The Demon King's Transformation: An Interview with Mo Wenhao

This is a record of an interview with the spirit of Mo Wenhao, a Demon King who sought to obstruct the establishment of the Pure Land School headquarters. After seven days of purification in the Western Dharma-Nature Land, he has shed the arrogance and haughtiness he possessed upon his arrival. He now resides in the Western Dharma-Nature Land. This interview was recorded by the chief writer, Venerable HaiZe, on October 27, 2021.

Mo Wenhao (Shi Yuanzhuan) speaks:

"Namo Amituofo. I am Mo Wenhao. After these seven days of cleansing and purification in the Western Dharma-Nature Land, I no longer possess the arrogance and haughtiness I had when I first arrived. That haughtiness stemmed from the belief that no monastic, practitioner, or lay person on Earth could escape the resistance or control of us demon crowds, because we understand human nature all too well!"

The Demon's View on Spiritual Expansion

"For many monastics, practitioners, or lay people who wish to expand the reach of the Buddha’s teachings, the purity of their hearts does not always correlate with the scale of their influence. If the leader or the one presiding over the Dharma is not purely virtuous and carries hidden impurities that their followers fail to notice, we demon crowds often turn a blind eye to their expansion. After all, how can a Dharma developed from a heart that is not purely good truly propagate the spirit of the Buddha? When people are in need of spiritual reliance but cannot see the true face of these practitioners, why not let them expand? In the end, they simply become another channel for us to exploit. It is like pushing a boat along with the current—why not?

However, if a practitioner is truly sincere, working solely for the benefit of suffering beings with a heart that is pure and unstained, the construction of their bodhimanda is no small matter! The impact of such a place is profound and far-reaching. One can see this in the daily actions of such a practitioner; everything they do is for the benefit of others. Over time, the number of beings—whether human or otherwise—who are transformed and taught by them is significant. In the eyes of such a practitioner, all beings are equal and all are objects of salvation. If they were to expand their reach to accept more beings, the impact would be limitless. Most importantly, the Dharma they teach would be the True Teachings. This is something the demon crowds of the age of the Dharma’s decline absolutely cannot allow to happen. When their influence was still small, they had already performed earth-shattering deeds that benefited beings and shook the Demon Realm. If they were given the chance to expand further, how could the Demon Realm survive? I am speaking, of course, of the actions of Practitioner Su at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre in Australia, and now, his plan to build the headquarters of the Pure Land School."

A Challenge to the Demon Realm

"It has only been a few years since the name of the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre reached the Demon Realm, yet several incidents have occurred that have made us—who specialize in obstructing the True Teachings—break into a cold sweat. We have even lost many of our great generals, who have now been subdued by the temple. We understand very clearly that a temple where the Teaching Master of the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss resides in person is certainly no minor player. The primary leader is Practitioner Su. After investigating his background, we gained a deeper understanding of his past lives. It made our elders in the Demon Realm shake their heads; encountering such a figure is truly a massive challenge for us.

Based on our knowledge of the Buddhist world, when ancestral masters descend to the human world and manifest the realization of their true nature, their actions are often fearless of death, fame, or temptation. They live solely for the sake of helping beings leave suffering behind. Even when faced with interference from the Demon Realm, they advance without fear. In such cases, we can only sigh and say, 'I suppose this is the karmic fortune of sentient beings.' This has been our experience when targeting temple monastics and Dharma protectors. But because of this, we could not sit idly by regarding Practitioner Su’s actions. If we did, how would the Demon Realm, which specializes in targeting practitioners, survive? As long as one practitioner has realized their true nature, it causes our Demon Realm to stall for a long time, unable to expand, and even forces us to shrink. Furthermore, Practitioner Su’s Dharma Body deliverance is famous far and wide—within the Earth, outside the Earth, throughout the Milky Way, and across the Dharma realm of emptiness. These are all within his scope of deliverance. With such powerful practice and actions, it is no wonder that Namo Amituofo has descended to reside here. Now that news has spread of the construction of the Pure Land School headquarters, we could no longer remain idle, so I brought my demon children and grandchildren to get a closer look at Practitioner Su."

The Recognition of a True Master

"Finding Practitioner Su was not difficult. The light radiating from him told us that he was no ordinary practitioner. How many people in history have been able to realize their true nature as a lay practitioner and accomplish things that even monastics cannot? He is not an ordinary figure; he is someone who can stand shoulder-to-shoulder with the Buddhas. One can count such people on one's fingers. I did not expect to see the likes of the ancient Vimalakirti appear in the form of Practitioner Su in modern times. This alone made us extremely cautious. In truth, whether one is a lay practitioner or a monastic, these identities and precepts are norms established by the human world to provide practitioners with a direction for restraint so they may achieve success. However, for highly spiritual and highly enlightened saviors, even without these norms and constraints, they can still practice according to the Universal Principles and develop even purer and higher achievements. For such practitioners, the demon crowds actually hold a degree of respect. Most of them have practiced through many kalpas and lifetimes, and are even Buddha or Bodhisattva who have come again. We can foresee and witness that the establishment of the Pure Land School headquarters will benefit countless suffering beings!

That day, after we met Practitioner Su, we attacked his legs and knees directly, causing cramps, intending to ask him to stop: 'Do not advance with such large strides; the beings do not have the karmic fortune to receive this!' Even if it were established, we would still obstruct it from within. Usually, if a practitioner receives such a warning from the demon crowds, they would slow down or stop, fearing that their hard-earned reputation and status might be damaged by their own selfishness and fear. But to our surprise, Practitioner Su remained fearless in the face of our wave after wave of interference. It was a very firm heart! More importantly, Practitioner Su has the ability to subdue us one by one. In his eyes and hands, subduing the demon crowds is so simple. Once we manifest before him, we cannot escape his Buddha-palm. This is an ability that makes us demon crowds vigilant and fearful.

In my three thousand years in the Demon Realm, I have seen many practitioners, but I have never suffered such a crushing defeat as this time. Most people, after being persuaded or subdued, would let the demon crowds return. But never before have we seen a situation like this, where not only were countless demon crowds subdued, but their hearts found a place of reliance, turning toward the Buddha’s path, making it impossible for them to return—and naturally, they would never return to the Demon Realm. This is something that only a Buddha, or someone under the blessings of the Buddha, can achieve."

A Past Life in the World of Spirits

"Three thousand years ago, China was a world of Taoism, with various schools and sects. I grew up in a devout Taoist family. My grandparents and parents attached great importance to the memorial days of our ancestors and the ancestral hall. On many days for worshipping immortals and deities, they would prepare sumptuous meals. Vegetarian food was not popular then; meat was used for offerings. My grandmother would instruct my mother on what to pay attention to during the worship. The day I was born, at high noon, my father invited a Taoist priest to the house to preside over the event, hoping that my mother’s delivery would go smoothly and that he could help our family produce a good descendant. Indeed, my mother gave birth to me smoothly, and I was a boy—the eldest grandson and eldest son of the family. The Taoist priest frowned after looking at me, saying that I was born with eyes of different sizes, a pair of eyes capable of seeing the spiritual realms, and that my forehead was full—a very special physiognomy. Although it promised great wealth and status, and a life without worry for food or clothing, that pair of eyes capable of seeing through the spiritual realms would bring me sorrow and worry, a life that could not be enjoyed properly. My parents took these words of the Taoist priest to heart.

Sure enough, from a young age, I often saw ghosts from the spiritual realms. After telling my parents, I was scolded: 'Those unclean things, don't look at them!' I said yes, but my eyes clearly saw them—how could I not look? I began to understand the feelings of adults who could not see and did not want to see, because knowing would make their hearts uneasy, restless, and fearful. So, I gradually pretended that what I saw was not there, but that was truly difficult. For example, when a lonely wandering spirit or a small ghost entered a child’s body, I had to pretend it didn't happen and even play with them. I knew he was no longer himself, so I naturally stayed far away from him. Gradually, I became less talkative and stopped interacting with people.

I grew up like this. When I saw the bride my uncle was about to marry, she looked beautiful and was smiling, but there was a child spirit making faces following her. That was the child the bride had lost in a past life; he had found his mother in this life and was following her closely. I thought to myself that my uncle had a ghost child before he even had a child of his own, but of course, I could not say anything. But this ghost child knew I could see him and often asked me to play. I didn't want to play with him, which made me very tired, so I had to tell my mother. My mother invited a Taoist priest to capture the spirit, and he really did take the child away, and he disappeared, so I returned to peace."

The Realization of Two Worlds

"From then on, I knew that humans have the human world, and ghosts have the ghost world; they are unrelated, and living in peace is best. So, with no one to guide me and my ability suppressed by everyone, I kept to myself, which made my face look less than cheerful, and my heart more depressed and mature than other children. Because I could see the spiritual realms and knew the situation of the other world, I came to a conclusion: there are two different standards for human actions—one is the human standard, and the other is the spiritual standard. For example, a person whom adults call a 'great person' might be doing shameful things behind their backs, which I could know from the large group of karmic creditors following them. They would show me the shameful things that person did in secret. I could see ghosts, and I could see light. If a person had light on them, it meant they were a truly good person; if they carried dark energy, it meant that person would have bad luck. So, I developed my own views and methods. I decided not to marry, no matter how my parents tried to persuade me, because I understood in my heart that few people are truly themselves. I didn't want to see my wife’s body occupied by another soul, living together with other ghosts.

I did not live happily because the opportunities to see light were too few, and the opportunities to see darkness were too many! I didn't like myself like this. Later, I gave up; I didn't want to hide what I saw anymore, so I spoke directly to the ghosts. Others thought I was mentally ill, but actually, I was perfectly fine. My parents invited a Taoist priest to save me, but I ended up pointing out the pile of ghosts following the priest and their relationship with him, which scared the priest away! It seemed my attainment was higher than the priest’s. Eventually, my parents could do nothing with me and let me develop as I pleased. I was living, but I could never calmly accept the difference between myself and others, so I appeared crazy.

When I was forty, I fell ill. Amidst a crowd of ghosts waiting for me, I breathed my last. My soul would have been taken away by them into their world of ghosts, but a black, sinister wind arose, covering the earth, taking my spirit away into a world darker than the gray ghost world—the Demon Realm. This was a strange world. I asked them, 'Why did you bring me here?' They said the Demon King was about to expand their territory and wanted to absorb some souls capable of seeing various spiritual realms into the Demon Realm. Because such souls could effectively see which Taoist priests were controlled by ghosts; they could absorb some Taoist priests with crooked minds who took money from believers to do evil, control them to continue doing evil, and then bring them into the Demon Realm! And so, three thousand years passed in the Demon Realm, from controlling Taoist priests to controlling monastics and practitioners."

The Nature of Practice and the Demon Realm

"Tao and Buddha, Buddha and demon, are actually just different states of the human heart. If it is purification, a good heart, then whether in Taoism or Buddhism, it is good; if it is stained, bad, or deviant, then whether in Taoism or Buddhism, it corresponds to the Demon Realm. Whether it is called Buddhism or Taoism, it is just a distinction people make. In fact, in the entire natural world, Buddha and Tao are both part of nature; they have always existed and cannot be so clearly separated. Many principles are interconnected; it is only the distinctions in the human heart that lead to various differences and sects. But if one is a true practitioner, one should understand very clearly that Buddha and Tao are fused together, mutually accepting and inclusive. Making distinctions only limits one’s own practice, making it impossible to understand the truth of the facts.

Through my efforts, my demon nature increased. I specialized in finding practitioners with crooked hearts, making it impossible for their practice to follow the righteous path. The scope of practitioners is very broad. As long as one has the heart to get rid of their current self, to end the suffering of birth and death, and to seek the truth, they can be classified as a practitioner. Of course, besides Taoist priests and monastics, this includes many shamans, ritualists, and even mediums who deal with the spiritual realms. If these people act according to the righteous path, we generally observe them, mainly looking at their hearts. If this heart is sincere, kind, selfless, and not thinking of one's own benefit, as long as what they do does not conflict with us demon crowds and does not affect our operations, the Demon Realm generally keeps its distance. If these people have one face in public and another in private, carrying jealousy, resentment, seeking fame and profit, or even carrying lust—even if it is only a very subtle thought without actual action—such thoughts and fluctuations are equivalent to a call to us demon crowds, and they are all objects we can control.

So-called 'demon tests' can be interpreted as 'the demon crowds manifesting desires that a practitioner should not have, such as wealth, lust, fame, food, and sleep, to see if they can resist these benefits or temptations.' If they cannot resist and enter these demonic realms, then they have failed the demon test, and the result is retribution in this lifetime! If they are not discovered, do not receive retribution in this lifetime, or have deep karmic fortune, they can satisfy their desires while alive; but after death, they cannot escape the interrogation of the King of Hell. This is the reason for the saying, 'There are many monks and Taoists at the gates of hell.' Of course, if one can pass these demon tests, one’s own spiritual attainment will rise, and one will reach a higher level. Therefore, demon tests can also reveal whether a practitioner possesses true right knowledge, right view, wisdom, compassion, and mind-capacity. So, whether one is a true practitioner, the demon crowds know as soon as they test them!"

The Importance of Purification

"As long as one is a seeker and explorer of Universal Principles, a practitioner, one has the opportunity to deal with the spiritual realms, because the truth covers the scope of both the body and the spirit. The spirit is unborn and undying. When the body and spirit coexist, the state of the body can be expressed in completely different ways depending on whether one is practicing or not. Therefore, what practice covers is not just the purification of the body; the purification of the soul is even more important! In the process of purifying both, infinite possibilities arise. The questions you explore—whether one can be the master, whether one’s three hun souls are in charge, or whether other beings are in charge—can all be included in this scope.

In folk and Taoist traditions, there is the loss of souls, soul-snatching, or the return of souls to the body; this is actually very common, it is just a matter of whether it has been exposed. We have heard Practitioner Su mention the 'three hun souls and seven po souls.' The hun and po can be said to be a state of spirit and soul existing in the body. If the hun and po are stable, such a person is in a stable state, not easily disturbed or influenced. If the hun and po have run away or are damaged, such a person can be seen to be in an unstable, restless, mentally abnormal state, unable to be the master. Most people who are in between are not easily discovered because they still have the ability to hide their true selves, until the loss of hun and po is severe and they no longer have the ability to hide, at which point it becomes easily visible.

Based on my observations at the temple these days, everyone is more familiar with the three hun souls, while the seven po souls are mentioned less often. The seven po souls can be said to be located in different parts of the body, overseeing the health and spiritual state of that location. Generally, in important parts of the body—the head, the two shoulders, the two hands, the two feet, or the internal organs—each po soul is watching and guarding, maintaining the stable state of the body and spirit in that area. If these po souls are not in the body, that area is easily invaded by other beings, leading to functional obstacles or spiritual abnormalities. The most important is the head; abnormal conditions will be clearly presented, making it easy for those around the person to notice. As for the po souls in other parts running away and not being in the body, it will lead to problems in that area, causing illness, and it is also easy for other beings to attach themselves."

From Yin to Yang: The Path to Awakening

"Yin energy and Yang energy are naturally in a state of ebb and flow or balance. For a practitioner, if Yin energy is heavy, it means the Yang fire in the body is weak, and there are many ghosts and demons in the body absorbing the Yang energy. After a period of conflict, if this person has vigilance or receives guidance from a clear-sighted teacher, they should quickly stop the reasons for ghosts and demons entering the body. These reasons are mostly various desires for the world and the body. They should increase their right knowledge, right mindfulness, and good thoughts, return deviant behaviors to the righteous path, and receive the protection of righteous energy, such as the Buddha-light or the positive energy of the Buddha-name, which can directly replenish the energy lost by the body. Some Dharma-protecting benevolent deities can also prevent ghosts and demons from entering the body, but if one’s own heart is not upright and one cannot thoroughly change one’s ways, one cannot prevent the intrusion of ghosts and demons, or they will only temporarily lie dormant in the body. Once the thoughts are not upright, that is when they can start making trouble. Therefore, one must thoroughly adjust and change from the heart to be able to let the body or constitution turn from Yin to Yang, returning to the normal life, space, and way that one should have.

If the Yang fire is heavy and the Yin energy is weak, that is a physical condition where ghosts and demons cannot easily enter, and even if they do, they dare not make trouble. A true practitioner can harmonize Yin and Yang, because Yin and Yang naturally exist in the earth and the natural world. Without destroying or harming, one can keep the body and spirit in a state of Yin-Yang peace and harmony. A superior practitioner can go a step further, without destruction or harm, to turn Yin into Yang. That is a kind of total inclusion and gentle transmission of energy, until the Yin can be completely transformed into total Yang. When the body’s energy is full and sufficient, all pollution can be removed one by one—purification! When all pollution is removed, presenting a body of pure Yang, possessing only positive energy, that is when the body’s natural instincts are revealed. That is a kind of total light, without any darkness; it is the highest spirituality, which is what every spirit originally possesses—what the Buddha’s teachings call the 'true self.' Whether it is Buddhism or Taoism, various methods of practice are all to reach the realm of total purity and non-staining, which is also what the Buddha’s teachings call 'realizing one’s true nature.' When the body is completely pure Yang and completely purified, that is the time of realizing one’s true nature!"

The Legend of Hsiang Kuang

"Whether one can meet a good teacher to teach one properly is also a reason that affects whether a student will realize their true nature. The extent to which this good teacher can teach the student affects the practice results the student can obtain. This is why the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre is currently standing out and making the Demon Realm vigilant. Some demon crowds might ask: 'To make the Demon Realm vigilant, you must give a reason that convinces us!' Then I will put it forward: 'Besides the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss, where in the world can one receive the direct teaching of Namo Amituofo? In the world, how many people have realized their true nature, and can directly receive the teaching of one who has realized their true nature?' Both are fully present at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre. There is an ancient saying: 'To see what a teacher is like, look at the students.' That is to say, what kind of teacher one has, one will teach what kind of students. This is the reason why a clear-sighted teacher is hard to meet.

Actually, I am a demon, yet I am staying here now—in this place that the Demon Realm regards as a Buddha-land. I truly have to be convinced, because the cultivation I have received here in just a few days has already made such a change. Based on my three thousand years of experience in the Demon Realm, I have controlled too many practitioners. There are indeed practitioners who can maintain their purity and goodness from beginning to end, without being stained, and who give unconditionally for the sake of beings! When the demon crowds manifest and interfere directly, and do so repeatedly without interruption, even invading the practitioner’s body, causing symptoms and suffering, no matter how the demon crowds treat them, they do not change their original intention of saving beings—such people are too few, too few!

The most special thing is that I have never seen a practitioner who can subdue so many demon crowds! Now, one has appeared—Practitioner Su. Actually, the Demon Realm understands very clearly that this is no longer something a human practitioner can do; it is the actions of a Buddha, a Buddha-heart, and a Buddha-practitioner. The reason I can sincerely say these frank words is because of what I saw and heard during the Thrice Yearning Ceremony."

Reflections on the Thrice Yearning Ceremony

"I have never seen a scene where the entire earth and sky were covered in golden light, nor have I ever seen Namo Amituofo, Avalokiteshvara Bodhisattva, and Mahasthamaprapta Bodhisattva. Although these legendary Three Saints of the West are mentioned very clearly in the sutras, for the Demon Realm, having never seen them and never experienced them personally, we have classified them as legends. But during the Thrice Yearning Ceremony, all of these happened at the same time! If Practitioner Su is one who has realized his true nature, how can he have actual actions that make us convinced? During the ceremony, we could see immeasurable and boundless Dharma Bodies emerging from the top of Practitioner Su’s head, leading a massive team called the 'salvation team' to go everywhere to perform deliverance. Inside were all the demon crowds subdued by Practitioner Su. This gave me a great shock, because everyone was wearing monastic robes, looking solemn, with shaved heads, looking more like monastics than monastics themselves. What kind of ability can make the demon crowds undergo such a great change?

'Appearance arises from the mind' is something that cannot deceive anyone. Only by remodeling and changing into a completely different heart can one possibly obtain such a great transformation. In this way, since one can see what a teacher is like by looking at the students, these students also include the demon crowds. If this is the inclusiveness, equality, and tolerance of the Buddha’s teachings, and now we have encountered it, then being subdued like this is truly something we have no words against. This fact exists at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre; this is truly a legendary place!

Now that it exists in the human world and is about to establish the headquarters of the Pure Land School, for us demon crowds, we can only sigh in admiration. As for whether people have the karmic fortune to receive this, it is predictable that among the immeasurable and boundless demon crowds, there may still be demon crowds coming out to interfere in the future, which is truly for those without karmic fortune to receive. But there is another fact that can be verified: Practitioner Su has walked this path, and even though he has received so much interference from the demon crowds, he has been able to overcome it. Therefore, it can also be said that even if there are demon crowds coming out to interfere with people getting close to the Pure Land School headquarters, it is believable that under the presiding presence of Namo Amituofo and Practitioner Su, this problem can be eliminated. Even if it exists, as Practitioner Su said, 'Save as many as you can,' it is worthy of Namo Amituofo residing at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre.

Practitioner Su’s journey to the human world has left behind such a Pure Land Dharma lineage to propagate the Dharma and pass it on to future generations. Moreover, when Practitioner Su returns to the Western Land of Ultimate Bliss, he will bring with him the mighty salvation team of subdued demon crowds and us demon crowds and other beings who are still in the Dharma-Nature Land. It can be considered a full return! This lifetime was not spent in vain in the human world."

Mo Wenhao (Shi Yuanzhuan)

The Buddha gave Mo Wenhao the Dharma name "Shi Yuanzhuan."