The Mystery of the Main Spirit

This is a record of an interview with the spirit of Venerable Master Chin Kung, who now resides in the Western Dharma-Nature Land of the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre in Australia. This interview, conducted by the chief writer, Venerable HaiZe, on November 10, 2022, explores the profound nature of the 'Main Spirit' and the spiritual mechanics of the human body as observed from the perspective of the Western Dharma-Nature Land.

Venerable Master Chin Kung speaks:

"Namo Amituofo. Today, Namo Amituofo has given me a topic to discuss: 'Where is the Main Spirit?' If I were still alive in the human world, I would have found this question quite puzzling. 'Where is the Main Spirit?' I would have thought, 'Isn't the Main Spirit right here within our bodies? Why would anyone ask such a thing?' It is only now, existing in a state without a physical body, that I have come to realise that the nature of the spirit is a subject of immense depth. The location and state of the Main Spirit differ vastly depending on whether one possesses a physical body or not.

The Anatomy of the Spirit

Everyone knows that after the end of one's lifespan, the spirit leaves the body—this is what we call the intermediate state. Depending on the strength of one's karma, the spirit goes to various destinations. This is the state of a spirit without a body. But where is the Main Spirit when one is still alive? Namo Amituofo is truly profound. If not for the experiences, observations, and learning I have undergone here in the Western Dharma-Nature Land over these past three months, I would never have been able to explain this clearly. You are all accustomed to relying on the Tripitaka—the Sutras, Vinaya, and Shastras—or the works of the ancestral masters as your basis for belief. What I am about to share is not merely from those texts, but a synthesis of my shallow understanding while I was alive, combined with the reality I have witnessed here over these past three months. Most of what I share now comes from what I have seen in this realm.

When the body, mind, and spirit are all sound, one is a complete human being. The body is formed by the combination of the four great elements: earth, water, fire, and wind. Once the spirit enters the body, it brings the body to life. The mind exists simultaneously with the spirit; where there is spirit, there is mind. The mind is the commander-in-chief. The spirit and the body act according to the instructions of the mind. The mind requires either the spirit or the body to function, and the condition of the spirit and body in turn influences the mind. This is the intricate relationship between the three.

The Hidden World of Spirits

You have studied the physical body thoroughly, especially in medicine, because to treat illness, one must identify the cause to prescribe the right medicine. But what about the mind? Buddha's teachings are the 'Dharma of the Mind.' Practitioners who have a deep understanding of the mind and consciousness know that all dharmas are mind-only. One must put in the work at the level of the mind to elevate the spirit, to use the false to cultivate the true, and to find one's way back to the true self. If you have listened to my lectures, you have a basic concept of this mind. But when it comes to the 'spirit,' many find it unfamiliar, even though it is mentioned in the sutras and during Dharma talks. The world of spirits occupies a very important part of the Buddha's teachings. As described in the Avatamsaka Sutra, there are beings in various realms and different spaces; these are all worlds of spirits. We know that the spirit is neither born nor destroyed. When we have a body, the Main Spirit and the mind that drive the body's life and activity reside within it. Furthermore, this body does not only contain the Main Spirit and the mind; spirits connected to the body and the Main Spirit—including karmic creditors and sentient beings from past lives—can also enter and reside within the body. Whether they exert influence depends on one's fate and karma. Namo Amituofo has truly brought to light a problem that everyone is unable to see.

The Three Souls and Seven Po Souls

I have learned here that the spirit consists of three hun souls and seven po souls. In the Dharma-Nature Land, I can see and hear the teachings of Namo Amituofo or Teacher Xia Lianju during the Thrice Yearning Ceremonies, where they also mention these three hun souls and seven po souls. If we look at this through the lens of the Buddha's teachings as we know them, the Western Pure Land is a world of spirits, and Namo Amituofo is the Universal Buddha, the highest form of spirit. Furthermore, Teacher Xia Lianju also exists in the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre in a spiritual state, his spirit functioning to care for and encourage everyone as our teacher. When I explain it this way, it is easier for you to understand the spirit, though the mind and the spirit seem to be different.

In the 'Complete Collection of the Thrice Yearning Ceremony' by Chan Master Zhongfeng, he tells us there are three types of minds: the physical heart, the discriminating mind, and the spirit-knowing mind. The physical heart is the organ in the body. As for the discriminating mind and the spirit-knowing mind, you cannot touch or see them, but they can be manifested through the body's actions, our good or evil deeds, our thoughts, or seen by those who have realised their true nature. These are the manifestations of the body, mind, and spirit working together.

The Cycle of Rebirth

We say that reincarnation and the cycle of the six realms of existence are driven by this spirit, which enters the womb, with the mind following the spirit. If you go to the hells in the next life, it is the spirit that goes to receive the retribution. If you go to the animal realm, it is also the spirit that enters the animal's body, though in that state, the spirit and mind are dim and confused, unable to control the body, and can only live according to the animal's instincts. The ghost realm, the heavenly realm, and the asura realm are also states of the spirit. The fetal cells grow under the nourishment of the parents and have the ability to become a body. Once the Main Spirit enters the womb, it stays in that body until the end of the lifespan or the separation of the four elements.

The spirit is an invisible state of awareness. Those with 'open eyes' can see it, but the physical eye cannot. The fetal body can be seen through medical instruments, and after birth, we see the infant, but we cannot see the spirit, even though we know it exists within that body. Generally speaking, as far as I know, the Main Spirit can be divided into the 'spirit' and 'spiritual nature.' Spiritual nature is the state of the spirit; for example, Buddhas and Bodhisattvas possess a high spiritual nature, while the spirit in the animal realm is more dim and confused. It is the spirit that goes to be reincarnated. We do not say the 'spiritual nature' goes to be reincarnated, nor do we say the 'mind' goes to be reincarnated; we say the 'spirit' goes to be reincarnated, which shows that everyone has a basic understanding of the spirit.

The Displacement of the Main Spirit

In truth, when the Buddha's teachings speak of the mind, they cannot be separated from the spirit. Beings in the six realms are all spirits. The spirit is neither born nor destroyed, and all memories are stored within it. Since the spirit contains the mind, the mind and spirit are inseparable. I have learned here that if the three hun souls and seven po souls are all within the body, the spirit is in a complete state. If they are not, the spirit appears dim, unable to concentrate, and the consciousness is unclear. The three hun souls refer to the Main Soul, the Body Soul, and the Consciousness Soul. Additionally, there are seven po souls that govern the body's framework, including the internal organs.

The Main Spirit is composed of these three hun souls and seven po souls. It is a complete entity that medical science cannot detect. The mind drives the Main Soul, Body Soul, and Consciousness Soul to function, creating the spiritual state of these souls. The Main Soul is where the mind resides; if it is in the body, it means the person is alive. After the spirit enters the mother's womb, all the past experiences and memories of that spirit—everything in the Alaya consciousness—are stored in this Main Soul. It is extremely important. Its existence signifies the existence of the mind, so the Main Soul cannot leave the body. If it leaves, it becomes the intermediate state after death. Generally, the Main Soul only leaves the body when the four elements separate at the time of death, signifying the end of the lifespan.

The Reality of Spiritual Attachment

As far as I know, the Main Soul is located in the chest. I am not sure if this view is entirely correct, but the Main Soul is in a spiritual state. Even if the Body Soul and Consciousness Soul are not in the body, the Main Soul must remain. The Body Soul governs the body, acting almost like a commander, guarding the body and allowing it to function normally. The Consciousness Soul is what we call the 'consciousness' part; it is very vast. Whether a person is clever, quick-witted, or slow to react is related to the Consciousness Soul. If the Consciousness Soul is not in the body, one is prone to mental issues, difficulty concentrating, forgetfulness, or a lack of focus. If the Body Soul is not in the body, the body ages or develops diseases.

I have learned through my own experience that if there are too many spiritual attachments—if karmic creditors and karma manifest—it is easy to attract these beings. Especially for those who think too much, or whose thoughts are biased or evil, demon crowds can enter the body. These densely packed beings, if they are karmic creditors, come to collect debts or seek revenge, causing harm. When they gather in the head, reactions become slow, potentially leading to dementia. I have seen people whose heads are filled with these beings; their speech, actions, and perspectives are completely different from before, as the karmic creditors are in control. Medical science can identify physical problems and use medication to control them, but the root cause is the presence of these beings in your head. How can one live a normal life under such conditions?

The Burden of Karmic Creditors

If there are beings in the eyes, your vision will decline and age. Medical check-ups or drugs only provide temporary relief; the fundamental problem is the presence of these beings. They are spirits without bodies; when they enter your body, they interfere with and affect it. This is the operation of karma—the collection of debts and the seeking of revenge. If these beings gather in the heart, the heart is prone to problems. Many current cardiovascular diseases are closely related to karma and karmic creditors. If they gather in the legs, the legs become stiff and immobile. I experienced this myself—my legs were hard as stone. Massage, medication, and heat therapy only helped temporarily. Why? Because the beings were still inside. Even if you drive them away, they can return. This is why my legs were constantly stiff; they were packed with these beings.

I was also afraid of the cold because many of the beings on my body came from the ghost realm; they were 'yin' in nature and carried heavy cold energy. I was essentially suffering on behalf of these beings. I now see that at that time, there were many beings on my body from different places. Every place I went, beings followed me. The physical eyes of people could not see them, but they were factually by my side or inside my body. The Dragon and Heaven Dharma Protectors saw this and helped me, but those with karmic affinity with you inevitably enter your body. This is why I was afraid of the cold—it was related to the beings within me, mostly from the ghost realm, heavenly realm, asura realm, and hell realm.

The Struggle for Control

Demon crowds are also spirits, though the demon realm and the ghost realm are different spaces. If you have many beings on your body, your own Main Spirit finds it difficult to be in control. If most of these beings are resentful, ill-intentioned, and here to collect debts, how can your body live in this world? When they are in control, it means karma is in control. Your spiritual nature is suppressed, and your Main Spirit is locked away by these beings. It is hard for you to grasp this, but imagine you are the owner of this body, yet because you owed others too much in past lives, they have come to collect. This debt is not financial; it is a debt of past grievances and hatred. They use your body as a tool for debt collection. They will not let you be in control. In many cases, you cannot resist and must let them do as they please, and this includes beings from the demon realm. The Main Soul cannot leave the body—this is a natural law. Without the Main Soul, the body cannot function, just as it enters a state of death when the soul leaves after the separation of the four elements. Thus, these creditors lock your Main Soul away, preventing you from being in control. Where is your Main Soul then?

As far as I know, it is locked in the place where your karma with them is the heaviest. For example, if you are heavily burdened by emotional attachments, your Main Soul might be locked in your chest or lower body. If the grievances are caused by evil thoughts or harmful actions, your Main Soul might be locked in your eyes. If you used schemes to harm others, it might be locked in your head. These are examples I have learned during my time here. At the same time, the Body Soul and Consciousness Soul might be driven out of the body, leaving the three souls incomplete. These souls wander outside, and I have seen this happen.

The Path to True Cultivation

These wandering souls are quite pitiful. They cannot enter the body, and the body, managed by karmic creditors instead of the Body Soul, naturally falls ill. Which organs are affected depends on your relationship with the creditors. If the Consciousness Soul is not in the body, your attention is not easily focused, and you become dull—a common condition for the elderly. In their sixty, seventy, or eighty years of life, they have experienced so much and had so many thoughts! In such circumstances, the body is replaced by karmic creditors.

I was one of them. Do not be shocked. When I was in my seventies, my Main Soul began to be locked away by the beings on my body, trapped in my chest and heart. Thanks to Practitioner Su, who saved me several times and invited ancestral masters to protect my body, I was rescued. But after a while, there were too many beings, and I was outnumbered; my Main Soul was locked away again. At that time, it was not my Main Soul in control, but my karmic creditors, who were very familiar with me, and even demon crowds. I mentioned this in previous interviews. My karmic creditors used my body to act and speak. No one knew my Main Soul was locked away. This was a secret that had not been revealed until now. You must believe that what I say is true.

When Practitioner Su saved my Main Soul, he also saved my wandering Body Soul and Consciousness Soul. He placed them in the Western Dharma-Nature Land, where I now reside. After being settled there for a period, allowing them to calm down and gain energy, Practitioner Su sent them back into my body. At that point, the three souls were reunited, and the Main Soul had the strength to face these karmic creditors and the other beings in my body. However, as I mentioned, the mind leads the spirit and the body. If your mind becomes biased or selfish, the karmic creditors and demon crowds can exert force again, driving the Consciousness Soul and Body Soul out and locking the Main Soul away once more. My Main Soul was saved by Practitioner Su several times over ten years, only to be locked away again. It was not until about six months to a year before I passed away at ninety-six that Practitioner Su treated me kindly, saved my Main Soul, and brought my two other souls back into my body, reuniting the three. He also invited many ancestral masters from the Western Pure Land to protect my spirit, including many demon beings subdued by Practitioner Su—those called 'Universe-External Bodhisattvas,' 'Milky Way Bodhisattvas,' and 'New Buddha-Children.' These beings, once demons, turned towards goodness after entering the Western Dharma-Nature Land and became Dharma protectors, guarding my spirit from interference and harm.

The Importance of Resolving Karma

It was during those days that my spirit knew Namo Amituofo was at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre. Every day, Namo Amituofo would give me teachings, which were incredibly precious. But my spirit was stubborn and selfish, and I did not make this public to tell everyone. Moreover, my spirit could control the body at that time because of the protection of so many ancestral masters, Universe-External Bodhisattvas, Milky Way Bodhisattvas, and New Buddha-Children. My Main Spirit could be in control, yet I did not take practical action to find Namo Amituofo. This is what I have mentioned in previous interviews. If I had been able to tell the Pure Land societies and academies that Namo Amituofo was indeed at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre, and if they had believed it, I would not have to work so hard now to rectify this, with such minimal effect and no response.

Today, some disciples, Dharma protectors, or believers might ask, 'How could such a thing happen?' In fact, even when I was alive, I explained the body, mind, and spirit—especially the spiritual part—according to the interpretations in the sutras. I did not use the perspective of the three hun souls and seven po souls to reflect on myself; I did not understand, nor did I know. It is only now, reviewing my life and what I have seen here, that I can explain all of this.

In this Western Dharma-Nature Land, I watch Practitioner Su 'invite spirits' every day. Some are demon crowds that harass him, which he invites out and sends to the Dharma-Nature Land; others are karmic creditors on the bodies of the fourfold assembly, causing them physical pain or mental instability, which he also invites out. In this process, I see the Venerable write memorial tablets, and I see Namo Amituofo's teachings, communicating with these beings and recording their words, as well as the tablets for Chao Du. These contents are read out by Practitioner Su, and with the sounding of the qing, the beings are invited into the Western Dharma-Nature Land.

Although you cannot see the state of these beings, after they are invited out, your spirit improves, physical symptoms improve, pain stops, and you feel better. I see these spirits because I am also a spirit. Because I see them, I can speak of these things. If I had not seen them, my words would not be real or believable. This is why I have repeatedly urged everyone to come here to invite spirits and resolve conflicts, to invite karmic creditors out of your body and send them to the Dharma-Nature Land, so they do not manifest at the moment of your death to interfere with you, preventing you from chanting Namo Amituofo and being reborn in the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss.

The Final Challenge

This is a very important matter. Many people who chant the Buddha-name very well do not go to the Western Pure Land after death; the problem lies right here. In daily life, they chant well, and the karmic creditors remain still, living in peace with them without causing trouble. Of course, some practitioners lose their faith because of illness caused by karma. But what is hardest to guard against is when there are no signs in daily life, but at the moment of rebirth, karmic creditors manifest and obstruct your spirit. They might manifest as the relatives you miss most or anything that can catch your attention. At that moment, will your Buddha-name still be there? It is very likely to be broken. At this time, the Buddha-name must not be broken. Once it is broken, Namo Amituofo cannot manifest, and naturally, you cannot see the Buddha and cannot go to the West.

This is a very serious matter. This is the fact I have seen in the Western Dharma-Nature Land, and it is why I repeatedly urge everyone to return to invite spirits, resolve conflicts, and perform Chao Du for karmic creditors. You may know a little about this, but you do not know how important it is. Some Pure Land Dharma protectors, lay practitioners, and volunteers write memorial tablets for their karmic creditors during the Thrice Yearning Ceremonies, but that is just your intention. You hope they can leave suffering and be reborn in the West, and that you can dissolve your own karmic obstacles. Firstly, the beings may not be willing to leave. Secondly, does the Dharma assembly have the ability to deliver these beings to the West?

You must know that changing your personality is the main reason to truly resolve conflicts with beings and prevent karma from manifesting. Even if they are delivered, if your personality remains the same, we have too many karmic creditors, and others will manifest, remaining in your body. Some karmic creditors with Dharma affinity might be delivered, but as long as your personality remains, your karma remains, birth, aging, sickness, and death remain, and karmic creditors remain. Rebirth in the West at the time of death is a huge challenge and a huge obstacle!

In the practice at Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre, changing one's personality is very important, and inviting spirits and Chao Du are also very important. For Practitioner Su, bringing back the three hun souls and seven po souls is not difficult. But if your personality does not change after they are brought back, the condition of the karmic creditors in your body remains the same; the Body Soul and Consciousness Soul will be kicked out again, the Main Soul will be locked away, and you will return to your previous state. How can one realise one's true nature in such a situation? I have seen this in the Western Dharma-Nature Land and know that this state cannot lead to the realisation of one's true nature. Only when the three hun souls and seven po souls are complete can your wisdom function, and your awareness can become clear. This is a very realistic and logical fact.

Therefore, maintaining the integrity of the souls is very important for a practitioner. I have said before that generally, having old age and sickness means there is still karma. If one is an awakened being, their spirit can be autonomous and not bound by reincarnation; their illness or physical problems are 'suffering on behalf of sentient beings,' not their own karma, so once the beings are invited out, the suffering can be relieved. Because awakened beings are cool, at ease, and possess meditative concentration—deep concentration—beings and external environments cannot move them, so there is no suffering. That concentration is constant, deep, and is a state of emptiness and clarity. This is the true self that practitioners must find.

When I was alive, I gave many explanations for these consciousnesses, including the six roots and six consciousnesses—eye, ear, nose, tongue, body, and consciousness—plus the seventh consciousness, the Manas consciousness, and the eighth, the Alaya consciousness. These eight consciousnesses are all karma. If one wants to realise their true nature, one must transform karma, transform consciousness into wisdom, to be able to realise it. Where do these consciousnesses exist? They exist on the Main Soul, on the Main Spirit. So once consciousness is transformed into wisdom, the Main Spirit also transforms; it is an awakened spirit. In fact, calling it an 'awakened spirit' is a crude way of putting it, because upon realising one's true nature and attaining Buddhahood, one has a Dharma Body, and this Dharma Body is integrated with the universe and the void. This state is no longer a spiritual state. It is a boundless state. The spirit is still a state before awakening, but there is no other way to explain it. This is the Buddha's teaching; you cannot say it, you cannot describe it, you can only intuitively understand it, but it cannot be conveyed in words.

The above is my introduction to 'Where is the Main Spirit?' It is my own personal experience, very real, because I can see it, and I hope it serves as a reference for everyone. For those who want to realise their true nature and vow to be reborn in the Western Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss, maintaining the integrity of the three hun souls and seven po souls, changing your personality, resolving conflicts, inviting spirits, and performing Chao Du are all very important. I hope everyone will pay attention. Even if you cannot make a breakthrough in your practice now and have physical illness, the problem lies right here. It can be solved; at the very least, you must make the effort.

Namo Amituofo is at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre. Come here, and Namo Amituofo can help you realise your true nature and be reborn in the West.

Alright, I will stop here for today. Namo Amituofo.

Shi Chin Kung, with palms joined.

At the Western Dharma-Nature Land of the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre, Australia."