The Collapse of an Ancient Demon's Power

This is a record of an interview with Mo Tian, a Primordial Demon who existed approximately 3.92 trillion years ago. He sought Chao Du at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre in Australia and now resides in the Western Land of Dharma Nature. Recorded by the chief writer, Shi Fajing, on February 5, 2025.

Mo Tian speaks:

"Namo Amituofo. I am Mo Tian. The cultivation of demonic power requires vast amounts of time, yet its destruction can happen in a single, fleeting instant. I spent 3.92 trillion years painstakingly increasing my power, honing my skills, and building my strength. Now, it is all destroyed. It is all gone. In this moment, I must admit that my heart is in pain; I am deeply wounded.

I initially thought I would go mad or lose my mind because of this, but that did not happen. The reason is that there is a force of stability here in the Western Land of Dharma Nature. Even when my body and mind are in agony, this power keeps me in a stable state. It prevents my demon nature from erupting, and instead, my demon nature is being continuously weakened.

A Stranger in My Own Skin

I have suddenly become a stranger to myself, because the way I am now is so vastly different from my original form. I can hardly believe that the person standing here is me; it feels as if I am an entirely different entity.

Facing such a transformation, I have no other choice but to accept it and slowly adapt. It has been three or four days since I entered the Western Land of Dharma Nature, and I feel that things are gradually changing. Beyond just becoming more accustomed to this place, I am slowly discovering that the me who is being purified is perhaps the true me after all.

Before I was sent to the Western Land of Dharma Nature, I did not have a fixed place to stay. I wandered everywhere, searching for resources I could utilise. At the same time, I found many 'demon children and grandchildren' who were willing to follow me, making them my subordinates and simultaneously strengthening my influence.

The Arrogance of Power

I have always been extremely confident in myself. Whatever I wanted, I was certain I could obtain, and I did it through my own abilities without needing help from any other demons. I had the means to get everything I desired.

In these 3.92 trillion years of being a demon, I never encountered an opponent whose abilities were on par with mine. Most of the time, I was the one who emerged victorious. The key to my easy victories was my ability to observe the mental notes of my opponents—to see exactly what was in their hearts.

When I could grasp an opponent's heart, no matter how they tried to change, they could never escape my control. So, when I encountered Practitioner Su, I wanted to use the same method to deal with him. I aimed to lock onto Practitioner Su's heart and master his every move. But what was the result? The result was that I failed completely.

The Mystery of No-Mind

I laboured for so long, and the reason for my final failure was that I could not grasp Practitioner Su's heart. I remember the day I saw him; I used a great many techniques, constantly probing his heart. But no matter how I investigated or observed, I could feel nothing. I could not grasp it. I did not give up; I continued to probe deeper and deeper, only to discover that I could not find Practitioner Su's heart at all.

This event shocked me deeply. To me, whether a heart is tangible or intangible, every person or soul must have a core, and that core must be what directs everything. Yet, I could not find it in Practitioner Su, which meant that Practitioner Su has 'no-mind.' But how could he achieve this state of no-mind? What does it feel like to have no-mind? I kept speculating and guessing. Because I had never encountered such a situation before, I was particularly curious.

At the time, my inability to understand how a person could have no-mind was based on my complete lack of understanding of Practitioner Su. I wondered how such a strange thing could happen. But later, as I came to understand him more and more, I finally grasped the reason why.

The Compassion Behind the Attack

I say that I came to understand him more because I kept testing him, and my method of testing was to continuously attack him with my demonic power. I tried casting magic from the Dharma Realm, and I also went to him personally to use my magic. Both methods were bound to have an effect on his physical body. If Practitioner Su did not have this physical body, perhaps he would not have been subject to interference, because without a physical form, we would have no target for our attacks. But today is different; Practitioner Su has a real physical body on Earth, so when we wanted to deal with him, we could launch attacks against his flesh. Such attacks were bound to have an effect on that body.

According to my predictions, if I just kept attacking him like that, Practitioner Su would surely surrender. Therefore, I kept challenging his bottom line. However, the more I challenged him, the more I discovered that Practitioner Su was not the person I had perceived him to be. What do I mean by this?

At the beginning, in my ignorance, I treated Practitioner Su as no different from other humans on Earth, with the only exception being that he could Chao Du sentient beings. That understanding was truly superficial, but I admit that was all I knew at the time. However, when I observed him more carefully and seriously, I discovered that all of Practitioner Su's actions were actually born out of compassion for sentient beings—true, great compassion. This really left me confused. How could his actions be out of compassion for beings? I had thought he was deliberately attacking us demons.

Once I had a different perspective on his actions, I began to observe him from different angles. This process allowed me to understand him better, and it was through this that I discovered that Practitioner Su had been 'no-mind' from the very beginning. His no-mind was why I could not grasp his heart; I did not know his true inner thoughts. But now, all of that is unimportant, because I already know that Practitioner Su is simply saving sentient beings with no-mind.

The Destruction of My Secret Empire

In the Dharma Realm, I have seen Practitioner Su many times. Every time his Dharma Body enters the Dharma Realm, it is to save sentient beings, helping those in the Dharma Realm to find liberation—including us demons.

I am a demon who thinks a great deal. Through thinking, I clarify many confusing matters, and through thinking, I know what my next step should be. For me, this process of thinking is very important; it is something I need.

Therefore, when Practitioner Su first appeared in the Dharma Realm, the first time I met him, I was thinking: what exactly is Goodness, and what is evil? How are the definitions of Good and evil distinguished? To me, I did not think I was very evil, but in the eyes of others, they might think I was guilty of heinous crimes, unforgivable, and that I should suffer retribution and be severely punished.

But I truly did not think so. I felt that I was just living my life in my own space, doing what I wanted to do, and protecting everything I wanted to protect. I felt that was all there was to it.

Later, I kept internalising the sutras Practitioner Su spoke, and I kept using many methods to reflect and adjust. I wanted to find an answer. Through a very long series of experiences, I sincerely searched for the true reality I wanted to know, and I discovered that everything is actually 'nothing.' Everything is fundamentally 'nothing.' It is only because we care in the moment that we grasp onto things, but when I let go of those attachments, nothing exists at all.

I had especially grasped onto this 'self.' I cared very much about this 'self,' so I made many efforts, all for the sake of this 'self.' But I did not realise that, in many cases, I was actually harming myself for the sake of this 'self.' Because I performed many extreme actions, produced more radical thoughts, and fell into more complex, negative internal thinking.

At the same time, my heart perhaps became more attached, more evil, and more full of my own ideas, making it harder to be subdued.

Practitioner Su's Dharma Body entering the Dharma Realm was a huge change for us, and for many demons, it was a major breakthrough. This breakthrough changed many of our inherent ideas; we were forced to make changes we had no choice but to make.

For example, that day I had just left my demon palace to go find some amusement. Sometimes, when I was bored, I wanted something different to happen to make things interesting. But I searched and searched, and I could not find anything fresh. Everything looked the same; it was meaningless.

Just as I decided to return to my demon palace, I suddenly felt that something was wrong. The feeling of something being wrong came from the fact that many of the spaces I was familiar with had all disappeared. Many of those spaces were places I frequented. Different spaces had different functions for me. Some were used to control spirits, some were my own resting spaces, some were for training, and some were for casting magic. Many different spaces existed in different places; other demons could not see them, only I could see them, and only I could enter them. So, no other demon knew what I was doing, including my demon children and grandchildren. It was equivalent to my secret, and it was also my secret recipe for increasing my demonic power.

However, that day, when I used my magic and wanted to enter one of my training spaces, I was suddenly shocked to find that my training space was gone! I could not believe it. I searched everywhere, and I even used the demonic power I had stored deep within, but I still could not find it.

I continued to search for my other spaces. So many of them had almost all disappeared. This left me incredibly surprised and puzzled. Where on earth did they go?

In the end, I never found them back, but I later discovered that the reason those spaces disappeared was because of Practitioner Su. When Practitioner Su's Dharma Body passed through those spaces of mine, his golden light shone everywhere, taking my spaces away. The sentient beings who were trapped in those spaces were also rescued. At that moment, I was truly furious. I felt, how could he so easily do such a thing to me? I was quite displeased, but I did not face Practitioner Su directly at that time; instead, I prepared to return to my own demon palace.

However, just as I was about to return to my demon palace, I discovered that my demon palace was also gone. Where did it go? I started searching everywhere again, and again, I could not find it. It was only through other demons that I learned my demon palace had also been destroyed by Practitioner Su."

Namo Amituofo.

At that time, my anger truly reached its peak. I felt, how could such a thing happen? How could such a situation possibly manifest within the Dharma Realm? Yet, it was truly happening. Many things are simply beyond our control.

Later, I heard many old demons saying that eons or even trillions of years ago, they had already foreseen this future—this very moment—and that such events would unfold. But then what? At that time, they were unable to stop it. Things happened exactly as they had predicted.

The Shock of Transformation

What I want to say is that the appearance of Practitioner Su gave us a massive shock, and in a way, I have learned a great deal. I do not know what other Demon Kings, old demons, or ancient demons think, but for me, I feel that my transformation has been profound. If I were to clearly explain what has changed, I could not list every single detail, but I can provide a few simple examples.

For instance, when I went to where Practitioner Su was—the place where his physical body resides—I saw an immeasurable and boundless number of sentient beings all seeking Spiritual Deliverance from him. At that moment, my realization was: 'So, a person's practice can reach such a level that so many beings know to seek him out for deliverance.'

In my past, I was also a practitioner, but in the end, I chose to give up because I felt I could not succeed, and I became disappointed with the Buddha’s teachings. Now, arriving here at Practitioner Su’s side, seeing his practice, seeing how he helps so many beings, and seeing so many Buddhas and Bodhisattvas coming to assist in this salvation, I suddenly woke up. I realized that my initial thoughts were not correct. However, because I did not encounter the right Causal Conditions back then—no one to help me or wake me up—I remained stuck in my own rigid thinking, followed my own concepts, and eventually gave up on everything.

The Price of Regret

Do you ask if I regret it? I do not know how to answer that. Perhaps my personality was destined to suffer like this before I could finally understand and wake up. But the price I paid was cycling through the cycle of rebirth for so many years, and creating so much negative karma.

However, I have now learned to be grateful to the Buddha. I am grateful for the Buddha’s incomparable compassion and tolerance toward us demons who have committed so many evil deeds. The Buddha never looks at how much negative karma we have created in the past or how much evil we have done. His compassion toward us remains unchanged. He treats us with the same great compassion and the same vast, magnanimous mind-capacity.

The negative karma we have created does not simply vanish, but under the Buddha’s compassionate tolerance, today we have returned to the study of the Buddha’s teachings, following, taking refuge in, and surrendering to the Buddha.

A Change of Heart

That day, when I arrived at Practitioner Su’s place, I truly still wanted to commit evil at first. I could not stand seeing the entire Dharma Realm change like this, and I was unwilling to accept that the achievements I had worked for over thousands of trillions of years had been destroyed by Practitioner Su just like that. So, I came here wanting to destroy, wanting this place to be annihilated as well.

I unleashed my demonic power about three times, but then I stopped. I ceased doing evil. I began to do nothing, just watching to see how Practitioner Su would deal with me in the end. The reason I chose to stop was, as I just mentioned, seeing so many beings coming here to seek Spiritual Deliverance. In their cycle of rebirth, it was so difficult for them to encounter this place, and I was merely insisting on my own feelings, wanting to destroy their hope. So, I stopped and began to look at this place from a different perspective. Ultimately, I discovered that I needed to change myself significantly.

A New Beginning

At this moment, I am already in the Western Land of Dharma Nature. Having listened to Practitioner Su’s Dharma talks for several days in a row, I am constantly repenting and reflecting on myself. I feel I have benefited greatly, and I have chosen to let go of the past and start everything anew.

There are many old demons and ancient demons here. When they saw that my Dharma appearance changed faster than theirs, they were all full of admiration and asked me what method I used to change so quickly. I smiled and answered them: 'I do not have better aptitude than you; I simply have a very pure heart inside. It is just that this heart had been stained for a long time, and now it has finally been cleansed again. Now that I have decided to change myself, this vow has allowed my Dharma appearance to begin to change, which is why you can see such an obvious difference.'

After hearing this, these old demons and ancient demons could likely understand that the difference between them and me lies in the fact that they do not yet have a clear desire to change, which is why there is no obvious transformation. Even so, I believe that they will change according to their own Causal Conditions and will eventually be able to grow.'

Mo Tian