The Sixteen-Trillion-Year Journey of a Primordial Demon

This is a record of an interview with Mo Zhaoyun, a primordial demon who sought Chao Du at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre in Australia. He now resides in the Western Dharma-Nature Land. This account reflects upon his existence spanning approximately sixteen trillion years. Recorded by the chief writer, Venerable HaiZe, on April 20, 2025.

Mo Zhaoyun speaks:

"Namo Amituofo. I am Mo Zhaoyun, a primordial demon from the Dharma Realm. I understand that you are all in a diligent practice group, so I will keep my story brief. Sixteen trillion years—by Earth's reckoning, that is an incredibly long time. In the Dharma Realm, I once thought I was ancient, but today in the Western Dharma-Nature Land, I heard of an old demon who has existed for thirty-four trillion years. To think that he has spent nearly double my lifetime in the Dharma Realm is truly inconceivable. The power of Practitioner Su’s Chao Du is so profound that it can reach into the hidden spaces where even a thirty-four-trillion-year-old demon resides! This is certainly not something an ordinary practitioner could achieve; only a Buddha has such capability. I believe the demon crowds here in the Western Dharma-Nature Land, having seen and heard what I have, would agree with me."

A Tragic Origin: The Life of a Slave

"I originated on a planet in the Dharma Realm that was on the verge of destruction. Later, demon crowds took control. While the planet was not destroyed, it entered a dark age. We, the inhabitants, had no choice but to become slaves. Our fates were dictated by our rulers, and we lived lives of utter misery and suffering. Originally, our spirits possessed a modicum of Goodness, but after being enslaved, we were subjected to constant humiliation, disrespect, and bullying. We had no sense of self. We worked incessantly, with only the briefest moments to close our eyes and rest. Every one of us dragged our exhausted bodies through endless, back-breaking labour.

Although spirits do not have physical bodies, they can perform tasks within the spirit realms. To build their powerful kingdoms, the demon crowds forced us slaves to construct defensive fortifications, living lives that were unrecognisable as human—though, in truth, we were not human. It was a wretched existence. Each of us harboured pain and hatred, but we could not speak of it, nor did we have the time to think. Even when our souls were nearly extinguished, we were forced to continue working, accelerating our own atrophy until our final ounce of strength was spent. We would collapse, only to be absorbed into the planet's soil. Many spirits spent their final moments this way. They did not truly die, but entered a period of dormancy, forgetting their pasts, only to awaken eventually as a new life."

The Birth of a Demon

"I was one such slave. I withered away and spent an immense amount of time beneath the ground, until a dark force was injected back into my spirit. From that moment, I was a new life, but I was a demon. From childhood, I played the role of a demon; I knew of no other beings, nor of any world beyond that planet.

Therefore, my sixteen trillion years should be counted from that rebirth. Everything I did on that planet was the work of a demon. My personality evolved from nothingness at birth to the temperament of a Demon King, and finally, an old demon. Before I chose to go into seclusion, I spent nearly ten trillion years in that state. If I calculate correctly, I spent about six trillion years in deep meditative concentration. That is a vast amount of time, but for a demon in deep meditation, the concepts of 'long' or 'short' simply do not exist.

During that time, I established my own demon kingdom, but after I chose to enter meditation, my kingdom was seized by other demon crowds. Some of them went on to build their own kingdoms. None of this affected me. In the Demon Realm, I, Mo Zhaoyun, had a certain reputation. Many who heard my name felt a sense of familiarity, for my calmness was laced with cold-bloodedness. This cold-bloodedness meant that I would stop at nothing to achieve what was advantageous to me—a terrifying personality, to be sure. But having grown up in such an environment, how could I have known what Goodness, compassion, or Wisdom were? Even if I knew of Wisdom, I would have considered my own actions to be wise; that is the nature of arrogance. My personality was constantly triggered in this way; otherwise, I would have been like those withered spirits buried underground. There are many spirit realm beings beneath the earth, and we were merely a part of them."

The Unbeaten Demon King

"How did I spend my days before seclusion? I adopted an attitude of 'avoiding unnecessary trouble.' I did not interfere with others, and I expected the same in return. If one were to interfere, it would likely be to one's own detriment.

I was indeed an arrogant, self-important demon king, but I was very lucky; I often emerged victorious in battle. Thus, some called me the 'Unbeaten Demon King,' a title I wore with pride. Now, however, I realise the immense karmic price I paid, though it is too late to change that. I have harmed too many spirits. Any planet we passed through was usually drained of its energy, leaving many lives to wither underground. That was our 'victory.' Consequently, I made many enemies. After I chose to go into seclusion, no junior in my demon group possessed my boldness or power, so they were absorbed by other demon kings. That is simply the way of things. Once a demon chooses to enter meditation, they have no right to interfere with the kingdoms they once built.

My method of seclusion matched my personality: if I am not going to do something, I won't; if I am, I do it with a bang. I chose to hide in a stone near the ground, within the very city walls I had once been forced to build as a slave. Stones are much like the personality of a demon—a perfect place for seclusion. For six trillion years, that stone was never touched. It was a vast, empty space. Originally, there was greenery outside, but as time passed, the green withered away. From then on, no green life force ever appeared again. Green represents life, like leaves. The demons of that time had stripped away the green. It wasn't just about removing the colour; it was about scrubbing it away until it was invisible, though the truth remained the truth.

Naturally, the space I occupied was dark, which was quite natural to me. One day, the Buddha-light brought by Namo Amituofo and Practitioner Su penetrated deep underground, and in a very short time, I was brought into the Western Dharma-Nature Land."

The Complexity of the Human Body

"People's hearts are truly volatile. We in the Western Dharma-Nature Land can clearly feel your fluctuations, because your hearts constantly follow external conditions. To have no fluctuations is like our meditative concentration—no matter how the body moves, the heart remains unmoved. But if external conditions trigger one's personality, it is disastrous. Humans are the same; honestly, in a state with a physical body, the personality is even more complex! If one is like Practitioner Su, who possesses the Buddha-Recitation Samadhi, the heart remains in a state of deep peace and Wisdom. It is truly tranquil, with no external conditions that can stir it. That is the mark of one with true meditative concentration. This is the difference between a Buddha and a demon.

Now, we look at the human body, and from the crown of the head to the soles of the feet, there is not a single place without a personality. Think about how many cells you have, how many beings reside within you, and each one has its own personality. Every cell has the eight consciousnesses and fifty-one mental factors; this is something I have learned recently.

Now I understand, and I wish to share this with everyone. After all, I am a trillion-year-old demon with the experience of a demon, now fused with the Buddha’s teachings I have absorbed. It has given me a deeper understanding of the Universal Principle, the Truth, and the Right Way. I take this opportunity to share this with you all. If there is any bias, I invite Namo Amituofo or Practitioner Su to guide and correct me. However, I believe my judgment is quite accurate.

You know that the cells in your body are countless. Each cell has its own eight consciousnesses and fifty-one mental factors, meaning each cell has its own story. The beings within your body are even more complex. The beings within the eight consciousnesses and fifty-one mental factors of your 'Main Spirit' may all manifest in the body formed by the combination of karmic conditions in this lifetime.

Let me see how many personalities your body has; it depends on which part of your personality is triggered by the karmic conditions of this life.

The Buddha’s teachings are not easy, yet they are simple: just have no personality! But personalities are so subtle, and there are many that you cannot even grasp yourself. All of these must be transformed into 'nothingness.'

Fortunately, the compassionate Namo Amituofo has given everyone the Buddha-name 'Namo Amituofo.' This Buddha-name is not just an ordinary name. Ordinary names are useless; they are names of karma, and chanting them only adds karma upon karma. Just as you often think of certain people, family members, or acquaintances, chanting those names only makes your karma more turbid and unclear. But chanting 'Namo Amituofo' is different, because within the name of Namo Amituofo, all the merit and power of all Buddhas are contained.

His vow is powerful, and the strength of his firm vow is also within this name. It is truly potent! It is no wonder that no old demon can withstand the radiance of the Twelve Lights. So, everyone, listen: since the light of Namo Amituofo has shone into the space where we were in meditation, none of us have any excuses or arguments left.

Many old demons of my age remember Namo Amituofo, though it is a memory from the distant past. Once awakened, these memories return one by one. Because during our meditation, we did not allow anything to enter our Alaya consciousness.

I mentioned that the human body has many personalities. To add to that, by comparison, the personalities of demons or spirits are much simpler; it is just a matter of strength versus weakness. What I mean by 'simple' is that the 'I like' or 'I want' is extremely intense.

For example, I was an arrogant demon king. My arrogance was strong, and consequently, my attachment to gain and loss was heavy. I could not tolerate failure; I only allowed success. I would put in more effort than others to achieve it. Therefore, once I failed, the pain was like falling from a high mountain to the bottom of a valley. To avoid such pain, I had to maintain my victory, which required paying a tremendous price.

From what I observe, people today are the same; it is all personality. If one had no personality—like a Buddha, following conditions and being content with whatever happens—how wonderful that would be! How could the heart be stirred? If the heart is not stirred, and one encounters external conditions, one can transform the environment rather than being transformed by it. That is true freedom and ease; it is wonderful!

But I was different. Because I had a personality, I had to be stronger than others to show my uniqueness. Therefore, I spent more time and energy strengthening my expertise. My expertise was the ability to pinpoint a problem, see exactly where the opponent's weakness lay, and attack that part to win.

Just as some planets store energy in a specific location, when attacking such a planet, one looks for the defenses around that storage area, breaks them down one by one, and in one stroke, you gain all the energy. You don't need to attack the small areas; you naturally occupy the planet.

Similarly, attacking a human body is even simpler. Although there are many beings with different personalities inside, there is definitely one that is in charge. Even if several spirits are in charge, this is what you call 'multiple personality disorder,' because they all compete to appear. How could the personality be unified? How could the body, mind, and spirit be harmonious? They cannot; it must be chaotic. This is what multiple personality disorder is. When the strongest personality appears, it is usually the one that is aggressive, irritable, and dominant. Only such a personality can make other spirits submit or stay away, allowing it to take charge. Such a person is certainly not led by their Main Spirit. If we want to attack such a person, we target that dominant, particularly strong Main Spirit. When it is active, we crush it—our personality is stronger than theirs. The advantage of a demon lies here. No matter how strong the spirit beings are, they will not be stronger than us—that is, for a demon with true 'attainment.' Of course, small demons or 'demon children and grandchildren' might not dare to approach such a personality, so only a demon king or an old demon could control it.

How could such an evil spirit live for sixteen trillion years without being consumed by the laws of karma and cause and effect? Those six trillion years in deep meditation were spent without any movement or fluctuation of mental notes, which is how I preserved the life of this spirit.

Why was I not consumed by the laws of karma and cause and effect ten trillion years ago? I have explored this, and I have figured it out: because within the laws of karma, the reason I had such intense arrogance and attachment to gain and loss was that I was taught in such an environment from birth. I received the education of the Demon Realm. So, for those ten trillion years, I was almost never separated from the Demon Realm. It is truly a sad and pitiable state. Perhaps the laws of karma saw this and gave me a chance at rebirth, allowing a bit of Goodness to appear when I encountered a kind environment. There is a saying in China: 'Heaven has the virtue of cherishing life.' This sentence is also a Universal Principle, the Truth, and the Right Way. Perhaps in my past lives, I performed great deeds of blessing, and I was sheltered by that blessing. The blessings were not exhausted, so I had this chance not to be consumed by the laws of karma. Perhaps that is it.

Now, I am allowed to reflect on the mistakes I made in the past here in the Western Dharma-Nature Land. Practitioner Su’s words, 'No past, no future, only the present; chant one Buddha-name to the end,' are truly beneficial for many demon crowds in the Dharma-Nature Land, especially for old demons.

If these words came from an ordinary person, we might not value them so much, because the hearts of ordinary people are volatile and impermanent. How could what they say be accurate? There are bound to be variables, and it is rare for them to say something sensible. But since these words come from Practitioner Su—with his experience in this lifetime, his seeing his true nature, and his hearing and seeing the deliverance of demon crowds—and most importantly, his deep foundation of Goodness from past lives, we old demons can believe that what he says is credible.

Furthermore, Namo Amituofo abides at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre in Goombungee, Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia, because of the deeds of Practitioner Su, which moved Namo Amituofo to come and abide here. We have even more reason to believe that we can follow what Practitioner Su says, because Namo Amituofo approves! What reason do we have not to approve?

However, many of the fourfold assembly of disciples are quite bold; they can disagree, ignore Practitioner Su’s words, and even talk back. We watch this with fear and trembling! You are truly bold! Perhaps I am being too blunt, but it is the truth. There are a few who really do this, letting his words go in one ear and out the other. We, however, treat them as treasures. This one sentence can give you infinite benefit; it can transform a demon into a Buddha!

'No past, no future, only the present; chant one Buddha-name to the end.' Understanding this sentence is enough. Moreover, Practitioner Su often reminds you, yet it seems few of you are truly doing it. On the contrary, we old demons in the Dharma-Nature Land are holding onto the Buddha-name ever tighter. Is it because we fear death? That is one way to put it. Is it to repent and save ourselves? That is also true. Is it to purify this filthy soul? That is also true. Call it what you will; in short, just hold onto the Buddha-name tightly.

Returning to myself, the reason I came to the Western Dharma-Nature Land—and I believe this is the reason many old demons come—is that the Buddha-light of Namo Amituofo and the countless manifestations of Practitioner Su penetrated the space where I was in meditation. After being illuminated by the bright light, I awakened. This energy is not ordinary sunlight, moonlight, or any other energy; this light is the energy of Buddha-light, which is very special. The human body has too many beings blocking it and many negative thoughts, so often the Buddha-light can only shine on the surface of the skin.

In fact, the power of Buddha-light can penetrate deep into the interior of the body. It depends on whether you can receive the benefit, and whether your body is purified enough to receive it. Why do I say this? Because our spirit was in the outer wall, and this wall was made of stacked stones. I was in deep meditation inside one of those stones. The Buddha-light shone even on the stone closest to the ground, and since I was inside, I was awakened by the light.

This was not the residual light of the Buddha-light sweeping past, but a direct illumination. The energy was very strong. In a very short time, I was awakened, and after I opened my eyes, I was taken away by the Buddha-light in an instant. There was no room for consideration. I believe that when I had a thought, the speed of the thought was quite fast, but this light was faster.

When I regained my senses, I was already on a lotus seat in the Western Dharma-Nature Land. Being illuminated by the Buddha-light from the deep, dark space and arriving in the light-filled Western Dharma-Nature Land in such a short time—this is a huge transformation! Just like that, my spiritual life underwent a major turning point. My spirit, which was originally pitch-black and shiny, gradually became lighter under the illumination of the Buddha-light—from light black to light grey, and now to a pale grey.

I believe that before long, I will become a white, clean, and transparent soul. I see such demon crowds existing here, so they must have been here for some time. I am happy to see their changes, because this means that one day, I too will undergo the same change.

In the past, such days had actually flashed through my mind, but this was completely different from what demons think, so it was not a place to stay for long. Although such dreams flashed through my mind, I instantly dismissed them. If such dreams had persisted without being dismissed, my power would have been weakened, and how could I have been strong enough to live for ten trillion years? That is not simple either.

I have seen old demons of thirty-six trillion years appear. It is truly inconceivable that I have the opportunity to be in the same space as such highly accomplished old demons in the Western Dharma-Nature Land. However, the spaces occupied by such old demons in the Dharma-Nature Land are different from ours, because the spaces in the Dharma-Nature Land are also layer upon layer, endless. The demons that enter are classified into the spaces they should be in. This is very scientific, technological, and rational. It is a natural classification; there is no need for any evaluation, answering questions, or assessment before being assigned. Their spirit simply knows which part to go to.

I will mention one more point: demon crowds whose spirits are black and heavy occupy the space in the Western Dharma-Nature Land meant for such beings. The Buddha is in the Western Dharma-Nature Land, shining light on us 24/7. Similarly, for demons who have arrived in the Western Dharma-Nature Land, if they are younger—say, ten trillion years, or a few hundred million, or nine hundred billion years—these are much younger than us. If they are in a space that is volatile and unstable, and their meditative concentration is weak, they might be pulled away.

If a practitioner’s meditative concentration is sufficient and they are firm, they might be able to transform and absorb other demons, stopping them from doing evil. This is one of the reasons Practitioner Su can deliver so many demons. This is done under the Buddha’s blessings. The demon crowds in the Western Dharma-Nature Land are also only able to undergo such great changes under the Buddha’s blessings.

So, what can I say to the juniors? Those juniors who hear what I have said will know that they have such great flexibility and the opportunity to transform into a Buddha. Why not seize this opportunity?

In sixteen trillion years, I have encountered such an opportunity once. Do you have the chance to live for sixteen trillion years? That is not necessary. You are young and have encountered Namo Amituofo and Practitioner Su. Why not surrender? What else do you want to do? Continue being a demon? Continue waiting until you are old enough, find a place to settle down, and live in darkness? Many old demons have never appeared again because their energy was exhausted, and the surrounding environment could not sustain them. In the beginning, the spirit could remain, but it withered away and went underground. Do you want to live such a life?

So, my advice to you is: if you are using 'magic,' stop immediately! The target of your magic is the Greatly Compassionate Namo Amituofo, who can stop you and wipe out the negative causes you have created. The laws of karma do not do such things; the records are very clear in your Alaya consciousness. When the conditions mature one day, you will suffer the consequences, and it will be bitter. Because the laws of karma know exactly who you are targeting.

If it were an unknown spirit or person with no influence, the evil consequences would be less severe, but you would still have to pay the price, as you have done wrong by interfering with them. But if the target is a Buddha with immense influence, who pervades the entire Dharma-realm and empty space, if you hurt even a hair on their body, you will be in endless trouble. This is very reasonable, because the Buddha can save immeasurable and boundless beings, yet you are using magic against him.

Of course, Namo Amituofo cannot be harmed, but Practitioner Su still has a physical body. Although this body is heavily protected, it is still a physical body. If the demon crowd using magic is powerful enough, Practitioner Su can still feel the suffering. Practitioner Su can be Greatly Compassionate and not hold it against you, but instead send you to the Western Dharma-Nature Land to receive the education and cultivation of the Buddha’s teachings, washing away the filth on your body and turning you into a bright soul.

This is true; I never imagined I would have such a day. Because of this, these beings or people have much less interference from demon crowds, and naturally, their lives are more peaceful, and their bodies are more at ease.

The stronger the demon attacking the body, the greater the damage to the body, and the mental damage is also very heavy. It will not only harm and interfere with oneself, but also harm and interfere with the lives around them. The people around them will also be hurt, especially the family members or other people who accompany them.

Alright, I will share my experience here for today. If there is anything that needs to be added, I will bring it up again.

Namo Amituofo.

Mo Zhaoyun"