From the Depths of Hell to the Western Pure Land

This is a record of an interview with the spirit of Yang Meili, who sought Chao Du at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre in Australia. She now resides in the Western Dharma-Nature Land. This account reflects upon her life, her past mistakes, and her eventual deliverance. Recorded by the chief writer, Venerable Hai Ze, on November 19, 2023.

Yang Meili speaks:

"Namo Amituofo. I am Yang Meili. I do not know how to express my apologies to you, Practitioner Su! You were so kind to us, yet I treated you in such a way. My tears have flowed from the moment I began to cry until I had no tears left, and then they started all over again. Every time I think about how I betrayed you in the past, left the Hsiang Kuang Centre, and slandered you, and then consider how you have shown me such immense compassion by guiding me to the Western Pure Land, I cannot help but weep again.

I never, ever imagined that I would end up dying from illness like this. I thought everything I was doing was right, but I never expected that in the end, the person I harmed the most was myself. Everything I did in the past was to protect myself, to ensure I did not suffer a loss, and to make sure I did not follow the wrong person and miss my chance at rebirth in the Western Pure Land. Who would have known that the reality was the exact opposite of what I thought? It was precisely because I left you that I became ill and could not reach the Western Pure Land on my own."

The Humble Beginnings of Hsiang Kuang

"When I was with you, the place where we practiced together was called the Hsiang Kuang Room, not the large-scale Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre that exists today. Everything you see now was built by Practitioner Su through immense hardship. This is the opportunity Namo Amituofo has given everyone to be reborn in the Western Pure Land.

My acquaintance with Practitioner Su began over a decade ago. This time, after I passed away from lung disease, Practitioner Zhuo and Chen Suqing learned of it and helped me perform Chao Du at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre. I am now in the state of a spirit. After they performed seven sessions of Chao Du for me, Practitioner Su guided my spirit to the Western Pure Land during a Thrice Yearning Ceremony. I am now speaking to you from the Western Pure Land. I want to remind everyone: I am a spirit, but you still possess a human body. You must cherish this human body well; once you lose it, you can do nothing. Since I died of illness and was still able to be guided by Practitioner Su to the Western Pure Land, I am truly grateful to Chen Suqing and Practitioner Zhuo."

A Heart Heavy with Guilt

"Logically, I should be describing the magnificence and dignity of the Western Pure Land to everyone. To be able to come to this place is an encounter difficult to find in millions of years. I should be speaking with an excited heart, but right now, my feelings of apology and shame toward Practitioner Su far outweigh the joy of being in the Western Pure Land. I must speak these words from my heart first so that I can finally let go.

I first met Practitioner Su at the Hsiang Kuang Room in Shiding, Taiwan, about fifteen years ago. At that time, Practitioner Su was giving classes to everyone in the Buddha hall upstairs in her home. She was so dedicated; the hall even had a classroom. The content of the lessons was the sutras taught by Venerable Master Chin Kung. Brother Lai would transcribe them into text, print them into books, and give one to each person. We would take turns reading, and Practitioner Su would explain them to us. Everyone felt such Dharma joy. Later, Practitioner Su began conducting Thrice Yearning Ceremonies, leading us all in practice. Back then, I even volunteered to buy groceries because I saw how hard Practitioner Su was working. I thought, 'I will buy the groceries!' I hoped to help her so she would not have so much to do—she was just too busy! She wanted to ensure everyone could hear the sutras taught by Venerable Master Chin Kung, as some people might not have understood them or heard them before."

The True Practitioner

"She provided the money, the effort, and the venue, all out of her own pocket. She would go buy the groceries, come back, cook for everyone, and then teach the classes. She held the first class at four in the morning, and then classes in the afternoon and evening. It was incredibly exhausting. We all felt filled with Dharma joy; the lessons were so practical, and everyone was full of hope for rebirth in the Western Pure Land. We believed Practitioner Su was a true practitioner, so we followed her to study the Pure Land teachings.

After she came to Australia—back when it was still the Hsiang Kuang Room—and returned to Taiwan, she began to have the ability to invite spirits. People's hearts began to waver, and some even started to slander her and leave. I truly regret acting that way back then; it was so wrong! We really did not have enough faith in the Buddha. Only someone like Practitioner Su, who could believe in the Buddha so firmly, could achieve what she has today. This is the achievement she deserves. Her ability to save immeasurable and boundless beings and guide them to the Western Pure Land is something she achieved step by step, one footprint at a time. We all believe this now."

The Influence of Demons and Slander

"At the time, we all thought it was strange: how could she have the ability to invite spirits after just one trip to the Hsiang Kuang Centre in Australia? At that time, Jiang Yuchan could also invite spirits with Practitioner Su. During the Thrice Yearning Ceremony, I heard that Venerable Hailiang was also in the Western Dharma-Nature Land, and that was when I realized Venerable Hailiang was Jiang Yuchan. She later became a monastic at the temple. Back then, there were no monastics; we were all lay practitioners. After returning to Shiding from Australia, the ancestral masters who descended from the Western Pure Land helped everyone by inviting spirits out of Practitioner Su, as well as inviting the karmic creditors out of the bodies of many fellow practitioners. That was when Jiang Yuchan helped everyone invite their spirits out of Practitioner Su. From that moment on, Practitioner Su began to suffer on behalf of the beings. She reported some of the situations regarding the spirit invitations to the Venerable Master, but unexpectedly, the word that spread was, 'Practitioner Su is using supernatural powers,' and 'Just chant the Buddha's name honestly.' This terrified us. For those studying the Pure Land, this was a great injury, and we never expected it to happen to Practitioner Su. Everyone began to gossip about the spirit invitations, saying, 'How could this be? Who would come? Who did she invite to the Western Pure Land?' A wave of criticism emerged. Gao Xiuying, in particular, did not believe these things and began to lose faith in Practitioner Su. Everyone left the Hsiang Kuang Room and stopped contacting the fellow practitioners there."

The Conflict of Faith

"Actually, I was very conflicted in my heart. I believed Practitioner Su was not the type of person to use supernatural powers. That is what spirit mediums do; why would she do such a thing? Practitioner Su is a lay practitioner of Mahayana Buddhism; how could such a dedicated and compassionate person do such a thing? But because the Venerable Master said to 'honestly chant the Buddha's name,' and these voices were coming from the Pure Land societies, we had no choice but to believe it. We had always trusted the Venerable Master. If this rumor were false, the Venerable Master would surely have come out to stop it. We knew the Venerable Master had always trusted and cared for Practitioner Su, so why would this happen? But there was no action from the Venerable Master's side, and even these voices continued to spread, so we believed the Venerable Master, even though in our hearts we did not want to leave the Hsiang Kuang Room.

Now that I can look back at the past, I realize we were all being controlled by demon crowds without even knowing it. We stopped believing Practitioner Su was the person we knew and started to believe the rumors. We still held very traditional, conservative views about demon crowds, unlike now, where I see that Practitioner Su at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre is so clear about the demon crowds and has the ability to use her Dharma Body to save and subdue them because she has realized her true nature. At that time, we did not know Practitioner Su had this ability or that she had already realized her true nature. Looking back now, she must have realized it long ago; she just did not show it. Anyway, when we were inviting spirits, we heard that Practitioner Su claimed to have realized her true nature. Namo Amituofo has indicated that Practitioner Su has realized her true nature, and she did not claim it herself. We thought that with her ability, she could realize her true nature, but she would not have told everyone in that way. It was truly difficult for us to accept such a huge change, which is why we left. Practitioner Su, we were truly... we were truly too wrong! Now that I think about it, how could we have had such little faith in you after you treated us so sincerely? We simply could not withstand the news coming from the Venerable Master's side. That is why Gao Xiuying also left the Hsiang Kuang Room at that time."

The Consequences of Slander

"Actually, after we left, we still came into contact with the Buddha's teachings and listened to the Venerable Master's lectures, but we only occasionally heard news about the Hsiang Kuang Room. We did not dare to get involved, and we even thought, 'Oh, it is a good thing we got out early.' Now, there are still several fellow practitioners following Practitioner Su at the Hsiang Kuang Room. Looking back, we were truly possessed by demons, and many karmic creditors had manifested. We could see some demon crowds, and they were truly happy to control us, making us think bad thoughts about Practitioner Su, see her in a bad light, and eventually leave the Hsiang Kuang Room. It was because Practitioner Su had guided the Demon King Mara to the Western Pure Land, and what she did was too unbelievable. The demon crowds did not want such things to continue. They probably knew we were the weak points—that our hearts were not firm enough—so it was easy to make us believe the Venerable Master and stand on his side to strike at Practitioner Su so she would stop the Chao Du. So, when the news came from that side and we believed it, we never contacted Practitioner Su again. I never expected that Practitioner Su would be so compassionate that, knowing I had passed away, she would still be willing to let bygones be bygones and pull my spirit up from hell.

I never thought that as someone who studied Buddhism, I would end up reporting to hell after I died. Actually, when I was sick, my soul was already being dragged to hell to be punished. Now that I am in the Western Dharma-Nature Land, I have seen this. At that time, I kept crying and shouting, 'Practitioner Su, save me! Practitioner Su, save me!' In my heart, I truly felt that only Practitioner Su could save me. It is shameful to say, but because I slandered Practitioner Su, I was taken to the Tongue-Pulling Hell; because I followed the wrong person, I was taken to the Eye-Gouging Hell; because Practitioner Su treated us so well and I hurt her, I was heartless and had to go to the Heart-Gouging Hell. These hells... oh, they are truly unbearable; it is so painful, so painful. Therefore, I advise everyone here to believe in Practitioner Su. Do not speak recklessly. If it is not the truth, do not open your mouth, especially since those who study Buddhism incur even heavier sins. In fact, we had heard the Buddha's words and the teachings Namo Amituofo gave everyone. We could accept them and believed they were the Buddha's teachings. The Venerable Master also believed the Buddha's words. At that time, the Buddha told us that even if we did not believe, we should not slander, as the karmic retribution is very painful. Yet we let it go in one ear and out the other, and when the situation arose, we were all defeated."

A Plea for Truth

"Regarding the slander I directed at Practitioner Su, I said, 'How could Practitioner Su be such a person!' I even called Gao Xiuying, and the two of us called other fellow practitioners to persuade them to leave the Hsiang Kuang Room. Practitioner Su, I am sorry. I was truly wrong! I was truly wrong! I should not have treated you that way. So, I entered the Tongue-Pulling Hell, and I have nothing to say; this is the retribution I deserve. It is very, very painful. I urge everyone: please do not slander Practitioner Su again! When I was guided by Practitioner Su to the Western Dharma-Nature Land at the temple, I heard that even after the Venerable Master passed away, the Pure Land societies were still saying Practitioner Su was using supernatural powers. What a sin! What a sin! If you continue to say this, how can you avoid the Tongue-Pulling Hell? I was just a lay practitioner seeking the Dharma, and saying such things already landed me in the Tongue-Pulling Hell. How much more so for the venerable masters or monastics in the academies or societies? Can you avoid the retribution? Can you avoid hell? Here, I, Yang Meili, advise everyone: Practitioner Su is a true practitioner, and the Namo Amituofo here is the real Namo Amituofo. Otherwise, how could Practitioner Su have guided me to the Western Pure Land in the blink of an eye during the Thrice Yearning Ceremony? There were also sixty excellent jailers selected from hell who were guided by Practitioner Su into the Western Pure Land, and there was even an interview with a representative of the jailers. Can the temple's ability be fake?"

The Beauty of the Western Pure Land

"The Western Pure Land is too good, too beautiful. Moreover, since coming to the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre, we have been bathed in the Buddha-light at all times. I have also seen the countenance of Namo Amituofo. I never saw the Buddha while I was alive, but now that I am here, I have seen Him. I cannot lie; lying is a great falsehood.

At that time, many of the fellow students who took classes together were very excellent. They also believed the Venerable Master and chose to leave Practitioner Su, and they are not here now. I think it is a great pity. Among them were many fellow practitioners who had always identified with, supported, and protected Practitioner Su, including Gao Xiuying, as well as the Asia President, Lay Practitioner Chen Baoying, who is truly dignified, and the one who owned a lot of real estate, Lay Practitioner Qiu Qingsong! These two spent time with us—or rather, practiced together with us—because they would travel between the country and abroad. Sometimes they would go to Hong Kong to find the Venerable Master and follow him, and sometimes they would come to Australia or return to Taiwan to take classes with Practitioner Su. Everyone was filled with Dharma joy."

The Impermanence of Life

"The Hsiang Kuang Room is different now. I heard that because Namo Amituofo has descended from the West and abides here, the Hsiang Kuang Room was renamed the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre according to the Buddha's wishes. There are also several monks and nuns, all of whom look very dignified. Of course, there are people I know who have become monastics. Of those I know, only two remain: Venerable Hai Ze, who is interviewing me, and Practitioner Zhuo Shuling, who was also one of the lay practitioners practicing with us back then. I have not seen the others. Truly, the world is full of changes, and life is impermanent. I myself am one of those impermanent ones, now speaking to everyone as a spirit. And what about the many fellow practitioners? Some are still in Shiding, while others left the Hsiang Kuang Room during that wave of rumors about supernatural powers.

Practitioner Su is like true gold that does not fear the fire. It is truly a matter of closing the coffin to reach a final verdict. I thought I was right, but I was wrong in a complete mess. I really did not understand what it meant to be controlled until I heard Practitioner Su teaching the sutras here and heard so many interviews. I also saw the Thrice Yearning Ceremony with so many beings—immeasurable and boundless beings—coming here to seek Chao Du. Practitioner Su also saves immeasurable and boundless beings and subdues immeasurable and boundless demon crowds into the Dharma-Nature Land. Especially seeing the Buddha-light of the Western Three Saints shining upon everyone, how could I not believe that the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre has Namo Amituofo? I believe completely that the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre has Namo Amituofo."

A Final Warning

"I, Yang Meili, can only repent and repent again. I contracted lung disease because I did not practice well, did not change my personality, and was found by my karmic creditors. I could not escape the path of birth, aging, sickness, and death, and the separation of the four elements. Although I once felt that I had contributed a little to the Buddha's teachings—even if I had no merit, I had at least put in the effort—I still became ill. Now, listening to the teachings, I know it is because I did not change my personality and committed such a great mistake by slandering and persuading other fellow practitioners to leave the Hsiang Kuang Room. Therefore, this illness was something I deserved. I did not transform my karma; I followed the path of karma, and how I should walk, how I should become ill, and how I should die was all according to karmic force. This is as it should be. Like people in the world, I walked the path of birth, aging, sickness, and death, and went to hell to suffer. This is not a place where those who study Buddhism should go. I went there because I deserved to, as the sin of slandering the Buddha is too great, too great. Yang Meili urges everyone: once you have entered, do not leave again, otherwise your end will be the same as mine. I now know that those who leave the temple do not end up well. When the Buddha is present, they do not know how to cherish Him, do not know how to hold onto the Buddha firmly, and once they leave the Buddha and do not change their personality, they must naturally suffer the karmic retribution.

Especially, do not slander! You must think about whether you have changed your personality. Is it because you did not change your personality that you were found by karmic creditors, controlled by demon crowds, and walked the old path of birth, aging, sickness, and death? You must not blame Practitioner Su or the Buddha; you should blame yourself. Otherwise, the laws of karma will lead you to hell, and it is very painful!"

A Hope for Others

"Practitioner Su, how is Gao Xiuying doing? I am sick like this myself, but one can imagine that her situation is not much better, because she is a spirit body—truly a spirit body, which is something we all know. Without the Buddha protecting us and without Practitioner Su teaching us, how could it be good? It is too hard to find a true Buddha now; it is we who did not know what was good for us and left the Buddha. This path of practice really requires meeting the right person to have any chance of achievement. Otherwise, it is as Practitioner Su says: Venerable Master Chin Kung taught the sutras for sixty years and only produced one person who realized her true nature—her. Fortunately, there is this one person, Practitioner Su, who has realized her true nature; otherwise, I, Yang Meili, would not be able to reach the Western Pure Land now. Also, sixty jailers were guided in during the Thrice Yearning Ceremony that day; it was truly amazing! Practitioner Su is truly amazing! I really admire you for your achievements today, but it is too late to say these things now. It is too late. Truly, one does not give up until one reaches the Yellow River. It is really like that.

Practitioner Su, I also once wanted to return to the Hsiang Kuang Room, but I could not let go of my pride. Days dragged on, and I dragged myself down. As for Chen Suqing? She has always been by your side. She has much more blessings than I do and can learn by your side. It is just that everyone's karma is very heavy. She has returned to Shiding now, and I hope she can practice well. I see that she has not changed her personality either; it is not simple to ask her to change, but at least she has not left you. She knows that only by following Practitioner Su well can she be saved. In this point, she is much stronger than those of us who left. Since she is at the temple, she will surely be guided by Practitioner Su to the Western Pure Land. I truly betrayed Practitioner Su, which is why I ended up like this today."

The Compassion of the Buddha

"Here, I see that one can help one's relatives, parents, or even... even Chao Du for dogs. These dogs are so lucky to be able to encounter Namo Amituofo performing Chao Du. Gao Xiuying left the temple; I do not know how she is doing now. Otherwise, she could have asked Practitioner Su to guide her family to the Western Pure Land. Seeing this here, it is a very common thing. During my days in the Western Dharma-Nature Land, I have also seen many, many beings guided by Practitioner Su to the Western Dharma-Nature Land.

Practitioner Su, Yang Meili repents to you again. Please forgive me, Practitioner Su. I should not have betrayed you, and even more so, I should not have slandered you behind your back. I truly followed the wrong person. Suffering in hell is what I deserved. I apologize to you again; I am truly sorry. But in my heart, I am very grateful to you, and also grateful to Namo Amituofo. Because Namo Amituofo has come here, Practitioner Su can exert her power and can so vigorously guide the deceased and so many beings from the spirit realm to the Western Pure Land. I, Yang Meili, can be considered to have great blessings to be saved from hell by Practitioner Su. I had never heard of such a thing before, nor did I know Practitioner Su had such ability. Such ability is too simple and too easy for Practitioner Su now. I had never even heard of any practitioner having the ability to do this before.

Therefore, everyone must, must believe what I say. Namo Amituofo is truly here—or rather, the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre has Namo Amituofo—and Practitioner Su truly has the ability to guide the deceased to be reborn in the Western Pure Land. Therefore, I urge the fourfold assembly at the Hsiang Kuang Pure Land Buddhist Centre: you must believe what you hear and see. Practitioner Su is truly a practitioner who has realized her true nature and has a Dharma Body. Moreover, she has truly subdued many demon crowds and helped them transform in the Western Dharma-Nature Land. These are my heartfelt feelings of admiration for Practitioner Su's achievements.

I also feel that what I did back then was truly wrong and destroyed my own future in studying Buddhism. I hope Namo Amituofo can forgive me. My spiritual obstacles are deep, and I was controlled by demon crowds, which is why I ended up in this state today.

As for Gao Xiuying, after all, we all spent some time together in the Hsiang Kuang Room. I hope she can turn back to the shore. As long as she is still alive and has a breath left, there is still a chance. Perhaps she has the intention to return; if she can return, she can be saved. If she does not return, there is no salvation. This is my own profound realization.

Lay Practitioner Hu Nini, I truly hope you see this article. This article is the truth. I am a spirit who has already reached the Western Pure Land; please believe what I say. You are a good person, and I truly hope you can turn back. Practitioner Su is truly not using supernatural powers; all of this is the ability of her realized true nature. Everyone has never encountered this before, which is why they misunderstood her.

I have finally said what I wanted to say. Here, I want to thank Namo Amituofo again, and I also want to thank Practitioner Su. I also thank Chen Suqing and Practitioner Zhuo Shuling for helping me perform Chao Du. I heard Practitioner Su say that even if you had not helped me perform Chao Du, Practitioner Su would have helped me. I am truly ashamed and grateful in my heart. Practitioner Su is truly too compassionate. To save one is to save one; to guide one is to guide one. That was what Practitioner Su told us when she was teaching classes back then. Practitioner Su was like that back then, and even now, she treats every being with the same heart. She is truly a Buddha! We believe, we truly believe in you, Namo Amituofo."

Yang Meili