This is a record of an interview with the ancient demon Mo Liu, who was subdued by Practitioner Su through the sounding of the great chime bowl at the Hsiang Kuang Buddhist Centre in Australia. This account reflects upon his existence spanning over twenty-six trillion years. Recorded by the chief writer, Venerable HaiZe, on October 23, 2023.
Mo Liu (Shi Molai) speaks:
"You may call me an 'old demon' or an 'ancient demon'—it makes no difference to me. Those are merely names, and at this stage of my existence, they have lost all significance. After witnessing the passage of countless suns, moons, and stars, and observing the rise and fall of so many demon crowds, I find that the current Demon Kings and their descendants barely show any respect, even if they happen to recognise me. If you mention 'ancient demon' or 'old demon' to them, they just sneer, dismissing us as 'old-fashioned' relics who are out of touch with the times.
The Arrogance of the New Generation
It is exactly like the human world. You humans treat ancient legends and the wisdom passed down by your elders with total disdain, believing only in your own limited perspectives. Aren't demons just beings with strong personalities, self-righteousness, and intense subjectivity? That is precisely why many of the new, emerging demons don't believe in the wisdom left behind by the ancient ones; they dismiss it all as mere superstition. If I call myself 'Mo Liu', they might show a shred of respect. But call me an 'ancient demon', and they won't even spare a second glance—they don't want to waste their breath. The logic is identical. In my view, humans and demons are remarkably similar; demons simply amplify the weaknesses of humanity. In the context of spiritual practice, we call these 'weaknesses', but in the mundane world, they are considered 'essential personality traits'. When these traits are intensified and hardened, you call us demons.
Earth: A Precious Training Ground
I have come to understand modern humans because I needed to understand Practitioner Su. I haven't set foot on Earth for a very long time. I know this planet is a precious land. Why do I say that? Because many Buddhas and Bodhisattvas have manifested here, enduring immense trials and tribulations to attain Buddhahood. It is not without reason. This precious land offers practitioners countless opportunities for tempering. When you possess a physical body, passing these trials makes you 'precious'; failing them leads to a fall—you become a demon, suffer in the hells, or at the very least, fall back into the cycle of rebirth. Of course, demons aren't exclusive to Earth. The void is vast and boundless. When Practitioner Su strikes the chime bowl, doesn't he call out to the 'Earth demons, universe demons, Milky Way demons, and the demons from beyond the heavens'? We know these beings exist. In fact, demons exist throughout the entire Realm and the void. Wherever you see sentient beings, there are demons. And wherever sentient beings exist, there is the potential for Buddhahood, because all beings possess Buddha-nature. This logic is consistent. That is why where there is Buddha, there is Mara; where there are beings, there are both Buddhas and demons—because they all share the same true self."
The reason for this recent turn of events is that Practitioner Su has, over these past few years, repeatedly achieved miraculous results in subduing the demon crowds. Beyond subduing the great demon of the pandemic and other significant demon kings, he has recently been using twelve rays of Buddha-light to subdue the demon crowds. Just these past two days, he had a sudden inspiration: he placed the large chime bowl, gifted to him by his teacher, the Great Master Xuanzang, in mid-air. He then visualised the demon crowds that were casting spells to attack his body—as well as the Earth demons, void demons, universe demons, Milky Way demons, demons from beyond the heavens, and evil spirits and externalist demons that he often mentions—all being drawn into the chime bowl and delivered to the Western Land of Dharma Nature. This event is truly earth-shattering! He is physically at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre, yet through visualisation alone, he can subdue so many demon crowds. This act of creation is something even an ancient demon like me could not escape. I was gathered into the Western Land of Dharma Nature, which is the only reason I have the opportunity to speak these words now.
A Choice Made in the Stars
Although I am called a demon, I believe in karmic affinity. This is an undeniable fact; there is no need to be in denial or make things difficult for myself. It was my own carelessness. Originally, I was in the starry expanse outside the Milky Way, not on the list Practitioner Su had called out. However, I received requests from the Milky Way demon crowds—repeated, persistent requests—so I agreed to return to the Milky Way with them to see what was happening. It must be that I have a karmic connection with Buddha or Practitioner Su. I quickly gained an understanding of Practitioner Su. I told the demon kings: "You must prepare yourselves mentally for this. Practitioner Su was no ordinary person in his past lives, so the fact that he could realise his true nature in this lifetime is something many practitioners cannot achieve. Furthermore, he is able to accept such heavy slander—slander that comes from those closest to him, from the very followers who accompany him. To be able to have a temple in Australia, a place with such high costs of living, is the first step in revealing the ray of hope of the Buddha's teachings. Moreover, he is willing to suffer on behalf of beings, even to the point of injuring his legs, and the lay practitioners around him have also resolved to leave the home life—this is truly extraordinary. Most importantly, he has the assistance of Amitabha Buddha!"
The Power of Amitabha Buddha
Upon hearing the four words "Amitabha Buddha," I felt a tingling sensation throughout my entire body and told them: "Since Amitabha Buddha is residing at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre, I advise you demon crowds to be sensible, pinch your noses, and just mind your own business. Do not get involved in this, lest you find yourselves unable to protect your own lives." They would not listen. If they will not listen, they must accept their own fate. It seems that by using the word "fate," I am a fatalist—though not entirely. Having seen so much, I have to believe that many things are arranged by karmic affinity and destiny. Yet, the fact that I have lived until now is also because I have been able to carve out a bright future for myself, independent of destiny's arrangements.
However, I do possess the skill to still my heart. When I enter deep meditation, my heart is stilled, and this ability has saved me. To "still the heart" means that all the affairs, big and small, outside of this spirit do not move a single hair on my body; they do not stir my heart. This ability has stopped me from creating further evil. Moreover, what I say to the demon crowds now is from the bottom of my heart. I am not advising them: "Go! Use all your strength to take down Practitioner Su, or even turn the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre into a demon lair." Everyone, be careful! This is not impossible. If Practitioner Su were not here, the current practice of you fourfold assembly disciples would not be taken seriously by the demon crowds. However, we cannot deny that among the current fourfold assembly, some have a bright future, because we can see their past lives. To be able to come to the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre in this lifetime, to become a disciple under Amitabha Buddha, and to become a monk or nun is not an easy thing, for among them are those who can achieve great things.
The Weaknesses of the Human World
Therefore, one cannot underestimate them in the future. It is just that the current situation is as it is. After all, the current fourfold assembly of monks and nuns all come from the world and are polluted by it, which is the most advantageous point for us. Demon crowds are best at exploiting this—what you call your weaknesses, the weaknesses of people. We control these monks and nuns of the fourfold assembly based on their weaknesses. The heavier one's personal ego and selfishness, the easier it is for us to control them. They have the potential for great good or great evil. Those of great good are saved by Amitabha Buddha and Practitioner Su, and will become pillars of the Buddha's gate. Those of great evil simply refuse to listen to counseling. There are several we see who are under our control; they refuse to listen, so they have no choice but to be lost in the cycle. They cannot be saved, and in the future, they will be among our "demon children and grandchildren," or even become demon kings themselves. This is what I mean by great good and great evil. It is just like the demon crowds: the worse one is, the heavier the habits, and the more useful they are to us if they listen. If they do not listen, they have to go and fight until they are broken and bleeding, and whether they can even establish a foothold in the Demon Realm later is a question. The human world and the demon crowds are the same. Everything I say is the truth. Buddhas speak the truth; why wouldn't an ancient demon speak the truth? I do not boast, because I believe that "there are people beyond people, and heavens beyond heavens." Boasting is just making things difficult for myself. Perhaps this is why I have been able to stand in the Demon Realm for so long.
The Truth of the Dharma-Nature Land
Returning to the matter at hand, I received requests from many great demon kings in the Milky Way, saying: "Go to the Milky Way and take a look, and you will know." Not long after I arrived in the Milky Way and gained an understanding of Practitioner Su, and had made things clear to the great demon kings, I encountered the sound of Practitioner Su's large chime bowl. Before I could even figure out what was happening, I was sucked into the chime bowl and arrived here at the Western Land of Dharma Nature.
Only after arriving here did I understand the whole situation. It turns out that what I understood from the demon kings was only a fragment. Practitioner Su's true skill lies behind the scenes, which is where I am now. This is why I warned the demon crowds not to get involved in this, because Amitabha Buddha is present in this. Amitabha Buddha's is infinite and all-encompassing. The place where the Buddha resides, the Western Land of Dharma Nature, is a place that we demon crowds respect and keep our distance from, not daring to approach. Now that I am joining Practitioner Su to subdue the demon crowds, even though I am in the Western Land of Dharma Nature, I still advise the demon kings, demon children, and demon grandchildren to pinch their noses and weigh their own worth.
The Weight of the Western Pure Land
Amitabha Buddha's Western Land of Ultimate Bliss has, over ten kalpas, gathered those who are supremely Good. In the vastness of the universe, and even in the boundless star systems beyond the Milky Way where I reside, many Buddhas and Bodhisattvas believe in this place and even go there to practice. If such a teaching master has come to Earth to transform it into a Pure Land on Earth, if he intends to transform the Milky Way—and even the Earth demons, universe demons, Milky Way demons, demons from beyond the heavens, and evil spirits and externalist demons that Practitioner Su speaks of—into a Pure Land, let me tell you, this is not impossible! Even though the vastness of the Dharma Realm is so great, I tell you, the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss is boundless. No matter how large the Dharma Realm is, there is still the word "large" to describe it; but the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss is boundless, and no words or language can describe it. So, everyone, including the demon kings and great demons, search your hearts and think: which carries more weight? Everything I say now is the truth. Of course, if there are those who do not believe, I am sure there are, then go and try it for yourselves, go and experience it.
Having said that, for me, an ancient demon, to be able to be in the Western Land of Dharma Nature now can be considered a very good conclusion to my life in the Demon Realm. To be caught in the large chime bowl under the hands of Amitabha Buddha and Practitioner Su—and this chime bowl was a gift from the Great Master Xuanzang—the combination of these three is something I believe the demon crowds truly cannot resist. I am grateful; it is the best conclusion to my life in the Demon Realm. I had long prepared myself, thinking that my end would be to be torn apart, which is the for my actions and history in the Demon Realm—being torn apart, or suffering in the ice hells or being burned by magma, was unavoidable. Yet, Amitabha Buddha and Practitioner Su are so filled with great compassion. Even after Practitioner Su suffered so many attacks from demon kings, he could still continue to use this great compassion to subdue demons rather than harm them. Here, as an ancient demon, and on behalf of many demon kings, demon children, and demon grandchildren, I offer my deepest respect and gratitude to both of them. This is the greatest difference between a Buddha and a demon.
Demon Flow
The Buddha gave Demon Flow the Dharma name "Shi Mo Lai."
Reflections of Shi Mo Lai (Demon Flow) on Attending the
In less than a day, seeing the power of the Buddha's teachings displayed in Practitioner Su's Thrice Yearning Ceremony here in the Western Land of Dharma Nature, honestly, I could not help but smile. If one were to call Practitioner Su an ancient Buddha returned, it would not be an exaggeration. Let me tell you, I have revealed a secret! Hahaha, do not think that because she is a female lay practitioner, in the identity of Senior Sister Su, that you can look down on her. I just mentioned that many Buddhas and Bodhisattvas manifest on Earth, in the world; some do so to achieve their own Buddha's path, and some come to save beings. This word "save"—the scope of "beings" is too vast, and demons are one of them. I see that the vow Practitioner Su made this time is to come to Earth to subdue demons, which is why he has such great power and can receive the assistance of Amitabha Buddha's twelve rays of Buddha-light. I never expected to meet both of them. Honestly, I have heard of the Infinite Life Sutra before. Now that this Dharma Jewel has fallen into the hands of Practitioner Su, he will certainly not let it go! This is what is meant by "all Buddhas walk the same path." He knew it was a treasure at a glance because he himself is a treasure; of course, he can recognise what a treasure is! If one is not a treasure oneself, even if a precious jewel were placed before one, one would not even glance at it, just like many arrogant demon kings, demon children, and demon grandchildren today, and just like some practitioners who have achieved a little success. I am speaking the truth. Therefore, I am not surprised by the great power Practitioner Su displayed at the Thrice Yearning Ceremony; rather, I understood it in my heart. I have truly witnessed that when Buddhas and Bodhisattvas save beings, they have special methods beyond the ordinary, which is the only way they can save the beings and demon crowds of this age of the Dharma's decline.
"Indeed, using the large qing to subdue the demon crowds in the air is a method I have never seen from any of the patriarchs and venerable masters I have encountered before. I know that the qing itself possesses a truly miraculous power to subdue demons and capture spirits, but this ability depends entirely on whose hands it is placed in. In the hands of a Buddha or , it is imbued with their divine power. In the hands of an ordinary person, or someone who does not believe—someone who views the Buddha’s teachings as mere superstition—it is, of course, no more useful than discarded waste. This is just like the demon crowds themselves; for a demon’s ritual implement to be used for Goodness, the demon must also believe in that implement. I can only sum it up in one sentence: being able to meet Practitioner Su is a turning point for all of you."
The Necessity of Demons in the World
"After all, I am a demon myself. I cannot say things that would discourage my kind, but I can speak the truth. However, I must be careful not to make my fellow demon crowds feel disheartened, as discouragement is not a good thing for us. So, let me ask you: if there were no demons, could the preciousness of the Buddha be highlighted? If there were no demon crowds to skillfully attack the weaknesses of human nature, where would the Buddha’s teachings be applied? The presence of demons only serves to further demonstrate the great utility of the Buddha. Of course, if there were no demon crowds, it would be a world of pure Goodness and purity—that is called the world of the Buddha. But in the current human world, or anywhere in the vast universe, unless it is a pure and good Buddha-land established by the Buddha-heart and Buddha-vow, everywhere else is a place where both Buddha and demon coexist. This is especially true for the human world on Earth in this Five Turbidities and Evil World. Since ancient times—at least from the time of Shakyamuni Buddha until now—this world has been described as a Five Turbidities and Evil World. How much more so is it today?"
A Warning to the Demon Realms
"It is truly miraculous! In this age of the Dharma’s decline, which Buddha or Bodhisattva would dare to manifest in this world? If one does not have the true strength and capability, how could one dare to climb Mount Liang? If one lacked that true power, one would have long ago been trampled under the feet of the demon crowds, ignored and dismissed by them. This is exactly where the demon crowds are bringing trouble upon themselves today. At the very least, when it comes to practice, one should show a little respect! Why must you force them into a corner and refuse to give them any face? This is my advice to the demon crowds: everything has its laws of and cause and effect. It is enough to let the other party receive their retribution while creating the absolute minimum of karma for yourself. Do not go to extremes. The more extreme one’s actions, the heavier the karmic retribution. When that time comes, you might not be lucky enough to encounter Namo Amituofo residing here, or Practitioner Su coming again to save the demons, or even just the use of the qing to subdue demons and send them to the Western Land of Dharma Nature to change their character and become a Buddha! You might never encounter such a blessing in all your lives, and you will suffer endlessly. It is bitter—too bitter! That is why my demon stream is so grateful for this encounter. I never expected that my life as a demon would end in this way."
The Path to Deliverance
"Furthermore, regarding the actions of Practitioner Su and the Thrice Yearning Ceremony at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Center, it has already been written very clearly in the interviews with many Demon Kings. It is truly spectacular. Saving so many demons, saving so many beings—the numbers are countless and beyond calculation. I am speaking of the main point: if you wish to leave suffering behind and gain happiness, and not be controlled by us demon crowds, then all you ghosts, spirit realm beings, or demon crowds who have suffered through the vicissitudes of life, come here quickly! Practitioner Su is sincere. Of course, many Demon Kings are also sincere in wanting to suppress Practitioner Su, to stop him from continuing his work. I cannot act as a peacemaker in this place, but I can speak a few words of fairness. Perhaps both sides should take a step back. I believe that the cooperation between Amitabha Buddha and Practitioner Su to transform the Demon Realm into a Pure Land is not impossible, but it will likely consume a great deal of time. And we must also consider the current situation of the fourfold assembly and whether their lives can endure being controlled in this way."
A Final Plea for Peace
"Alright, I have said enough. In the end, I hope that this does not result in mutual destruction. The 'harm' I speak of, of course, does not refer to harming Amitabha Buddha or Practitioner Su, but rather to the fourfold assembly. On the other side, I also hope that the demon kings, demon children, and demon grandchildren can stop their actions and leave a path of survival for themselves. A path of survival is not something given by others; it must be earned by oneself."
