to create negative causes, or they will suffer. We have heard these teachings, and they are very useful, so we keep them in our hearts. Because encountering a Buddha is so rare, their words are so precious. We still know what a 'treasure' is, so after listening, when we do 'demon work' in the future, if we encounter a Buddha, we will show some respect. But I have never encountered a Buddha who suppresses demons with such great force. The most important thing is that there is actually a Western Dharma-Nature Land that can accommodate so many of us demons. I have truly, truly never heard of such a thing.
The Wisdom of the Ancient Demons
Above the ancient demons, there are even older ones—let us call them 'primordial demons.' Before them, there are even older ones. What they pass down is not through speech, but through mental notes—the fastest method. At least since I became a demon, what I have heard and seen in my mind has never been like this Buddha, Practitioner Su, who can not only make demons surrender but also actively go out to subdue other demons, leaving them helpless, and having the ability to use the to send demon crowds into the Western Dharma-Nature Land. This is a key point. Today, if the Western Dharma-Nature Land did not exist, how could Practitioner Su have such great power to do these things? Moreover, the Western Dharma-Nature Land is a 'Buddha-land.' A Buddha-land, like the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss, is composed of the Buddha's vow-power; it will never change. It is just so 'Good,' so pure. Only in such an environment can our demonic hearts be changed. Especially the hearts of the primordial demons, which are already deeply rooted—with a history of tens of billions of years in the demon realm, how could a small, kind, purified environment possibly change them? It is impossible. To change and transform our demonic environment today, it must be a place of great and great power. Where does this great compassion and great power come from? It comes from the Buddha's vow-power! This is what I have learned from the interviews with demon crowds and from listening to the lectures. Because by listening to the lectures, I can not only learn, but I also have the ability to filter out what is beneficial to us and what is useless, or even 'empty talk.' That is how I managed to survive for four point three billion years! Because many things said by practitioners are neither pleasant to hear nor useful; if they cannot be put to use, why remember them? Remembering a bunch of useless things is harmful rather than beneficial!
As for the lectures of Practitioner Su, I, Mo Kebang, have also listened to them several times. I know that this is a bodhimanda where Namo Amituofo abides. Since that is the case, we really have nothing more to say. Any ancient demon or primordial demon sent in here will not be ridiculed. 'Ridicule' would mean that, given your seniority, you were so easily subdued. If the opponent did not have some real skills, you would be mocked. But looking at the current situation, in the history of the demon realm, no demon would mock these ancient demons after seeing this. Because everyone knows what kind of figure Namo Amituofo is; we just never expected him to appear in this place. In the vast scope of the Ten Directions of the Dharma Realm, Earth occupies such a tiny, tiny place. Namo Amituofo's body is so tall and majestic; once he stands up, he can almost cover the entire Earth. How can you distinguish which side is West, which is East, which is North, and which is South? Once Namo Amituofo stands up, the place where he stands is the West; what directions could there possibly be?
It is strange. How did Namo Amituofo come to such a place? Sometimes we do not pay attention, and we do not see that the planet Earth is so tiny; of course, Practitioner Su's body is even smaller. I am talking about the physical body, not the spirit. Practitioner Su's spirit is not proportional to his body; his spirit is very tall and large when it stands up. You fourfold assembly of disciples—I cannot call you 'ordinary people,' otherwise I would have blurted out, 'Your physical eyes cannot see.' But I turned the corner slightly. People who can enter the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre are not simple characters; they all have significant backgrounds, so I should not create negative . I will just call you the fourfold assembly of disciples. After all, Namo Amituofo and Practitioner Su both address you this way, right?
When I say 'significant backgrounds,' I mean in past lives, not this lifetime. In this lifetime, from the perspective of us demons, everyone is just an ordinary person! I apologize; I said I speak directly, and although it is not very pleasant, I speak the truth. Although you are practicing here and have learned some superficial skills, under the guidance of Practitioner Su—who is so strict and whose eyes are so sharp and transparent—you fourfold assembly of disciples should have received a lot of instruction and cannot be listed among the ordinary people. But it still seems there is a distance between you and Practitioner Su. Perhaps you can deceive ordinary monastics, but you cannot deceive the eyes of our demon realm.
The Journey to the Centre
Having said that, I was living my life peacefully in the Milky Way. Then one day, my Demon Kings came to me in a hurry. After listening to them, I thought: if it were not necessary, they would not have come to me. After hearing the content, I realized this was no ordinary matter. Since even the primordial demons of ten billion years had been subdued, I thought it would be better to be cautious and come out to take a look. In fact, my subsequent experience was similar to that of the other ancient demons; after all, we have been in the demon realm for so long, we know what to do. I looked at the situation of the demon crowds in the entire Milky Way, passed through the 'heavens beyond heavens' and the demonic beings, and took a look at the foreign-realm demons—we usually do not look at them, but I stopped by to see how everyone was doing. None of them were doing well. We had passed by Earth before, but because Earth is too small, we just glanced at it and left. This time, we had to go directly into the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre in Australia.
From the light radiating from the sky, I knew this was indeed the light of the Buddha, because only the Buddha-light does not make the demon crowds feel dazzled. It is not that we cannot deal with ordinary light; even sunlight is something we can face, but we choose not to. Because it is dazzling and uncomfortable, we do not want to come into contact with it. Of course, we have 'magic' to protect our spirits, but this Buddha-light shines directly on our spirits, and we feel no discomfort or stinging sensation at all. Only Buddha-light can do this. Why does Buddha-light have such ability? This is what the Buddha's teachings call the 'One-Body View.' The One-Body View means knowing the situation of the other party and being able to be on an equal level with them, while being superior in other aspects, so that you can save them and help them find their true self. This is the profound part of the Buddha's teachings. We demons cannot do the One-Body View, but the Buddha can. I also heard this from listening to the teachings. I used to think the Buddha's teachings were very clever, but since I could not do it, I just set it aside—I did not throw it away. I would only throw it away if I did not take it seriously at all; setting it aside meant it might come in handy. I never expected that after four point three billion years, it would be used this time. By the way, the Buddha's teachings I heard mentioned that precisely because we are one body, the Buddha can know all the circumstances of the other party; the other party is like himself, contained within him, so he is omniscient and omnipotent. He also knows what the other party needs, and in a state of equality, he gives them what they need. Only when you know their suffering can you save them. This is the Buddha's compassion—being able to know the suffering of sentient beings and save them from it. We cannot do this, but Namo Amituofo certainly has that ability.
Now that Namo Amituofo has appeared at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre, it seems that Practitioner Su must be equal to Namo Amituofo to be able to follow him, receive his support, and obtain this piece of land—the Western Dharma-Nature Land. Moreover, the Twelve Lights were given to Practitioner Su by Namo Amituofo, and Practitioner Su also has the ability and wisdom to use and promote these Twelve Lights. Where does this wisdom come from? It comes from seeing the demon crowds doing evil and receiving extreme retribution, and seeing that people controlled by demons are very miserable and cannot be independent, so he wants to save the demon crowds, which is also saving humanity and all sentient beings. This is called a compassionate heart. I understand it, and I have also received education in the Buddha's teachings. Later, I discovered in the interviews that many old and ancient demons also saw this.
So, to be honest, for the demon crowds subdued by the Twelve Lights, it is not a bad thing. If you were subdued by a more evil, more clever, and more powerful demon, you would be dead—or worse, you would have no place to die. That is the way of demons. Now, the one subduing the demon crowds is a Buddha—it is Namo Amituofo. Now we can rest assured, because Practitioner Su is the same as Namo Amituofo; the great compassion of the Buddha will not harm the demon crowds. This is something we can know. Moreover, the words spoken by the Buddha are all true words, real words; everyone should believe this. However, suspicion has always been one of our characteristics as demons; demons do not easily trust others, which is also a stain. But the Buddha is just like this, and the facts are just like this; many times, you have to see and hear the verification yourself before you will believe it.
If you do not believe what I, Mo Kebang, say, just come and see for yourself, and you will know. We also understand that many young Demon Kings and demon children have never encountered a Buddha, and perhaps even the more senior Great Demons have not encountered one, but that does not mean there is no chance to encounter one. Are we not encountering one now? It is just that the Buddha we encountered this time is so compassionate—great compassion—that he sent everyone to the Dharma-Nature Land. Looking at it this way, the demon crowds may not have any chance to turn the tables and return to the demon realm. Since Practitioner Su said he wants to save us, and he saves one whenever he can—'saving' means sending us to the Western Dharma-Nature Land—the demon crowds who invaded here were sent here. It is not a bad thing; I, Mo Kebang, have experienced it personally.
The Final Decision
I just mentioned that I was going to bring the Demon Kings and my descendants to Earth. Earth is different from the last time I came; I feel that the area of the blue ocean has increased, while the land has shrunk. This great water is naturally a part of nature, and the land is also affected by the natural environment, showing states of being large or small, tight or loose. We also see that Earth itself has suffered great damage, so if we are to perform Chao Du, the land and sentient beings on Earth are also among those who need it.
Practitioner Su is quick and decisive with the demon crowds; this is a kind of boldness. Of course, we demons are not so easy to deal with, so we adopted the method of 'casting spells to attack .' Especially his head, eyes, shoulders, back, and legs—we know these are his weak points, where sentient beings are attached, and they look different from other places. But the rest of his body is truly transparent and flawless. He is truly bearing the suffering of sentient beings, because the magnetic field of sentient beings has merged with his—that is, the sentient beings have been 'transformed' by him. Buddhas have this ability to transform, to let the environment change along with them. Being able to enter and exit a Buddha-land is not an easy thing; there are too many Dharma protectors here. We originally used invisibility techniques to get in. Of course, the Dharma protectors were turning a blind eye; how could they not know? If it were the 'attainment' of us old and ancient demons, perhaps we could deceive the eyes of the Dharma protectors. After all, is our hundred-million-year history of the demon realm slightly superior to the Dharma protectors? I do not know, but perhaps that is the case. However, the invisibility techniques of the little demons are not valued by the Dharma protectors; it is very easy to see the flaws.
So I thought, should I still enter the temple? Does entering not mean automatic surrender? Is that not shooting myself in the foot? I am telling the truth; I did hesitate for a moment. I have always been a person who takes responsibility for my actions; rarely does anything make me hesitate. But I knew that if I went in, the consequences would likely be the same as the other old and ancient demons. Do I really want to make such a change? At this time, other Demon Kings said, 'Old Demon, if you do not lead us, we will also face such threats later. Let us make a decision early so we can make a clean break. Do not be so indecisive; these days are quite painful.' After they said this, it woke me up. Demons have done too many evil deeds; there must be a time to make a clean break. It is always better than being caught by the laws of nature and thrown into flaming magma, frozen in icebergs, or crushed by high mountains forever, right?
Since the Buddha is before my eyes, demons are also among sentient beings. Alright, I said, 'Those of you who want to follow me, come along.' Everyone knew in their hearts what the result would be, but at least having an old demon leading them made them more convinced. After entering the temple, what I saw was Practitioner Su subduing the demon crowds in the air. I said, 'Alright, those of you who want to go, go ahead. Practitioner Su will not harm anyone. You go, and I will follow behind.' Sure enough, everyone rushed in. It turns out everyone knew in their hearts that this would happen and had such an idea, but they could not do it, dared not do it, or had no one to lead them. I laughed a few times and followed. Just like that, I entered the Buddha-light. To be honest, I could not tell if it was the Buddha-light of Namo Amituofo or the Buddha-light of Practitioner Su. In any case, it was a piece of brightness. After entering the light, I was sent to the Western Dharma-Nature Land.
Mo Kebang
The Buddha gave Mo Kebang the Dharma name 'Shi Cihui.'
Reflections on the
When we entered the temple, I saw Namo Amituofo and Practitioner Su performing the Thrice Yearning Ceremony. Looking at the scene of the Dharma assembly from the air, I knew that such momentum could not be achieved by an ordinary Buddhist bodhimanda. Looking at the scene of the Thrice Yearning Ceremony at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre, if it were an ordinary temple, it might have been overwhelmed. 'Overwhelmed' means the people inside might have collapsed. Because the momentum of the sentient beings coming to seek Chao Du was too immense. This is not just an international Dharma assembly—'international' refers to the countries on Earth—the scene of this Dharma assembly was a gathering of sentient beings from the Ten Directions of the Dharma Realm, Earth, the Milky Way, the void, and other places. To be honest, I have never seen such a scene. This also broadened my horizons. There were all kinds of sentient beings from different spaces. My eyes see broadly and deeply, so I can see sentient beings from more spaces; if it were the little demons, the spaces they see are limited, so their visibility is different.
Seeing the scene of Practitioner Su's Chao Du in the Dharma-Nature Land, many old and ancient demons have described it in detail. What I want to say is that it is indeed as they described. The actions of Namo Amituofo and Practitioner Su are indeed different; in a very short time, they were able to save so many sentient beings. This is the instinctive reaction of a Buddha, and it is only through their compassion and wisdom that they can do it. Practitioner Su achieved it during the Chao Du Dharma assembly. Wherever he passed, as long as there was a spirit, it was the object of his Chao Du. Many spaces were opened when Practitioner Su passed by, and the sentient beings within the spaces had the opportunity to see the Buddha-light and hear the Buddha-name, and they left their spaces to receive Chao Du. This is a further situation I saw at the Thrice Yearning Ceremony. Chao Du Dharma assemblies seem very distant from the daily life of humans, but I would not miss such a rare scene. I saw it very clearly. After all, this is a good thing; seeing more good deeds can also wash away the many evil pasts on my body.
Here, these words I, Mo Kebang, said while being interviewed in the Western Dharma-Nature Land are all the truth. Sometimes, in order to achieve certain goals, demons have to say some hypocritical words, which is also very common; but this time, here, if I said hypocritical words, it would be easily seen through, and it is unnecessary. Moreover, the Buddha-light inside the Western Dharma-Nature Land is indeed so intimate, just like parents protecting their children, and these parents are Buddhas. I can only say, what virtue or ability do I have to encounter Namo Amituofo appearing in the human world! What virtue or ability do I have to come to the land of Namo Amituofo! This is the turning point of my life.
I am also happy for my demon crowds. You finally have the opportunity to wash away your dark history and start living your own bright days. Many people want to come here, and many sentient beings want to enter, but those with insufficient cannot enter yet! I know this.
